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  #61  
Old 18.01.2011, 15:40
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

This is exactly why I ****ing hate any type of religion. People arguing about some mystical what ifs and what nots.
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  #62  
Old 18.01.2011, 15:41
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Could a muslim be a muslim if they didn't think Muhammed was a prophet?
That was your question.

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It would be impossible to believe that Mohammad wasn't a prophet since the definition of prophete itself is to be the one who brings the news, the ideas, the illumination...
My answer.

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Well apparently, it is possible, as the whole world isn't Muslim. So he's not a prophet from god to all. If you mean a broader definition, then we're all prophets.
And here it is you who try to create confusion.

You asked me a question on muslim, I answered you from a muslim point of you and you project this with a refutation on the whole believers of all religions, or not.
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  #63  
Old 18.01.2011, 15:44
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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What happens if the woman gets Parkinson's disease again?
Could someone attempt to answer my question?
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  #64  
Old 18.01.2011, 15:45
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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I believe the word you are looking for is "dumb"
This is why I called you TROLL. Look at the amount of stupidity you say compare of intelligent ones. And look how people do their best to ignore your stupids comments all over the forum...
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Old 18.01.2011, 15:52
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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No, no one has to prove anything. That is the whole point of believing. The guy who does believe doesn't give a crap if you do or not and he certainly doesn't have to prouve to you why he does so.
That would be all fine and dandy if these religions didn't have such an aggressive recruiting policy, didn't teach it to their kids as the 'truth' and didn't demand or require others to respect debunked bronze age myths as 'science'.

I don't think anybody would mind if a guy quietly and respectfully decided not to eat some sort of food, decided to hop on one leg at 3pm every day and wanted to wear a 'special' hat. The problem arises when 1000,000,000 people ask that guy to tell them how to live, that’s when we get religion.
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  #66  
Old 18.01.2011, 15:54
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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You asked me a question on muslim, I answered you from a muslim point of you and you project this with a refutation on the whole believers of all religions, or not.
It wasn't meant like that, it was really a point about whether christians could be christians if they didn't think that jesus was the son of god.

As a point though, you said it was impossible to say that mohammed wasn't a prophet, but actually, it's perfectly possible, but not to someone who is muslim, which is kind of my point. It's what makes a muslim a muslim.

A christian would say it is impossible not to belive that Jesus was the son of god, if they said anything else, they're really an agnostic.

Of course, as an outsider, I could be wrong in some strange way only comprehensible to theologists.
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Old 18.01.2011, 15:59
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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This is why I called you TROLL. Look at the amount of stupidity you say compare of intelligent ones. And look how people do their best to ignore your stupids comments all over the forum...
That is really rich coming from you. Based on the little time I have spent on this forum I think I have done well. I get the impression your are the forum busybody with nothing better to do. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

Unless you are spokesperson for every forum member I would suggest zipping it.

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  #68  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:00
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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... I think there are thousands of sects of christianity but pretty sure they all think jesus was the son of god.
Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't. Nor do many followers of Liberal Christian thinking.

( Liberal in this context doesn't mean politically or socially liberal - it's a theological stance. For example, in the debate about women's ordination in the Anglican church, there were plenty of "liberals" agin it ).
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  #69  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:05
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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That would be all fine and dandy if these religions didn't have such an aggressive recruiting policy, didn't teach it to their kids as the 'truth' and didn't demand or require others to respect debunked bronze age myths as 'science'.

I don't think anybody would mind if a guy quietly and respectfully decided not to eat some sort of food, decided to hop on one leg at 3pm every day and wanted to wear a 'special' hat. The problem arises when 1000,000,000 people ask that guy to tell them how to live, that’s when we get religion.
I agree with you. But the problem also is people tend to take the religion as a group and stop to see people as individual. Not all human being in that group believe and act to the same level, same degree. So maybe, the difference here between you and me, is that you see religion as a whole and I see religion as an individual belief.

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It wasn't meant like that, it was really a point about whether christians could be christians if they didn't think that jesus was the son of god.

As a point though, you said it was impossible to say that mohammed wasn't a prophet, but actually, it's perfectly possible, but not to someone who is muslim, which is kind of my point. It's what makes a muslim a muslim.

A christian would say it is impossible not to belive that Jesus was the son of god, if they said anything else, they're really an agnostic.

Of course, as an outsider, I could be wrong in some strange way only comprehensible to theologists.
I wish I knew better. I am having this discution with the best of what I know. But like you, I am not a professional in it. I know a good amount of 2 of those religions and what could be a possibility, etc. But I am not in an extremist, moderat or multi-faithist head. And even if I was in those head, the next extremist guy, or next moderat woman will have different view of the first ones.

My whole point was that each their own and lets just be respectful of that. To many people now refuse to give the minimum respect to others. And the minimum is to respect someone else's beliefs and way of seeing it. By not mocking each other, we give respects and less tensions between different groups.

Those who don't believe are too often the most extremists one to mock and disrespect others. And the worst is that they believe it is their rights to mock others.... One isn't worst than the others when it comes to lack of respect for what ever what they believe OR not.
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  #70  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:07
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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That is really rich coming from you. Based on the little time I have spent on this forum I think I have done well. I get the impression your are the forum busybody with nothing better to do. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

Unless you are spokesperson for every forum member I would suggest zipping it.
See? you talk a lot of someone who ''just'' arrived... you think you got it all...
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  #71  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:09
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

It does appear that Nil's argument falls in the category, 'My nonsense is better than that other guy's nonsense, but that other guy's nonsense has some interesting sub cases of nonsense I'd like to plug into my own nonsense'
You can make a number of accurate logical deductions from a false premis, but it is similar to building a castle on sand, and I think the tide is coming in on this one!
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  #72  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:11
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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It does appear that Nil's argument falls in the category, 'My nonsense is better than that other guy's nonsense, but that other guy's nonsense has some interesting sub cases of nonsense I'd like to plug into my own nonsense'
You can make a number of accurate logical deductions from a false premis, but it is similar to building a castle on sand, and I think the tide is coming in on this one!
Yes but this is YOUR opinion, and it isn't better then mine or the next guy. And you can't prove us that you are the one who is right!

Which is my whole argument.
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  #73  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:24
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Yes but this is YOUR opinion, and it isn't better then mine or the next guy. And you can't prove us that you are the one who is right!

Which is my whole argument.
Is it now? Did you not previously say that nobody had to prove anything? What if I chose to believe that pencils are people because I hear secret messages from tinkerbell when I play Disney's peter pan back-wards. Does a burning bush or a flying horse make more sense or less sense?
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Old 18.01.2011, 16:25
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Yes but this is YOUR opinion, and it isn't better then mine or the next guy. And you can't prove us that you are the one who is right!

Which is my whole argument.
It's not his opinion. Seems about right. Not all propositions are opinions. Think about it.
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  #75  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:25
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't. Nor do many followers of Liberal Christian thinking.
Just quickly reading wikipedia, Unitarians and Jehovas witness both believe Jesus was the son of god, but don't believe in the trinity(that Jesus is god, as well as god, and the holy spirit). Too much on LDS, but couldn't see anywhere that they didn't believe Jesus was the son of god.
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  #76  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:35
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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Is it now? Did you not previously say that nobody had to prove anything? What if I chose to believe that pencils are people because I hear secret messages from tinkerbell when I play Disney's peter pan back-wards. Does a burning bush or a flying horse make more sense or less sense?
You try to do your clever guy here. You play with words to fit what ever you want to pass.

Yes nobody has to prove anything. And yes, you can't prove it either.

You try to bring the conversation where it doesn't belong.

My points are simple: I believe people deserve respect and not being mocked for their beliefs. That it make sense or not to someone else. I don't care what you believe and I won't push my beliefs on you.

You are not better than joe blow who believe in something that you don't nor he isn't.
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  #77  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:39
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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That would be all fine and dandy if these religions didn't have such an aggressive recruiting policy, didn't teach it to their kids as the 'truth' and didn't demand or require others to respect debunked bronze age myths as 'science'.

I don't think anybody would mind if a guy quietly and respectfully decided not to eat some sort of food, decided to hop on one leg at 3pm every day and wanted to wear a 'special' hat. The problem arises when 1000,000,000 people ask that guy to tell them how to live, that’s when we get religion.
I am not so sure. I might be naive but maybe I give people more credit. All of the die hard catholics I know actually adhere to the dogma to a different degree, most of all make their own plan and just get the spirituality from religion, especially those who miss it in our normal "faithless" life. All the usual cliches, ie unprotected sex without a condom, etc are mostly a question of being dumb, irrespectively of religion. Something tells me people doing stupid stuff in the name of faith would be doing stupid stuff anyways. There are a bunch of not so intelligent proposals for people to follow, does not have to be religion. Those followers look for leadership, no matter who what and when, it is probably a question of catholicism or christianity being available and traditionally present, that make the followers follow that specific church and take the orders to the minute details. It sounds offensive, but I mean the opposite. I wouldn't blame faith for some personal mishaps, or for the fact that we as humankind happen to have a certain percentage of people who enjoy leadership, if it also has some degree of spirituality. I wouldn't look down to those people and call them sheeple. This would exist no matter of religion. Think, monarchies, kingdoms, political leadership, etc. which often also gives pretty strange tips on how to live one's life, sans the spirituality, but often motivated by cash or power. If religion is just another way to organize people, on some principles, it will always make visible those faults that are inherently in people. But the spirituality is there, and that is why so many people follow and forgive (or disobey) the quirky rules.
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  #78  
Old 18.01.2011, 16:43
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

Cuddly with Muslims - what does that mean?
What is the 'true faith'? Like beauty, very much in the eyes of the beholder.
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Old 18.01.2011, 16:50
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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But surely the Corollary must follow that neither Islam nor Christianity can both be mutually acceptable, and surely the level of understanding of each others faith is that of believing (at least in some way) that the other is deluded.
That is so. But you can believe that you are right and by extension that the other is deluded but by choice not hark on about that but instead seek a constructive dialogue that focuses on things that unite rather than things that divide.

I may have a favourite football club and a favourite beer but that doesn't prevent me from being good friends with people who have a different favourite, even if on that one point we can never agree.
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Old 18.01.2011, 16:53
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Re: Pope on Fast Track to Sainthood

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I may have a favourite football club and a favourite beer but that doesn't prevent me from being good friends with people who have a different favourite, even if on that one point we can never agree.
And it does stop you to support an other team playing in an other game. Same sport, favorite team (without maybe some players you don't like in) and other teams you like (who may have some better players or not).
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