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  #441  
Old 27.01.2011, 18:24
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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So homosexuals are born gay and don't make a decision?
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Yes. It's almost certainly genetic.
GG, perhaps the better answer is "Why should it matter?"

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Or are you in favour of those weird camps in America where they try to 'cure' gays and lesbians?
And the reason genetic disposition shouldn't matter is that those same weird camps might start advocating gene therapy! Makes you shudder to think where that could lead us.
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  #442  
Old 27.01.2011, 18:36
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

To be fair, homosexuality is not just a Catholic prejudice.

When I was younger, I tried to join an Evangelist Christian group - but the shock when I said my brother was gay....oh dear!!
They even gave me leaflets detailing why it was evil and sinful.

I didn't join.
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  #443  
Old 27.01.2011, 19:01
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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GG, perhaps the better answer is "Why should it matter?"


And the reason genetic disposition shouldn't matter is that those same weird camps might start advocating gene therapy! Makes you shudder to think where that could lead us.
Then you get into the whole messy area of "what is normal" I shudder to think what some people could decide .......
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  #444  
Old 27.01.2011, 20:13
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Then you get into the whole messy area of "what is normal"
What's normal? That's a good question isn't it?

All I would say is that when it comes to religion, sexuality or politics, "freedom of expression" is a hard won civil liberty. Once you take it for granted and veer towards the extremes, be it repression or over-expression, then you inevitably invite a reaction.
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  #445  
Old 27.01.2011, 20:16
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Nev is the voice of reason.
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  #446  
Old 27.01.2011, 20:31
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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What's normal?
Nev is the voice of reason.
Don't go there, really don't go there!!!

We already know where that road leads...

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  #447  
Old 27.01.2011, 21:46
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Civilised countries?

And you accuse Roman Catholics of being judgmental?
It was quite intentional. I'm quite happy with calling countries where people are imprisoned or executed for their sexuality barbaric. The UK used to be barbaric not so long ago too. It's definitely more of a term of abuse for me though rather than a considered sociological, political or historical judgement.
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  #448  
Old 27.01.2011, 23:03
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Respect for the Catholics in this slamdown:

http://wizardstimelordsandstarkids.t...rom-each-other
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  #449  
Old 28.01.2011, 06:08
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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The UK used to be barbaric not so long ago
Used to be?

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Old 28.01.2011, 06:14
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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The UK used to be barbaric not so long ago too.
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Used to be?


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  #451  
Old 28.01.2011, 10:08
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Mind you . . . I am surprised that you even have to ask the question.
So is your negative attitude to the Cartholic church applicable to all organised religions that have non-liberal views? If so, I think you've spent so much time and effort so far, you should make it clear that you are unhappy (or angry) with any denomination or faith that for example doesn't tolerate homosexual activity amongst its membership and not solely the 'bigoted' Catholic Church.

I realise that it's a valid point. But it's maybe a missed opportunity to single out the Catholic church on this point (when the are so many issues that seem to contrvene modern Western social views). What about gays in the military in 'civilised' countires for example?

Perhaps we/you could discuss other Catholic specific issues like divorce, tran-substantiation, celebate clergy, the ordination of women, confession, Papal infalibilty etc etc better related to this thread.

But in modern times despite its faults (who hasn't got any faults?) it can be a source of comfort that the church sticks to its guns and also sticks up for some of the neglected on the planet without a voice. Although this can also be levelled at other religious and non religious bodies.
The British MP who I admire in many ways Tony Benn once said, he'd,"rather be a signpost than a weather vane."

"Just a wee thought."
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Old 28.01.2011, 12:02
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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So is your negative attitude to the Cartholic church applicable to all organised religions that have non-liberal views? If so, I think you've spent so much time and effort so far, you should make it clear that you are unhappy (or angry) with any denomination or faith that for example doesn't tolerate homosexual activity amongst its membership and not solely the 'bigoted' Catholic Church.

I realise that it's a valid point. But it's maybe a missed opportunity to single out the Catholic church on this point (when the are so many issues that seem to contrvene modern Western social views). What about gays in the military in 'civilised' countires for example?

Perhaps we/you could discuss other Catholic specific issues like divorce, tran-substantiation, celebate clergy, the ordination of women, confession, Papal infalibilty etc etc better related to this thread.

But in modern times despite its faults (who hasn't got any faults?) it can be a source of comfort that the church sticks to its guns and also sticks up for some of the neglected on the planet without a voice. Although this can also be levelled at other religious and non religious bodies.
The British MP who I admire in many ways Tony Benn once said, he'd,"rather be a signpost than a weather vane."

"Just a wee thought."
As I explained before I was specifically mentioning homosexuality in regard to Carlos R's claim that it was a tolerant religion. It's the obvious counter-example.

I'm not anti-Catholic per se, rather against the intolerant elements with it and those who follow that dogma. And yes, I'm against intolerance from any institutution whether religious or not . . . I'm not going to talk about those in this thread though.

As for transubstantiation . . . I haven't cared about that since since I studied the Reformation for my A Level History.
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  #453  
Old 28.01.2011, 12:06
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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I'm against intolerance
Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that?

What does being "against intolerance" actually entail?
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  #454  
Old 28.01.2011, 12:20
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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What does being "against intolerance" actually entail?

I'm intolerant of intolerance, too
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  #455  
Old 28.01.2011, 13:02
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that?

What does being "against intolerance" actually entail?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_intolerance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_intolerance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination

Well understood concepts.
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  #456  
Old 28.01.2011, 13:44
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Yes, I understand what intolerance is, thank you very much.

I'd be grateful, however, if you could explain what being "against intolerance" actually entails.
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  #457  
Old 28.01.2011, 14:46
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Yes, I understand what intolerance is, thank you very much.

/I'd be grateful, however, if you could explain what being "against intolerance" actually entails.
What he could mean is that he is against intolerance inspired or commanded, or whatever, by religion. What else could it mean?
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  #458  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:01
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Yes, I understand what intolerance is, thank you very much.

I'd be grateful, however, if you could explain what being "against intolerance" actually entails.
I'll argue against it, vote against it whenever the opportunity presents itself and will not join organisations which display it.

Is this yet another of DB's 'you're a desk jockey, so your opinion is worthless' things?
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  #459  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:09
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I'll argue against it, vote against it whenever the opportunity presents itself and will not join organisations which display it.

Is this yet another of DB's 'you're a desk jockey, so your opinion is worthless' things?
Lol. You still aren't answering his q.
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  #460  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:10
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Lol. You still aren't answering his q.
Er, yes I did!
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