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  #761  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:13
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About ".....thugs who pop over 20 pills rohypnol, abuse alcohol and drugs then go down the road slaughtering people...."

Sounds like a quote from Assad or Gadaffi!!
So after the military took over then suddenly these murderous drug users (who were quiet during the whole of Mubarek's reign) popped up and needed to be dealt with in the last few months?
They always existed but due to the brutality of the police, they were hiding and their acts were mostly controlled, following the security crash down on the 28th Jan, they started to get out of the slums and into main roads, due to amount of damages caused to the police forces during the revolution, the army with the help of the citizens had to take control of it and as the military police is the one arresting them, they get charged in military courts.

In the mean time, everything is getting back to normal as the police is taking control of the security.

Just to be clear, military courts is NOT for normal crimes, this is totally against thugs who commit very violent crimes.

Last thing, these arrests is totally approved by the Egyptian citizens and actually been requested by the nation's people to restore the security back.
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  #762  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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At least army is protecting civilians from thugs and killers, better than your israeli's coward police arresting and beating unarmed children and women.

Full article with videos:

New York Times

P.S: I can fill up 1000 pages of videos of IDF and police violence if you want
Thank you for the entertaining video: A boy throws stones at a police car, and is then arrested while his mother shouts "leave the poor sick child" , "such a small child" "I'm with Betzelem" ("human rights" organisation). and when the police offers her to go with her "poor, sick" child she refuses - such a loving mother.

Where did you see the poice beating the kid ? the same place where your friends find "evidence" against spies ?

In any case - The Junta currently running Egypt is still using the old Nasserite rules to try people. so much for the "democratic revolution".

Drug dealers are civilians and should be tried by civilian courts. That's how it's done in civilized countries.
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  #763  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:34
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Thank you for the entertaining video: A boy throws stones at a police car, and is then arrested while his mother shouts "leave the poor sick child" , "such a small child" "I'm with Betzelem" ("human rights" organisation). and when the police offers her to go with her "poor, sick" child she refuses - such a loving mother.

Where did you see the poice beating the kid ? the same place where your friends find "evidence" against spies ?

In any case - The Junta currently running Egypt is still using the old Nasserite rules to try people. so much for the "democratic revolution".

Drug dealers are civilians and should be tried by civilian courts. That's how it's done in civilized countries.
Mate, read your history before bashing anyone else, our army is arresting murderer thugs to restore security and keep civilians safe, your army has been killing civilians all over the place since 1948

If you want to discuss in a rational educated manners based on FACTS, i'm up for it, if you start bashing, you won't get no love
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  #764  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:45
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Mate, read your history before bashing anyone else, our army is arresting murderer thugs to restore security and keep civilians safe, your army has been killing civilians all over the place since 1948

If you want to discuss in a rational educated manners based on FACTS, i'm up for it, if you start bashing, you won't get no love
Facts ?
Like your facts about Israel about to steal the Nile or all the Israeli spies your friends arrested ?

This thread is about Egypt, not Israel.

Why is the Egyptian army trying civilians ? are the civilian judges on strike ?
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  #765  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:48
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Facts ?
Like your facts about Israel about to steal the Nile or all the Israeli spies your friends arrested ?

Why is the Egyptian army trying civilians ? are the civilian judges on strike ?
Thugs went out of control after the security breakdown, and they don't fear civil law as they know it takes long to process and police is not best performing therefore extra security measures had to be taken, this is where the army came in and as the military police is arresting them, they are judged under military courts.....a warning was issued before taking these measures and thugs didn't back off, they have been warned and didn't comply, so they deserve it and it becomes legitimate.

Regarding your other comments, i would say you are just finding an excuse to bash again....you know exactly what is happening and you're denying it...so let the laws come in place...voila

Just to clear something, i'm not against Jews nor Israel, on the contrary, some of my best friends are actually Israelis....but i cannot tolerate your government practices and violence and my friends totally agree on that.
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  #766  
Old 22.06.2011, 12:55
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

What you describe is military rule - A classic Junta.

Why is the Egyptian police not functioning ?
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  #767  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:00
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Egyptian army try civilians - why, did anyone really think that Egypt is a democracy ?

It's not as if the Egyptian army is very good in actually fighting wars, civilians are much easier to deal with and rarely shoot back
Egypt is NOT (yet) a democracy at present. It WILL BE a democracy when a democratically elected parliament is in place, and a new President democratically elected. Who should do the court business now ? A franchisee of Mr Lynch ?

The Egyptian army in recent months has shown weaknesses and strengths. But the worst mistakes were done when Mubarak still was in power. The actions of the army-leadership in regard to the preparations for democracy look good for the time being. Apparently a franchisee of General Lucius Clay on the Nile
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  #768  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:04
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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What you describe is military rule - A classic Junta.

Why is the Egyptian police not functioning ?
There's big difference between military rule and military security put in place, maybe a question back at you:
  • Why IDF go to attack demonstrators in Gaza if you got your own police?
  • Why you bomb them with planes and rockets when they just through stones at you?
  • Why do you bomb schools and civilians compounds?
  • Why did you bomb Qana on 18 April 1996?
  • Why did you bomb Bahr El Baqar school on 8 April 1970?

I have 1000's of questions for you but i guess you're not the one to ask unless you're IDF or Mossad

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  #769  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:08
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Egypt is NOT (yet) a democracy at present. It WILL BE a democracy when a democratically elected parliament is in place, and a new President democratically elected.
The current estimate is the the Muslim brotherhood will get 35% of the votes.

It's very likely that they will be able to build a coalition - once they do that it's very likely law will be Sharia based, press freedom will be eliminated and religious minorities will be oppressed.

Still a democracy ?
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  #770  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:10
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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There's big difference between military rule and military security put in place, maybe a question back at you:
  • Why IDF go to attack demonstrators in Gaza if you got your own police?
  • Why you bomb them with planes and rockets when they just through stones at you?
  • Why do you bomb schools and civilians compounds?
  • Why did you bomb Qana on 18 April 1996?
  • Why did you bomb Bahr El Baqar school on 8 April 1970?

I have 1000's of questions for you but i guess you're not the one to ask unless you're IDF or Mossad

None of your questions have anything to do with this thread.

What is the "big difference between military rule and military security put in place"

The Army now arrests whomever they want,tries them & jail them - That's military rule
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  #771  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:11
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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What you describe is military rule - A classic Junta.

Why is the Egyptian police not functioning ?

A) Not a "classic" Junta, but a "military Junta with a promise to move into democracy" . Up to now they kept their words in allowing the parties to work in a democratic environment, in allowing the media to work without that weird system of indirect censorship (no censors in place, but newspapers printing "non-agreeable" things having their import permits for some vital equipment withdrawn

B) the Egyptian police is an organisation with policemen earning salaries which are less than some assistant-workers in any bazar, which means that a good deal of the force is useless. Ever driven around by car in Cairo ? Whomever has ever done so, knows what I am talking about. Ever having parked a nice rental-car in a street in "Cairo Garden-City" ? No policemen around, but you make a deal with some retired gentlemen or their grandson right off school, costing between 2 $ and 10 $ . Your car then gets guarded throughout the night.

C) Look at police at Egyptian airports. Standing around chatting by the dozens, jumping into action when they see somebody with a camera, but not in charge in case of something real. The nice thing about this is that you with a car are left through most "security controls" if you give them a military salute

C-2) the qualified policemen are in action to secure entrances to major hotels, museums, state authorities, and to man the actual security gates at airports and seaports. I think that they also get an acceptable salary, by Egyptian standards I mean.
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  #772  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:13
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The current estimate is the the Muslim brotherhood will get 35% of the votes.

It's very likely that they will be able to build a coalition - once they do that it's very likely law will be Sharia based, press freedom will be eliminated and religious minorities will be oppressed.

Still a democracy ?
Assumption does not lead to facts...it might look like that but it won't go this way.

Majority of population refuse a religious ruling in Egypt, Egypt is not Iran, MB will get in the parliament and that's their ultimate right as they're part of the society and Egyptian demographics, this is democracy.

If you want that we exclude MB of any political decisions or parliament then you're asking us to obey what Israel wants not establish democracy and we're definitely not gonna give Israel another muppet like mubarak that they can use to control us and oppress us
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  #773  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:16
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The current estimate is the the Muslim brotherhood will get 35% of the votes.

It's very likely that they will be able to build a coalition - once they do that it's very likely law will be Sharia based, press freedom will be eliminated and religious minorities will be oppressed.

Still a democracy ?

Well, if this becomes reality, I mean them leading a coalition, then you can look at examples like Nazi-Germany and the Islamic Rep of Iran . I expect them however to get some 30% indeed. A lot depends on whether it (the MB) will be really one party, or as in the past two or three. Another party which might come out strongly is the revived Wafd-Party. So, a lot still open.
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  #774  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:16
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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None of your questions have anything to do with this thread.
It's not really relative to the thread but you can still answer them, no?
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  #775  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:21
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

It's Egypt business if they want to vote for an Islamist party.

Once they are in power you'll have an Islamist country - forget about democracy.
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  #776  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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It's Egypt business if they want to vote for an Islamist party.

Once they are in power you'll have an Islamist country - forget about democracy.
What's your problem with Islam?, it's a religion as all religion, you cannot deny voting for Islamist party cause they're muslims, once they reveal their program and prove credible to be part of democratic Egypt, then they're mostly welcome regardless of their religion, isn't this the beauty of democracy?
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  #777  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:26
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Assumption does not lead to facts...it might look like that but it won't go this way.

Majority of population refuse a religious ruling in Egypt, Egypt is not Iran, MB will get in the parliament and that's their ultimate right as they're part of the society and Egyptian demographics, this is democracy.

If you want that we exclude MB of any political decisions or parliament then you're asking us to obey what Israel wants not establish democracy and we're definitely not gonna give Israel another muppet like mubarak that they can use to control us and oppress us
I think that you should abstain from making absolutely bad pictures of the three republican leaders of Egypt. When Nasr took power in 52 (originally as head of the Military Council, then becoming State President in 54) your country had far less than 20 mio people and now more than 80. The illiteracy was dominant, health (Bilharzios to be mentioned) abysmal, infrastructure minimal (highways, underground trains), most hotels of a very low standard, agricultured "handmade". So that the three gents obviously did a lot of things right. That under Mubarak, corruption gradually became a real disease is obvious, but again, he never was a "muppet" of Israel, he simply had to accept realities, THE realities which were the basis for the peace-treaty with Israel.

Whomever becomes President also will have to accept realities as they are, and will not be in daydreams. And of course knows that the living standard cannot be elevated overnight, but only slowly and gradually. Corruption also is widespread in countries like democratic Italy, possibly more so than under Benito Mussolini.
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Old 22.06.2011, 13:32
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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It's Egypt business if they want to vote for an Islamist party.

Once they are in power you'll have an Islamist country - forget about democracy.
If 70% vote for NON-fundamentalist parties, you have a "NON-Islamist" majority and so not an "Islamist" (=fundamentalist) country.

To make a comparison, even some people may refuse the analogy, Switzerland is a democracy as long as the SVP remains below 40% . With the trend no longer to get the 28% of last time but less. Why this comparison ? Because few MB voters share the whole program and because few SVP voters share their whole program, but because the voters of both parties are politically non-content disgruntled people
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  #779  
Old 22.06.2011, 13:34
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I think that you should abstain from making absolutely bad pictures of the three republican leaders of Egypt. When Nasr took power in 52 (originally as head of the Military Council, then becoming State President in 54) your country had far less than 20 mio people and now more than 80. The illiteracy was dominant, health (Bilharzios to be mentioned) abysmal, infrastructure minimal (highways, underground trains), most hotels of a very low standard, agricultured "handmade". So that the three gents obviously did a lot of things right. That under Mubarak, corruption gradually became a real disease is obvious, but again, he never was a "muppet" of Israel, he simply had to accept realities, THE realities which were the basis for the peace-treaty with Israel.

Whomever becomes President also will have to accept realities as they are, and will not be in daydreams. And of course knows that the living standard cannot be elevated overnight, but only slowly and gradually. Corruption also is widespread in countries like democratic Italy, possibly more so than under Benito Mussolini.
I totally agree on most of what you said, but for me respecting peace treaty conditions is something and going beyond that is something else and mubarak with his gang did go beyond that for money.

I do accept realities and respect the peace treaty as long as Israel does too, that's the only thing that matters, we're both definitely not looking for another war (Pashosh can give us his valuable input on the Israeli intentions of course)

End of the story, democracy process is being put in place and it's not easy to accomplish full democracy framework in just 6 months, we had 60 years of military ruling, 3 wars followed by 30 years of corruption, we just need to take 1 step at a time and definitely there will be some mistakes that we will learn from along the way
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Old 22.06.2011, 13:37
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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What's your problem with Islam?, it's a religion as all religion, you cannot deny voting for Islamist party cause they're muslims, once they reveal their program and prove credible to be part of democratic Egypt, then they're mostly welcome regardless of their religion, isn't this the beauty of democracy?
The term "Islamism" means "totalitarian Fundamentalism" Iran style. Turkish PM Erdogan interestingly bases his party NOT on Iran but on the German CDU-CSU (Christlich-Demokratische Union + CHRISTLICH-Soziale Union ) who both are not fundamentalist-Christian (or Evangelistic, to use the US-term). I saw reports when some of the younger leaders of the MB were outspoken about NOT wanting a fundamentalist country. Whether they are honest and whether they have power inside the MB is something I wondered about.
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