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  #661  
Old 21.02.2011, 18:59
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

So they've had the revolution, Mubarak has resigned and now what? Was the revolution about getting rid of Mubarak and having "freedoms" or to have jobs and enough money for a decent life?

Which I dont think would be that easy, with or without Mubarak. So what Im actually trying to say is when do they march towards US embassy to lay a seige?
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  #662  
Old 22.02.2011, 00:53
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Which parties will run in the Egyptian elections ? was a date set ?
Don't know about the date. But among the parties, very prominent will be the new Wafd Party, now the party of business and industry. Interesting will be the fate of the NDP (National Democratic Party) which most presumably will break up into a new Socialist Party (a rejuvenated ASU) and a right-of-centre party. Even a Communist Party may get into swing. Also interesting will be whether the Muslim Brotherhood will get into action as one party or whether it again will break up into several parties. The Wafd in recent weeks has been the only party which actually took part in politicals talks as a real party.
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  #663  
Old 22.02.2011, 01:02
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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So they've had the revolution, Mubarak has resigned and now what? Was the revolution about getting rid of Mubarak and having "freedoms" or to have jobs and enough money for a decent life?

Which I dont think would be that easy, with or without Mubarak. So what Im actually trying to say is when do they march towards US embassy to lay a seige?
A) getting rid of Mubarak ? Sure, to get rid of the aging dementia-ridden and increasingly-senile old general was important
B) elections for a real parliament will be held
C) jobs ? Hosni Mubarak has possibly created more jobs than any politician in comparable functions. He has done more to improve infrastructure, education and healthcare than any comparable statesman. The democratically elected leaders of the Egypt in the future will be hard-pressed to be better than he has been !
D) a lot is said about low salaries of Egyptians, but not so much about very low prices of basic commodities in Egypt, which in fact allows quite many people a "decent life"
E) (=D2) when Mubarak took over, his country had some 36 mio. inhabitants. the country now has almost 80 mio. inhabitants. These people have a higher living standard, a higher average income, a better education, a better healthcare, and at their hands a far better infrastructure than their previous generation had. So, there must have been some things, the old general did right
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Old 22.02.2011, 10:50
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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A) getting rid of Mubarak ? Sure, to get rid of the aging dementia-ridden and increasingly-senile old general was important
B) elections for a real parliament will be held
C) jobs ? Hosni Mubarak has possibly created more jobs than any politician in comparable functions. He has done more to improve infrastructure, education and healthcare than any comparable statesman. The democratically elected leaders of the Egypt in the future will be hard-pressed to be better than he has been !
D) a lot is said about low salaries of Egyptians, but not so much about very low prices of basic commodities in Egypt, which in fact allows quite many people a "decent life"
E) (=D2) when Mubarak took over, his country had some 36 mio. inhabitants. the country now has almost 80 mio. inhabitants. These people have a higher living standard, a higher average income, a better education, a better healthcare, and at their hands a far better infrastructure than their previous generation had. So, there must have been some things, the old general did right
Agree
but if Mubarek & his family were not taking a couple of billion out of the economy every year then life would be even better?
Equivalent to an average weeks wage for every inhabitant (not just the workers)?
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Old 24.02.2011, 00:53
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Gloria all'Egitto

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  #666  
Old 24.02.2011, 01:58
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Agree
but if Mubarek & his family were not taking a couple of billion out of the economy every year then life would be even better?
Equivalent to an average weeks wage for every inhabitant (not just the workers)?
No doubt about this. Far worse however was that the old promise out of the times of Sadat never was kept, and that would have been to reduce the RED TAPE under which the Egyptian economy suffered for decades, and which kept many foreign businessmen away and drove many Egyptian businessmen out.

The Mubarak Clan in fact did not take money out of the economy, but made billions by "privatisation-deals", which meant that they bought up state-companies and then a bit later sold the same companies at fairly exaggerated prices, fairly often in fact to foreigners, so that money came into Egypt "thanks" for that And the profits ? Only the future will tell how much of them were re-invested in Egypt and how much abroad.
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  #667  
Old 25.02.2011, 10:55
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

I hear Algeria has lifted their State of Emergency; & what in Egypt?
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  #668  
Old 26.02.2011, 17:57
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I hear Algeria has lifted their State of Emergency; & what in Egypt?
I still respect El Bardei's views. he has criticized the Arab league for not taking a stronger stance on condemning the violent crack-down in Libya. He is also warning not to rush the elections- to first make sure that those guilty of crimes associated with Muburak's regime first be brought to justice. If this is not done then many will try to hold on to the reins of power by adopting a different guise. new system- same people. remeber that Cameron juts visited met with all parties except the Muslim brotherhood.

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Their exclusion was said to be “in order to underline that there are alternative voices that are now being given a political platform” in Egypt.
http://twocircles.net/2011feb22/came...sit_egypt.html

The UK are desperate to hang on oil and arms deals with Egypt, they seek to influence the transition to a n amenable government as soon as possible. Cameron actually took arms dealers with him on his trip. will they accomplish this or will the Egyptain govenrment take El Baradei's advice and concentrate on making sure that past corruptive influences are extricated from politics.
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Old 26.02.2011, 18:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I still respect El Bardei's views. he has criticized the Arab league for not taking a stronger stance on condemning the violent crack-down in Libya. He is also warning not to rush the elections- to first make sure that those guilty of crimes associated with Muburak's regime first be brought to justice. If this is not done then many will try to hold on to the reins of power by adopting a different guise. new system- same people. remeber that Cameron juts visited met with all parties except the Muslim brotherhood.



http://twocircles.net/2011feb22/came...sit_egypt.html

The UK are desperate to hang on oil and arms deals with Egypt, they seek to influence the transition to a n amenable government as soon as possible. Cameron actually took arms dealers with him on his trip. will they accomplish this or will the Egyptain govenrment take El Baradei's advice and concentrate on making sure that past corruptive influences are extricated from politics.
I expect the new leaders of Egypt, already now lead by the traditonally pro-British Wafd-Party, to follow the friendly advice of Mr Cameron. Beside the point that Egypt fairly urgently needs a new leadership, in other words a new and seriously democratic parliament and a democratically elected state president. And Prime Minister should become who will be the leader of the largest party in parliament, and not a confidant of the president.
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  #670  
Old 26.02.2011, 18:27
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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ElBaradei suggested that through the presence of the army, the regime is standing strong and firm.
Explaining the latest developments in Egypt, ElBaradei indicated that the elections need to be held in one year’s time, not six months. Noting that regimes in Egypt thus far have been sustained with military backing, he said those retiring from the army have been made governors and directors general, or they have been assigned to important posts in ministries. He said at the present time the exact aims of the military are not clear and that Defense Minister Hussein Tantawi has not once attempted to ease public concern by appearing on television.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-2361...t-radical.html

What is Amr Moussa doing or saying?

While the Arab business news say that over 50% of egyptain supprt Amr Moussa as the new president otehrs on the street say this

I
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n the street the demands of protesters were clear: the Arab League must unequivocally call on Gaddafi to stand down, or face expulsion. "They sit passively while Libya is burning, and they call themselves Arabs," said Bassem Tarek, a 20-year-old Egyptian involved who wanted to express solidarity with Libya's anti-regime uprising. "Many think that Moussa [the secretary general] is just a client of dictators, a spewer of lies," added Abdel Rahman Ashraf, 19. "If he wants to prove us wrong then he has to come and talk to us here."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ondemn-gaddafi

I t looks to me as if Amr Moussa cannot think out of the box of the Old Arab world, which suits dictators, and Cameron well. I still believe that El Baradei is the answer, he may be old, but not as old as Amr Moussa and certainly not afraid to think of new possibilities that suit the Egyptian youth. Some say that he has spent too long out of teh country, but maybe that is better than someone who stays in the country and becomes entrenched in the established (and in Egypt's case totally immoral) way of doing things.

Last edited by hoppy; 26.02.2011 at 18:45.
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  #671  
Old 27.02.2011, 06:04
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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http://www.todayszaman.com/news-2361...t-radical.html

What is Amr Moussa doing or saying?

While the Arab business news say that over 50% of egyptain supprt Amr Moussa as the new president otehrs on the street say this

I

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ondemn-gaddafi

I t looks to me as if Amr Moussa cannot think out of the box of the Old Arab world, which suits dictators, and Cameron well. I still believe that El Baradei is the answer, he may be old, but not as old as Amr Moussa and certainly not afraid to think of new possibilities that suit the Egyptian youth. Some say that he has spent too long out of teh country, but maybe that is better than someone who stays in the country and becomes entrenched in the established (and in Egypt's case totally immoral) way of doing things.
To you, Mr Baradei is the answer. To me, the worthy gentleman is Wien and "än ächte Wiäner". He calls for patience and a loooong time to pass until elections. And everything be done in a serious and very correct manner. During the time-frame he proposes, Egypt will have grown by 500'000 people ! No, Egypt does not need a "Wiääner" really

Amr Moussa is Cairo. Let's have democracy but rather today than tomorrow. Let's have things really moving. Let's also accept that Mubarak did quite a good job in regard to the delopment of industry, infrastructure, education and healthcare and so that many of his folks were doing respectable work, and this with salaries some 50% of cleaning personnel in Vienna
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Old 27.02.2011, 09:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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To you, Mr Baradei is the answer. To me, the worthy gentleman is Wien and "än ächte Wiäner". He calls for patience and a loooong time to pass until elections. And everything be done in a serious and very correct manner. During the time-frame he proposes, Egypt will have grown by 500'000 people ! No, Egypt does not need a "Wiääner" really.
Better than an echte actor- a person who looks the part but does little, if anything. If the Egyptians formed a government in haste they could be repenting for a long time and not at leisure.



What needs to be taken care of immediately is the release of all political prisoners and end of emergency law

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A witness says Egyptian military police beat protesters today to clear them from outside the Cabinet office where they were trying to camp out overnight, despite a midnight curfew....
The protest movement, however, is growing impatient, and tens of thousands rallied in Cairo's Tahrir Square yesterday.
Demonstrators also seek the repeal of emergency laws and the release of political prisoners.
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/national/s...49441&catid=45

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Amr Moussa is Cairo. Let's have democracy but rather today than tomorrow. Let's have things really moving. Let's also accept that Mubarak did quite a good job in regard to the delopment of industry, infrastructure, education and healthcare and so that many of his folks were doing respectable work, and this with salaries some 50% of cleaning personnel in Vienna
The British did quite a good job during colonialization on improving infrastructure, so did the apartheid regime in South Africa, the plantation owners in the US. I believe they did it on pretty low salaries too-what was it in Egypt -$1 per day for some? Well done old chap
What good are these improvements if the benefits are reserved for the privileged?

Last edited by hoppy; 27.02.2011 at 17:03.
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  #673  
Old 27.02.2011, 19:14
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Better than an echte actor- a person who looks the part but does little, if anything. If the Egyptians formed a government in haste they could be repenting for a long time and not at leisure.



What needs to be taken care of immediately is the release of all political prisoners and end of emergency law

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/national/s...49441&catid=45



The British did quite a good job during colonialization on improving infrastructure, so did the apartheid regime in South Africa, the plantation owners in the US. I believe they did it on pretty low salaries too-what was it in Egypt -$1 per day for some? Well done old chap
What good are these improvements if the benefits are reserved for the privileged?
The benefits were NOT reserved for the privileged. Sure, some as everywhere, were a bit more equal than others But the benefits of progress were open to all the population.

How did the Mubarak family profit undecently ?
- The president arranged privatisations of state-owned companies and arranged that his two sons could purchase these companies at low prices and re-sell these companies either via stock-exchange or directly with vast profits.
- The president launched public projects and made sure that his sons got the best contracts
- Other companies got good contracts, if they were ready to give nice sub-contracts to companies owned by the Mubarak-sons

But the accelerated industrialisation, even in agriculture, the better healthcare, the eradication of Bilharziosis, the new highways, the improved infrastructure (underground railways in Cairo for example), the new professional schools, the improved basic education, all this was for the people in general.

Let's be clear. If a businessman like Mr Sawiri builds a new tourism centre, it is obvious who will get most of the profits. BUT thousands of people find work in these facilities. Are such things so different here in Europe
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  #674  
Old 27.02.2011, 20:04
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The benefits were NOT reserved for the privileged. Sure, some as everywhere, were a bit more equal than others But the benefits of progress were open to all the population.

How did the Mubarak family profit undecently ?
- The president arranged privatisations of state-owned companies and arranged that his two sons could purchase these companies at low prices and re-sell these companies either via stock-exchange or directly with vast profits.
- The president launched public projects and made sure that his sons got the best contracts
- Other companies got good contracts, if they were ready to give nice sub-contracts to companies owned by the Mubarak-sons

But the accelerated industrialisation, even in agriculture, the better healthcare, the eradication of Bilharziosis, the new highways, the improved infrastructure (underground railways in Cairo for example), the new professional schools, the improved basic education, all this was for the people in general.

Let's be clear. If a businessman like Mr Sawiri builds a new tourism centre, it is obvious who will get most of the profits. BUT thousands of people find work in these facilities. Are such things so different here in Europe
You don't really believe this do you? I have heard a very different side from highly educated Egyptians, one of who personally knew Mr Ezz. The stories of corruption would be unbelievable had I not known about the shah's dynasty.

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In 2006, Ezz owned over 70 percent of the country’s steel and iron production and 50 percent of the ceramics market. Ezz is also a close associate of Gamal Mubarak and members of the opposition have accused him of exploiting this relationship to secure leadership positions within the NDP. Independent publications have also accused him of financing President Mubarak’s 2005 presidential campaign in exchange for a coveted political appointment. Finally, Ezz has been accused of blocking the passage of legislation intended to stiffen anti-trust laws. He is expected to retain his seat in the upcoming People’s Assembly elections and plays a prominent role in both selecting other NDP candidates for elections and coordinating their electoral preparations.
http://egyptelections.carnegieendowm...e-of-ahmed-ezz

http://www.dailystaregypt.com/articl...rticleID=12102
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Old 27.02.2011, 20:36
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The benefits were NOT reserved for the privileged. Sure, some as everywhere, were a bit more equal than others But the benefits of progress were open to all the population.

How did the Mubarak family profit undecently ?
- The president arranged privatisations of state-owned companies and arranged that his two sons could purchase these companies at low prices and re-sell these companies either via stock-exchange or directly with vast profits.
- The president launched public projects and made sure that his sons got the best contracts
- Other companies got good contracts, if they were ready to give nice sub-contracts to companies owned by the Mubarak-sons

But the accelerated industrialisation, even in agriculture, the better healthcare, the eradication of Bilharziosis, the new highways, the improved infrastructure (underground railways in Cairo for example), the new professional schools, the improved basic education, all this was for the people in general.

Let's be clear. If a businessman like Mr Sawiri builds a new tourism centre, it is obvious who will get most of the profits. BUT thousands of people find work in these facilities. Are such things so different here in Europe
About "all this was for the people in general"
Clearly there are several million Egyptians who passionately do not believe "all this was for the people in general" - you should be trying to convince them, not us.
Good luck!
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Old 01.03.2011, 00:21
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About "all this was for the people in general"
Clearly there are several million Egyptians who passionately do not believe "all this was for the people in general" - you should be trying to convince them, not us.
Good luck!
A) An obvious majority of Egyptians were increasingly opposed to that one-man-show on top, opposed to forged parliamentary elections, opposed to a "presidential party" getting most of the seats, opposed to an increasingly dementia-ridden man at the presidency
B) I hope however they are realistic enough to see that a democratic government cannot simply "create a few million jobs
C) And I hope they see that corruption most likely will follow under a democracy. Look at Italy ! Democracy since 1946, but corruption never got eradicated
D) I however DO hope that the government of the future will reduce red tape, will reduce the "permissions-scheme" whereby an importer of electronics needed up to 20 different permissions per consignment
E) AND most Egyptians were clearly opposed to the younger son of the old general not just profiting from his position in an unbearable way but busily trying to establish himself as THE successor to his father

And now, let's have a look at another aspect. Democratic societies with a liberal and open framework can give the economy the freedom really required. So, I hope for the best.
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Old 06.03.2011, 07:10
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Shredding the evidence?

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Egyptian protesters have stormed the headquarters of the secret police in Cairo, demanding that the organisation be dismantled.
It followed rumours that officials were destroying documents that could be used in court to prove human rights abuses.
On Friday, some 200 protesters stormed the agency's offices in Alexandria after police fired on protesters.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12657464
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Old 06.03.2011, 10:47
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Good job by the protestors; they are at the beginning of a long & difficult road.
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Old 06.03.2011, 10:49
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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A) An obvious majority of Egyptians were increasingly opposed to that one-man-show on top, opposed to forged parliamentary elections, opposed to a "presidential party" getting most of the seats, opposed to an increasingly dementia-ridden man at the presidency
B) I hope however they are realistic enough to see that a democratic government cannot simply "create a few million jobs
C) And I hope they see that corruption most likely will follow under a democracy. Look at Italy ! Democracy since 1946, but corruption never got eradicated
D) I however DO hope that the government of the future will reduce red tape, will reduce the "permissions-scheme" whereby an importer of electronics needed up to 20 different permissions per consignment
E) AND most Egyptians were clearly opposed to the younger son of the old general not just profiting from his position in an unbearable way but busily trying to establish himself as THE successor to his father

And now, let's have a look at another aspect. Democratic societies with a liberal and open framework can give the economy the freedom really required. So, I hope for the best.
I think that East Germany is a good example of how a grass roots revolution can have good results, of course, it was a special case with a strong West Germany on the door step to help out.
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Old 10.03.2011, 15:39
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

It's quite challenging to fight all this corruption as it infiltrated through most businesses and security agencies in the country, things are being achieved and we're moving forward but still there's some dirty hands creating conspiracies and trying to destroy the society.

On the other hand, Israelis are quite frustrated, anxious and angry about our new government, they just cannot accept our PM "Essam Sharaf" nor FM "Nabil al-Arabi", also there were 2 guys caught claiming to be businessmen planning a conspiracy last week related to Moussad to buy out major infrastructure / businesses stocks as soon as the EGY stock market open to control the economy, therefore stock market stays closed for security reasons.

The nile basin agreement is another file open on the table now, and being dealt with.

Last, Israel just asked the US for 20 Billion $ of military aid to increase their defense A.K.A attack due to current instability (Guess things didn't go as they always planned)

A good read to understand the nile plans: http://desip.igc.org/WillNile1.html
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