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  #521  
Old 12.02.2011, 23:43
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Arabs not ready for democracy because of deep causes.....like they don't deserve it.

A visionary post the least we can say.
Mr. Vertigo joined the bet - Uninvited, but never mind.

In the the post, Mr. Vertigo, I said "Hopefully the income & education levels will rise to allow the creation of democratic institutes and finally join the 20th century before the 21th ends."

So Mr. Vertigo - come back in a week.
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  #522  
Old 12.02.2011, 23:45
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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Go on then, say it...

"I wish Egypt and the people of Egypt peace and democratic success."

Or how about just stopping the sarcastic, acidic, negative comments about your fellow Arab Nations and neighbours ?
Enjoy your vacation from the forum. btw, I did say it - right here
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  #523  
Old 13.02.2011, 00:01
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Mr. Vertigo joined the bet - Uninvited, but never mind.

In the the post, Mr. Vertigo, I said "Hopefully the income & education levels will rise to allow the creation of democratic institutes and finally join the 20th century before the 21th ends."

So Mr. Vertigo - come back in a week.
Try to understand your own post and check your analysis of "non existing democracy in arab countries". Apparently since sept 2010 the level of income and education increased dramatically to make 2 revolutions possible and allow 2 countries to finally "join the 20th century".

Don't go for 1 week, your posts are so entertaining.
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  #524  
Old 13.02.2011, 00:09
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

He is entitled to a lack of trust, if I was an Israel I would be worried too. Arabs should show that they are more humane than the Europeans were in WWII and allow the Jews to live in peace within the 67 borders.

Think of all the trading possibilities - selling Israel a secure, high quality gas and oil service. Allowing Israel monitored access to the Suez canal. A more porous border, allowing free exchange of ideas and business. I can think of so many great things that can come form this. If the Middle-East were to become secure and democratic, then there would be improved policing of international waters, less need for nuclear stockpiles and massive armaments. AIPAC would not longer be under pressure to lobby.

My mind boggles with the endless possibilities!
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  #525  
Old 13.02.2011, 00:12
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Typical Vertigo - jumps uninvited into a bet, loses, and refuses to admit it.

The last events in Tunisia & Egypt were the first time there was a popular revolution in the Arab world - It's too early to tell if they will lead to a democracy or a dictatorship. I've said it before - we don't know if it's the 1917 or 1989 of the Arab world.
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  #526  
Old 13.02.2011, 00:18
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Typical Vertigo - jumps uninvited into a bet, loses, and refuses to admit it.

The last events in Tunisia & Egypt were the first time there was a popular revolution in the Arab world - It's too early to tell if they will lead to a democracy or a dictatorship. I've said it before - we don't know if it's the 1917 or 1989 of the Arab world.
did you hear the millions of tunisians and egyptians asking for democracy or not? Interesingly, Israel and Palestinian Authority are the only ones not so "happy" about the change taking place in egypt. Very enlightening.
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  #527  
Old 13.02.2011, 00:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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did you hear the millions of tunisians and egyptians asking for democracy or not? Interesingly, Israel and Palestinian Authority are the only ones not so "happy" about the change taking place in egypt. Very enlightening.
I asked you to respect your commitments - it didn't happen.
The Egyptian & Tunisian are asking for democracy - I don't know if they will get it.

Israel (and Egypt) has a lot to lose if Egypt turns hostile (think Iran 1979) - I said it before, you should know this by now (seeing you memorize my old posts).
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  #528  
Old 13.02.2011, 00:30
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I asked you to respect your commitments - it didn't happen.
The Egyptian & Tunisian are asking for democracy - I don't know if they will get it.

Israel (and Egypt) has a lot to lose if Egypt turns hostile (think Iran 1979) - I said it before, you should know this by now (seeing you memorize my old posts).
A short reminder: this is a public forum and not your private garden where you invite or uninvite members of EF. Everyone is entitled to post in this forum. If you need a casino to bet or a playground there are many outside to enjoy your time.
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Old 13.02.2011, 00:53
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Over 5000 years dictators have ruled over Egypt in one form or another. The people think itís time for a change it didnít come like Iraq or Afghanistan as oil and arms sales were major factors.

Mubarak made the biggest mistake as most people do in his position to keep the countryís wealth to his own cronies. I donít know if one billion or twenty billion is enough but there is only a certain amount spending you can do until you get bored of it.

This was the easiest part making a country free from a dictator unfortunately the machinery behind the dictator is still alive and still in control.

Mubarak kept things together, can the new people keep things together? History shows the answer is no and what usually happens is a worse situation occurs, especially in the Middle East.

I am watching young Egyptians sweeping the streets and cleaning up after the demonstration they seems to be a sense of civility taking place and people are naturally happy.

Can we see something new happening or will the bigger powers (military)bring about business as usual but with a messy political situation which never becomes stable so they never have to hand over power?

I can understand the uncertainties but we all truly wish something new will happen even though deep down we know it wonít.



If you see what has happened over the past 30 years we have truly removed walls, apartheid, communist and capitalist threat, discrimination, sexism, homophobia it is about time we get the Islam phobia out of the way but of course that has to wait because we donít have any positive examples.



Let the walls tumble and the people struggle if we see a little light letís try and kindle it and hope it lights up the room so it can provide a positive force for us to transpire too.


I hope we donít say ďIn öā AllāhĒ (god willing) and hope that it is "people willing" for change in their own Arabic world. I dont care for democracy as long as they are happy with whatever they build that would be the magical formulae.
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  #530  
Old 13.02.2011, 02:22
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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You are wasting time - you said I was against democracy in the arab world. now prove it.
PASHOSH: cut the hate man...knife knife!
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Old 13.02.2011, 02:26
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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If you see what has happened over the past 30 years we have truly removed walls, apartheid, communist and capitalist threat, discrimination, sexism, homophobia it is about time we get the Islam phobia out of the way but of course that has to wait because we donít have any positive examples.
List every non-positive example coming from Muslims you can think of -since you believe in collective guilt- and we'll counter it with a worse example coming from the West...
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  #532  
Old 13.02.2011, 02:30
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Chill Pashosh, this is for you



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  #533  
Old 13.02.2011, 10:55
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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A short reminder: this is a public forum and not your private garden where you invite or uninvite members of EF. Everyone is entitled to post in this forum. If you need a casino to bet or a playground there are many outside to enjoy your time.
No one forced you to join the bet - you rushed in of your own free will.

In the mean time the Army is still running Egypt. The Army chief ("temporary Pharoah" ?) has already called the Israeli defense minister to assure him that Egypt (still?) is committed to it's agreements.
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  #534  
Old 13.02.2011, 11:31
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Arabs not ready for democracy because of deep causes.....like they don't deserve it.

A visionary post the least we can say.
His post included two mistakes. Since the 2nd parliamentary elections, Iraq indeed IS a democratic country. A country with weaknesses and faults, true, but democratic nevertheless. And the second mistake ? Afghanistan is NOT Arab but belongs in a way to the Indian Subcontinent and in another to Central Asia.
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  #535  
Old 13.02.2011, 11:39
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Try to understand your own post and check your analysis of "non existing democracy in arab countries". Apparently since sept 2010 the level of income and education increased dramatically to make 2 revolutions possible and allow 2 countries to finally "join the 20th century".

Don't go for 1 week, your posts are so entertaining.
I think that you both belittle and underestimate the improvements in regard to income and education. These improvements of course were far from "dramatic" and were modest, BUT were enough to allow the emergence of what I would call a "civil citizen society".

Another aspect is that many around the world, particularily "experts", talk a lot about the Muslim Brotherhood, and so fail to notice the sensational rebirth of the Wafd Party, which made a transformation from the party of the big land-owners of the 1920ies until 1952 to a new party of industrialists and tourism tycoons, but also of small business owners.

And an additional aspect will be the return of the Socialists, who by Mubarak were practically pressed into the NPD, which organisation-wise
is nothing else than a renamed A.S.U. gone centrist. I expect the right-wing of the NPD to become a real right-of-centre party or join the Wafd, but the left-wing becoming a leftist party (again).
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  #536  
Old 13.02.2011, 11:47
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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He is entitled to a lack of trust, if I was an Israel I would be worried too. Arabs should show that they are more humane than the Europeans were in WWII and allow the Jews to live in peace within the 67 borders.

Think of all the trading possibilities - selling Israel a secure, high quality gas and oil service. Allowing Israel monitored access to the Suez canal. A more porous border, allowing free exchange of ideas and business. I can think of so many great things that can come form this. If the Middle-East were to become secure and democratic, then there would be improved policing of international waters, less need for nuclear stockpiles and massive armaments. AIPAC would not longer be under pressure to lobby.

My mind boggles with the endless possibilities!
You are some decades in arrears. Egypt and Jordan did sign peace treaties with Israel, and have respected all conditions of the treaties totally and to the last point. Many Arab countries have low-level diplomatic relations with Israel, and by these countries I mean Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Yemen, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE and Oman. Israel has used the Suez Canal now for years. Israelis can freely travel to Egypt and Jordan and Morocco. Much is left to be desired. For example, for Syria, Haifa Seaport would be the ideal gateway for much of its trade. Ashkelon would be ideal as terminal for pipelines from the Arabian Gulf area.
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  #537  
Old 13.02.2011, 12:01
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I asked you to respect your commitments - it didn't happen.
The Egyptian & Tunisian are asking for democracy - I don't know if they will get it.

Israel (and Egypt) has a lot to lose if Egypt turns hostile (think Iran 1979) - I said it before, you should know this by now (seeing you memorize my old posts).

A) You may be right in regard to Egypt as there still may be a danger of an ambitious general trying to grasp power, but in Tunisia the chances of becoming a really democratic country are above 90%. The Tunisians are no longer asking for democracy, they are insisting on the process being pulled through as agreed

B) No leader in the Egypt of the future, regardless of status, will turn "hostile" to Israel, due to the realities of the day. The comparisons with Iran are irrelevant, as Iran in reality never had much sympathies for the Arab World, and as Iranians for no real reasons feel superior to the Arabs, and most of all as there is some distance between Iran and Israel.
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  #538  
Old 13.02.2011, 12:10
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Over 5000 years dictators have ruled over Egypt in one form or another. The people think itís time for a change it didnít come like Iraq or Afghanistan as oil and arms sales were major factors.

Mubarak made the biggest mistake as most people do in his position to keep the countryís wealth to his own cronies. I donít know if one billion or twenty billion is enough but there is only a certain amount spending you can do until you get bored of it.

This was the easiest part making a country free from a dictator unfortunately the machinery behind the dictator is still alive and still in control.

Mubarak kept things together, can the new people keep things together? History shows the answer is no and what usually happens is a worse situation occurs, especially in the Middle East.

I am watching young Egyptians sweeping the streets and cleaning up after the demonstration they seems to be a sense of civility taking place and people are naturally happy.

Can we see something new happening or will the bigger powers (military)bring about business as usual but with a messy political situation which never becomes stable so they never have to hand over power?

I can understand the uncertainties but we all truly wish something new will happen even though deep down we know it wonít.



If you see what has happened over the past 30 years we have truly removed walls, apartheid, communist and capitalist threat, discrimination, sexism, homophobia it is about time we get the Islam phobia out of the way but of course that has to wait because we donít have any positive examples.



Let the walls tumble and the people struggle if we see a little light letís try and kindle it and hope it lights up the room so it can provide a positive force for us to transpire too.


I hope we donít say ďIn öā AllāhĒ (god willing) and hope that it is "people willing" for change in their own Arabic world. I dont care for democracy as long as they are happy with whatever they build that would be the magical formulae.

Ironically, it is exactly the other way round. Nasser , Sadat and Mubarak did NOT keep THE wealth to their cronies, but allowed wealth to spread. That the rich profited far more than the poor is not uniquely Egyptian. But, only this spread made the development of a broad middle class possible. The Egypt under Mubarak was not "corruption-free" but not more corruption prone than the Egypt between 1922 and the assassination of President Sadat.

And just a linguistic thing. It is the ARAB World, but the Arabic language
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  #539  
Old 13.02.2011, 14:29
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

"Ironically, it is exactly the other way round. Nasser , Sadat and Mubarak did NOT keep THE wealth to their cronies, but allowed wealth to spread. That the rich profited far more than the poor is not uniquely Egyptian. But, only this spread made the development of a broad middle class possible. The Egypt under Mubarak was not "corruption-free" but not more corruption prone than the Egypt between 1922 and the assassination of President Sadat. "

To be honest if you look at the current country and the development goals, malnutrition rates and unemployment figures. Then you visit the country now and again you might come up with a different opinion.

Let us be honest, yours is just an opinion from people who have been benefitting from the current system.

You would like to look upon Mubarak as positive force rather than a negative one. As all dictators he was sometimes positive and does not always have to be wrong.


The question if he was milking the country dry with his greed is he was and so were all his cronies that is a fact. If you donít agree then I would say dig a bit deeper in your research.


Arabic is not only used for as referral of language it can also be used in a sentence to define Arabs.


By the way there is a lot of grammatical errors in your rebuttals.
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  #540  
Old 13.02.2011, 14:34
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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By the way there is a lot of grammatical errors in your rebuttals.
I nominate this for 'quote of the day'...

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