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  #781  
Old 22.06.2011, 14:00
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Well, if this becomes reality, I mean them leading a coalition, then you can look at examples like Nazi-Germany and the Islamic Rep of Iran . I expect them however to get some 30% indeed. A lot depends on whether it (the MB) will be really one party, or as in the past two or three. Another party which might come out strongly is the revived Wafd-Party. So, a lot still open.
About "A lot depends on whether it (the MB) will be really one party, or as in the past two or three"

Splits already showing;
Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood has expelled a senior member for saying he would run for president in defiance of the group's decision not to seek the post vacant since the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak in February.
"The Shura Council (the group's decision-making body) has decided to scrap the membership of Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh... because he announced he would run for the presidency," the Brotherhood said in a statement posted on its website.
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  #782  
Old 22.06.2011, 14:07
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About "A lot depends on whether it (the MB) will be really one party, or as in the past two or three"

Splits already showing;
Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood has expelled a senior member for saying he would run for president in defiance of the group's decision not to seek the post vacant since the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak in February.
"The Shura Council (the group's decision-making body) has decided to scrap the membership of Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh... because he announced he would run for the presidency," the Brotherhood said in a statement posted on its website.
Just to correct you, this not a split, this is a decision made, MB announced from day one they won't have a presidential candidate and Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh announced he will run for presidency on his own without any party supporting him, both sides have been clear on what they want.
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  #783  
Old 22.06.2011, 14:09
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I totally agree on most of what you said, but for me respecting peace treaty conditions is something and going beyond that is something else and mubarak with his gang did go beyond that for money.
Examples please of "going beyond" the peace treaty.

Mubarak kept the minimum agreed in the peace treaty, but allowed anti-israeli propaganda, did all he could against "normalization" - hardly an "Israeli puppet"
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  #784  
Old 22.06.2011, 17:09
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Just to correct you, this not a split, this is a decision made, MB announced from day one they won't have a presidential candidate and Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh announced he will run for presidency on his own without any party supporting him, both sides have been clear on what they want.
About " Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh announced he will run for presidency on his own without any party supporting him"

So he will collect some votes from existing MB members, other MB members will not vote for him - for me this is a split?
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  #785  
Old 22.06.2011, 17:41
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About " Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh announced he will run for presidency on his own without any party supporting him"

So he will collect some votes from existing MB members, other MB members will not vote for him - for me this is a split?
Wether some members vote for him or not, it's their own business, that doesn't reflect anything regarding the MB policy in anyway
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  #786  
Old 23.06.2011, 02:11
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I totally agree on most of what you said, but for me respecting peace treaty conditions is something and going beyond that is something else and mubarak with his gang did go beyond that for money.

I do accept realities and respect the peace treaty as long as Israel does too, that's the only thing that matters, we're both definitely not looking for another war (Pashosh can give us his valuable input on the Israeli intentions of course)

End of the story, democracy process is being put in place and it's not easy to accomplish full democracy framework in just 6 months, we had 60 years of military ruling, 3 wars followed by 30 years of corruption, we just need to take 1 step at a time and definitely there will be some mistakes that we will learn from along the way
No one can prove that General Mubarak went beyond anything for whatever money. He in fact has reduced the peace-treaty to what it is, a functional "non-aggression treaty". Quite to the contrary of your assumptions, he in the West often was critisized for keeping a "cold peace". Quite to the contrary, I hope that future leaders of Egypt are able to fill that peace treaty with life. Israel has affluent tourists which ought to be lured to the Nile. Egypt has a sizeable industry and a well working handycraft sector, which might produce products ideal for exports to Israel. Israel (for example between TLV and Beersheba) is a kind of HighTech-Valley CA/USA style, which could delivery lots of hightech-gear half the price of USA producers, and fairly nearby. A better and extended co-operation might include Egyptians to use the services of the Israeli seafreight shipping line with its departures out of Haifa and Ashdod. And an interstate-highway linking Cairo with Tel Aviv and Beirut would help to get tourists all along the Levantine coastline. BUT, to go back to the start, Anwar Sadat started the peace process not out of a liking for Israel but out of his love for HIS country. He realised that Egypt not only has no chance to win militarily against Israel (small but super high-tech) but that Israel has the unconditional support of the USA.

As soon as democratic rule is installed, your country has to check up its military structures. It right today emerged here in Switzerland, that within the frame of dismantling the outdated "fortress-artillery", a specific system within the fortress-artillery ("Bison") which did cost half a BILLION CHF and was only in use for a decade has nowto be scrapped. Now, Egypt is a different country, but one thing is clear. Egypt has to reduce the manpower of its military. Far smaller but more effective armed forces would on one side save lots of money and on the other side achieve more in regard to military effectiveness.
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  #787  
Old 23.06.2011, 02:19
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Just to correct you, this not a split, this is a decision made, MB announced from day one they won't have a presidential candidate and Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh announced he will run for presidency on his own without any party supporting him, both sides have been clear on what they want.
REAL splits of the MB are likely to come. Do not forget that the movement of Sheikh Ahmed Hassan el-Banna was, until 1952, united under the pressure of the British "services" in Egypt, and between 1952 and 2011 under the pressure of the Egyptian "services". The differences betweem those who dream about a strict implementation of fundamentalist law in Egypt and those who rather see it with the German CDU/CSU and Mr Erdogan in Ankara may lead to splits. With for example, the "moderates" forming a kind of MDU = Muslim Democratic Union. Who after the elections might go into a coalition with the Wafd and one of the moderate left parties, a kind of "Centro Sinistra Egizziana"
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  #788  
Old 23.06.2011, 22:40
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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No one can prove that General Mubarak went beyond anything for whatever money. He in fact has reduced the peace-treaty to what it is, a functional "non-aggression treaty". Quite to the contrary of your assumptions, he in the West often was critisized for keeping a "cold peace". Quite to the contrary, I hope that future leaders of Egypt are able to fill that peace treaty with life. Israel has affluent tourists which ought to be lured to the Nile. Egypt has a sizeable industry and a well working handycraft sector, which might produce products ideal for exports to Israel. Israel (for example between TLV and Beersheba) is a kind of HighTech-Valley CA/USA style, which could delivery lots of hightech-gear half the price of USA producers, and fairly nearby. A better and extended co-operation might include Egyptians to use the services of the Israeli seafreight shipping line with its departures out of Haifa and Ashdod. And an interstate-highway linking Cairo with Tel Aviv and Beirut would help to get tourists all along the Levantine coastline. BUT, to go back to the start, Anwar Sadat started the peace process not out of a liking for Israel but out of his love for HIS country. He realised that Egypt not only has no chance to win militarily against Israel (small but super high-tech) but that Israel has the unconditional support of the USA.
All these useful, effective, win-win suggestions assumes that Egypt will have a regime which is will have the welfare of its people as first priority.

Not very likely.
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Old 24.06.2011, 01:52
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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All these useful, effective, win-win suggestions assumes that Egypt will have a regime which is will have the welfare of its people as first priority.

Not very likely.
No, not so idealistic. I hope that the new Egyptian government will also look to the welfare of itself. And that means, to abstain from confronting the only regional military power around Egypt which might be dangerous to the country. The business I mentioned would also be beneficial for everybody in Egypt, creating jobs and making life easier. True, as utilizing the Peace Treaty to its real potential might be dangerous for those who might initiate it, and so, it for the time will be a continuation of the "Cold Peace" already mentioned.

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  #790  
Old 05.07.2011, 00:33
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Update

Parliamentary elections end of September followed by Presidential Elections
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  #791  
Old 05.07.2011, 13:54
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Update

Parliamentary elections end of September followed by Presidential Elections
That's nice.

I wonder if it will be the last "free" elections, or will it be an Islamist election "one man, one vote, once".

meanwhile the riots in Egypt continue.
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  #792  
Old 05.07.2011, 15:47
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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That's nice.

I wonder if it will be the last "free" elections, or will it be an Islamist election "one man, one vote, once".

meanwhile the riots in Egypt continue.
That's democracy- be careful what you wish for:

Like you said

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It's Egypt business if they want to vote for an Islamist party.
Why not if that's what the people vote for. After all we have a Jewish sate that was even democratically voted for. Suppose the Europeans suddenly have a big guilt trip about the way they treat Muslims, they think that a good way to solve the problem is to establish a Muslim state in Israel (which is where they originally came from-I know that claim may not be strictly true but hey they did for the Jews.) Then the world says to the Jews "suck it up". If it's OK for the Jews then it should be OK for any other religious group. The Egyptians can do what they want- it's their country and doesn't have to do Israel or the US's bidding anymore.
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Old 05.07.2011, 16:29
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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That's democracy- be careful what you wish for:

Like you said



Why not if that's what the people vote for. After all we have a Jewish sate that was even democratically voted for. Suppose the Europeans suddenly have a big guilt trip about the way they treat Muslims, they think that a good way to solve the problem is to establish a Muslim state in Israel (which is where they originally came from-I know that claim may not be strictly true but hey they did for the Jews.) Then the world says to the Jews "suck it up". If it's OK for the Jews then it should be OK for any other religious group. The Egyptians can do what they want- it's their country and doesn't have to do Israel or the US's bidding anymore.
About " to solve the problem is to establish a Muslim state " - not a valid comparison really.
There are already lots of Muslim states but the problem the Jews had is they did not have a single Jewish state.

I agree "The Egyptians can do what they want".
Let us hope that whatever they do does not turn around & bite them.
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Old 05.07.2011, 16:53
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About " to solve the problem is to establish a Muslim state " - not a valid comparison really.
There are already lots of Muslim states but the problem the Jews had is they did not have a single Jewish state.

I agree "The Egyptians can do what they want".
Let us hope that whatever they do does not turn around & bite them.

The Iranians chose the islamists - that only cost them a few million dead in a futile war, a represive dictatorship & a basket case economy. now they are stuck with it.

The Egyptians can choose Islamists as well - with similar results expected.
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Old 05.07.2011, 18:14
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About " to solve the problem is to establish a Muslim state " - not a valid comparison really.
There are already lots of Muslim states but the problem the Jews had is they did not have a single Jewish state.

I agree "The Egyptians can do what they want".
Let us hope that whatever they do does not turn around & bite them.
AS far as I know there is only one Muslim theocracy and that is a Shiite theocracy.

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Indeed, Israeli writer Gideon Levy in his Haaretz op-ed opines the country is a "semi-theocracy", writing, "Between Stockholm and Tehran, Israel of 2009, with its many religious attributes, is closer to Tehran," closing with "Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves."[11] Others point out that Israeli citizens have diverse religions, even as the country only grants instant citizenship to Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy

I have to tel you that my recent trip to Iran has made me realize that a lot of hogwash is written about Iran. I'll give you a few examples. My daughter was given a book written by a Jewish Iranian- which she naively read on the flights and whilst in Iran. I wanted to read it so I read it in on my travels and the return journey, no-one questioned the book.
I regularly email, youtube and speak on the phone. While I was in Iran I loosely wore a headscarf and an ultra lightweight linen tunic or silk shirt over thin trousers (a bit like an Indian tunic.) I suppose I didn't mid that too much- it was practical- kept me form getting sunburnt and as I no longer have my page 3 body, don't want fancy showing too much flesh. A couple of years ago I told off in the US for wearing belly tops and shorts in 38C DC street summer. My daughter chose legging type jeans.

Half the time my headscarf would fall off, exposing long blonde hair. I wore more make-up than at home, to kind of fit -in. I wasn't used to wearing the scarf so I didn't notice when it didn't fall off. No-one commneted or even seemed to notice, except my husband and daughter, not even the police. Iranian women's fashion is very Gaga-esque. Many seem to be modelling themselves on Kim Kardashian. I may be a bit of a prude but sometimes it seems a bit over the top- teetering on 8 inch heel, 4 inch platforms in incredibly heavy make-up, boufant dyed bloinde hair, designer glasses and loads of gold bling, tight dresses. Most young guys are ripped, swooping by on motorbikes in tight shirts, they are ultra fashion conscious. I saw young couples holding hands, dating in restaurants. Casual sex is common. Guys with quiffed hair hold hands or walk with their arms around each other and openly kiss cheeks. They wear necklaces, bracelets- the hippy look, some have very long hair. Yes there's alcohol if you want it in your own home. The flirting on the street is really overt amongst the young, they seem bored. People talk openly about politics with you- although they are careful not to offend the overtly pious. My mother-in-law is a Haji and in some ways expects that to be revered, she doesn't like people knocking her faith as she doesn't knock other's.

Meanwhile I hear on VoA-(almost every house or apartment has satellite TV) that the police have cracked down on dress code, there have been arrests, that 60% of women have been reprimanded about their dress-code.

I sat in the hotel, loud live band blaring outside till 12pm. (Iranians love loud music) while watching Al Jazeera. I could have watched BBC or CNN but chose Al Jazeera because I can't get it at home. The only thing thing we noticed is that my daughter was approached by the paid pianist, when she took over the piano and began to sing in public. None of the audience complained, they clapped and smiled, but I don't think women are allowed to sing solo in public. She took it as a hint and stopped playing.
So maybe I just got lucky. No the young are not wearing miniskirts or belly tops, there is no mixed sunbathing; although there is a women's park where women reportedly strip off, I 'll probably go back there just for the experience. Men can openly play sports in public in pretty much anything except swimming trunks. So women can oggle away while the men strut their stuff, it's the straight guys who are deprived the pleasure of oggling skimpily dressed women.

I did see open confrontation between men and women in the street, Iranian women are pretty feisty compared to western women- good for them!

I was surprised though- the people are nowhere near as repressed as I thought they would be.
I am trying to think of what I couldn't find in Iran that I can find in the West. I can't think of anything except alcohol n public and the right to form anti-Islamic political parties. The only thing that bugged me was the headscarf, I have very thick hair, anything on my head bugs me. Also I prefer shorts for mountain hiking.
The young that I met seem disillusioned and apathetic. No politician seems to inspire them, not even the Greens/ Moussavi/ khatami. They are suspicious of Western colonialist motives. They don't empathize with Mossadegh. They are proud of their country but want better-paid jobs and freer-er access to Western technology. There are two camps among the young -the Kardashian clones ( now heavily into lapdogs) and the studious. The studious don't miss what was there in the Shah's time- such as concerts, mixed public pools, because their culture has changed and most do not travel outside of Iran. They are more hungry for world History, Arts, Science etc. and they are very proud of / willing to share their own history, scenery, culture etc.

So yes there are still restrictions but nothing like you see in the media. However it does go in cycles, so maybe I was just there during a lax time. It's all about money, control and power, same as any country.

The western press love to hype up the evils of Muslim societies. Some of it (like the reports of a clampdown on the headscarf while I was there) is blatant lies. What I didn't hear them report was the sympathy walk on the Neda anniversary or the fact that Rafsanjani's office was subject to arson- that was in the Iranian Press.

Last edited by hoppy; 05.07.2011 at 18:35.
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  #796  
Old 05.07.2011, 18:31
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Very delightful read that pretty much clears any doubts,same is happening regarding most other Muslim states.....western media is just serving western political agendas and does not reflect any reality unfortunately

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AS far as I know there is only one Muslim theocracy and that is a Shiite theocracy.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy

I have to tel you that my recent trip to Iran has made me realize that a lot of hogwash is written about Iran. I'll give you a few examples. My daughter was given a book written by a Jewish Iranian- which she naively read on the flights and whilst in Iran. I wanted to read it so I read it in on my travels and the return journey, no-one asked. I regularly email, youtube and speak on the phone. While I was in Iran I loosely wore a headscarf and an ultra lightweight linen tunic or silk shirt over thin trousers (a bit like an Indian tunic.) I suppose I dn't mid that too much- it was practical- kept me form getting sunburnt and I no longer have my page 3 body, so don't want fancy showing too much flesh. A couple of years ago I told off in the US for wearing belly tops and shorts in 38C DC street summer. My daughter chose legging type jeans. Half the time my headscarf would fall off. I wasn't used to wearing it so I didn't notice. No-one pointed it out except my husband and daughter, not even the police. Iranian women's fashion is very Gaga-esque. Many seem to be modelling themselves on Kim Kardashian. I may be a bit of a prude but sometimes it seems a bit over the top- teetering on 8 inch heel, 4 inch platforms in incredibly heavy make-up, boufant dyed bloinde hair, designer glasses and loads of gold bling. Most young guys are ripped, swooping by on motorbikes in tight shirts, they are ultra fashion conscious. I saw young couples holding hands, dating in restaurants. Casual sex is common. Guys with quiffed hair hold hands or walk with their arms around each other and openly kiss cheeks. Yes there's alcohol if you want it in your own home. The flirting on the street is really overt amongst the young, they seem bored. People talk openly about politics with you- although they are careful not to offend the overtly pious.

Meanwhile I hear on VoA-(almost every house or apartment has satellite TV) that the police have cracked down on dress code, there have been arrests, that 60% of women have been reprimanded about their dress-code.

I sat in the hotel, loud live band blaring outside till 12pm. (Iranians love loud music) while watching Al Jazeera. I could have watched BBC or CNN but chose Al Jazeera because I can't get it at home. The only thing thing we noticed is that my daughter was approached by the paid pianist, when she took over the piano and began to sing in public. None of the audience complained, they clapped and smiled, but I don't think women are allowed to sing solo in public. She took it as a hint.
So maybe I just got lucky- no the young are not wearing miniskirts, there is no mixed sunbathing, there is a women's park where women reportedly strip off, I 'll probably go back there just for the experience. Men can openly play sports in public in pretty much anything except swimming trunks. So women can oggle away.

I did see open confrontation between men and women in the street, Iranian women are pretty feisty compared to western women- good for them!

I was surprised though- the people are nowhere near as repressed as I thought it would be.
I am trying to think of what I couldn't find in Iran that I can find in the West. I can't think of anything. The only thing that bugged me was the headscarf, I have very thick hair, anything on my head bugs me. Also I prefer shorts for mountain hiking.
The young that met seem disillusioned and apathetic. No one politician seems to inspire them. They are proud of their country but want better-paid jobs and freer-er access to Western technology. There are two camps -the Kardashian clones ( now heavily into lapdogs) and the studious. the studious don't miss what was there in the Shah's time- such as concerts, mixed public pools, because their culture has changed and most do not travel outside of Iran. They are more hungry for world History, Arts, Science etc. and they are very proud of their own history, scenery, culture etc.

So yes there are still restrictions but nothing like you see in the media. However it does go in cycles, so maybe I was just there during a lax time. It's all about money, control and power, same as any country.

The western press love to hype up the evils of Muslim societies. Some of it (like the reports of a clampdown on the headscarf while I was there) is blatant lies. What I didn't hear them report was the sympathy walk on the Neda anniversary or the fact that Rafsanjani's office was subject to arson- that was in the Iranian Press.
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Old 05.07.2011, 19:06
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Yes, life is fantastic in Egypt and Iran. As long as you are happy to live on 200$ a month in dictatorship (if you are a man. women get less).

Last edited by Pashosh; 05.07.2011 at 21:06.
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Old 05.07.2011, 22:16
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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AS far as I know there is only one Muslim theocracy and that is a Shiite theocracy.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy

I have to tel you that my recent trip to Iran has made me realize that a lot of hogwash is written about Iran. I'll give you a few examples. My daughter was given a book written by a Jewish Iranian- which she naively read on the flights and whilst in Iran. I wanted to read it so I read it in on my travels and the return journey, no-one questioned the book.
I regularly email, youtube and speak on the phone. While I was in Iran I loosely wore a headscarf and an ultra lightweight linen tunic or silk shirt over thin trousers (a bit like an Indian tunic.) I suppose I didn't mid that too much- it was practical- kept me form getting sunburnt and as I no longer have my page 3 body, don't want fancy showing too much flesh. A couple of years ago I told off in the US for wearing belly tops and shorts in 38C DC street summer. My daughter chose legging type jeans.

Half the time my headscarf would fall off, exposing long blonde hair. I wore more make-up than at home, to kind of fit -in. I wasn't used to wearing the scarf so I didn't notice when it didn't fall off. No-one commneted or even seemed to notice, except my husband and daughter, not even the police. Iranian women's fashion is very Gaga-esque. Many seem to be modelling themselves on Kim Kardashian. I may be a bit of a prude but sometimes it seems a bit over the top- teetering on 8 inch heel, 4 inch platforms in incredibly heavy make-up, boufant dyed bloinde hair, designer glasses and loads of gold bling, tight dresses. Most young guys are ripped, swooping by on motorbikes in tight shirts, they are ultra fashion conscious. I saw young couples holding hands, dating in restaurants. Casual sex is common. Guys with quiffed hair hold hands or walk with their arms around each other and openly kiss cheeks. They wear necklaces, bracelets- the hippy look, some have very long hair. Yes there's alcohol if you want it in your own home. The flirting on the street is really overt amongst the young, they seem bored. People talk openly about politics with you- although they are careful not to offend the overtly pious. My mother-in-law is a Haji and in some ways expects that to be revered, she doesn't like people knocking her faith as she doesn't knock other's.

Meanwhile I hear on VoA-(almost every house or apartment has satellite TV) that the police have cracked down on dress code, there have been arrests, that 60% of women have been reprimanded about their dress-code.

I sat in the hotel, loud live band blaring outside till 12pm. (Iranians love loud music) while watching Al Jazeera. I could have watched BBC or CNN but chose Al Jazeera because I can't get it at home. The only thing thing we noticed is that my daughter was approached by the paid pianist, when she took over the piano and began to sing in public. None of the audience complained, they clapped and smiled, but I don't think women are allowed to sing solo in public. She took it as a hint and stopped playing.
So maybe I just got lucky. No the young are not wearing miniskirts or belly tops, there is no mixed sunbathing; although there is a women's park where women reportedly strip off, I 'll probably go back there just for the experience. Men can openly play sports in public in pretty much anything except swimming trunks. So women can oggle away while the men strut their stuff, it's the straight guys who are deprived the pleasure of oggling skimpily dressed women.

I did see open confrontation between men and women in the street, Iranian women are pretty feisty compared to western women- good for them!

I was surprised though- the people are nowhere near as repressed as I thought they would be.
I am trying to think of what I couldn't find in Iran that I can find in the West. I can't think of anything except alcohol n public and the right to form anti-Islamic political parties. The only thing that bugged me was the headscarf, I have very thick hair, anything on my head bugs me. Also I prefer shorts for mountain hiking.
The young that I met seem disillusioned and apathetic. No politician seems to inspire them, not even the Greens/ Moussavi/ khatami. They are suspicious of Western colonialist motives. They don't empathize with Mossadegh. They are proud of their country but want better-paid jobs and freer-er access to Western technology. There are two camps among the young -the Kardashian clones ( now heavily into lapdogs) and the studious. The studious don't miss what was there in the Shah's time- such as concerts, mixed public pools, because their culture has changed and most do not travel outside of Iran. They are more hungry for world History, Arts, Science etc. and they are very proud of / willing to share their own history, scenery, culture etc.

So yes there are still restrictions but nothing like you see in the media. However it does go in cycles, so maybe I was just there during a lax time. It's all about money, control and power, same as any country.

The western press love to hype up the evils of Muslim societies. Some of it (like the reports of a clampdown on the headscarf while I was there) is blatant lies. What I didn't hear them report was the sympathy walk on the Neda anniversary or the fact that Rafsanjani's office was subject to arson- that was in the Iranian Press.

Very interesting read

About "I am trying to think of what I couldn't find in Iran that I can find in the West. I can't think of anything except alcohol n public and the right to form anti-Islamic political parties."
Well as you asked
  • Democratic voting e.g not more than 100% voting & most people accepting the result
  • Freedom to express religious & political ideas in public
  • foreign travel available as freely as in the west
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  #799  
Old 05.07.2011, 23:38
hoppy
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Very interesting read

About "I am trying to think of what I couldn't find in Iran that I can find in the West. I can't think of anything except alcohol n public and the right to form anti-Islamic political parties."
Well as you asked
  • Democratic voting e.g not more than 100% voting & most people accepting the result
  • Freedom to express religious & political ideas in public
  • foreign travel available as freely as in the west
The average monthly salary iin Iran and Egypt is just above $500. No not great, but compare it to India and China? In India the Average monly salary just crossed 3000 RS ( wowawiwa) which is, I think, $79 per month.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/monthly-incomeaverage-indian-crosses-rs-3000-cso/63218/on

Which is why I won't go to India or China- hell, I won't even go to Houston.

During the shah's time, the voting was rigged- the West couldn't afford another Mossadegh. Neither were people free to express religious or political ideas in public- actually I find people more vocal now than the Shah's time.
I think that people either are truly religious or they have just given up and say what they like. Even though most know that if they try t overthrow the government the crackdown will be brutal- look at Syria. Most seem not want another revolution, they do not want the system to collapse to create a power vacuum. At all levels people have fingers in the pie. They complain about the government, yet they work with the government.

Iranian's that have the money do travel a lot- in fact many have dual nationality and business abroad. Dubai was almost built on Iranian business. they are free to go those countries that will give them a visa. We travelled Iran air which was great except that because of sanctions we had to stop in Belgrade to refuel. That option has also now closed (due to sanctions) I think that they will refuel in Yerevan. The service and food was better and it was cleaner than the other airlines. Except the toilets- at the end of a full flight! The planes are leased- Iran has to conform to international guidelines. Pilot was great.I wasn't too keen on the Internal flight Iranian flight, that was the second rocky flight in 8 flights in 2 weeks. An American air pilot was also bad.
The poor seems to be better off than during the Shah's time. There is obvious wealth in Iran- very swanky looking governmental skyscrapers, Marble architecture with ornate ironwork and specially treated glass. Cars that I have not seen before- top of the range BMW's and Mercedes. I'm not keen on the open street drains and am sure that the sewers need work- but it's not smelly like Vienna. The biggest problem is traffic and pollution, like Los Angeles Tehran is in a bowl, exacerbated by the dust storms caused by desert storm land erosion. I am sure that cars use poorly refined gasoline. Sanctions affect refined oil imports.
I was very disappointed to see people so despondent, they seems to be waiting on the outcome of Egypt and Syria. To my mind what they should have is another Mossadegh,. This was one of the UK's and America's biggest blunders. If anyone is to profit from Iran- then it should be Iranians and not Western oil companies? I was more suspicious of people being western spies in Iran than I was of government informants.
Iran has never preemptively attacked another country, although it has been attacked many times. Let's wait and see how it reacts to the changing regimes in Syria and Egypt.

I criticize the government of every country that I am in Iran US, UK Switzerland. The only politician I like is Obama and a few democrats. I don't understand clothing restrictions or sexual discrimination at all. I think that people should be allowed to walk naked in the streets and make love to whomever mutually likes them, no country i know fully accepts that.

I was shocked at how openly women discuss sexuality and relationships. Contraception is fully available, abortion very common and openly discussed and accepted-there seems to be no guilt or shame in abortion-try that in the US!
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Old 06.07.2011, 00:17
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Another informative post which really makes me think about visiting Iran in the near future

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The average monthly salary iin Iran and Egypt is just above $500. No not great, but compare it to India and China? In India the Average monly salary just crossed 3000 RS ( wowawiwa) which is, I think, $79 per month.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/monthly-incomeaverage-indian-crosses-rs-3000-cso/63218/on

Which is why I won't go to India or China- hell, I won't even go to Houston.

During the shah's time, the voting was rigged- the West couldn't afford another Mossadegh. Neither were people free to express religious or political ideas in public- actually I find people more vocal now than the Shah's time.
I think that people either are truly religious or they have just given up and say what they like. Even though most know that if they try t overthrow the government the crackdown will be brutal- look at Syria. Most seem not want another revolution, they do not want the system to collapse to create a power vacuum. At all levels people have fingers in the pie. They complain about the government, yet they work with the government.

Iranian's that have the money do travel a lot- in fact many have dual nationality and business abroad. Dubai was almost built on Iranian business. they are free to go those countries that will give them a visa. We travelled Iran air which was great except that because of sanctions we had to stop in Belgrade to refuel. That option has also now closed (due to sanctions) I think that they will refuel in Yerevan. The service and food was better and it was cleaner than the other airlines. Except the toilets- at the end of a full flight! The planes are leased- Iran has to conform to international guidelines. Pilot was great.I wasn't too keen on the Internal flight Iranian flight, that was the second rocky flight in 8 flights in 2 weeks. An American air pilot was also bad.
The poor seems to be better off than during the Shah's time. There is obvious wealth in Iran- very swanky looking governmental skyscrapers, Marble architecture with ornate ironwork and specially treated glass. Cars that I have not seen before- top of the range BMW's and Mercedes. I'm not keen on the open street drains and am sure that the sewers need work- but it's not smelly like Vienna. The biggest problem is traffic and pollution, like Los Angeles Tehran is in a bowl, exacerbated by the dust storms caused by desert storm land erosion. I am sure that cars use poorly refined gasoline. Sanctions affect refined oil imports.
I was very disappointed to see people so despondent, they seems to be waiting on the outcome of Egypt and Syria. To my mind what they should have is another Mossadegh,. This was one of the UK's and America's biggest blunders. If anyone is to profit from Iran- then it should be Iranians and not Western oil companies? I was more suspicious of people being western spies in Iran than I was of government informants.
Iran has never preemptively attacked another country, although it has been attacked many times. Let's wait and see how it reacts to the changing regimes in Syria and Egypt.

I criticize the government of every country that I am in Iran US, UK Switzerland. The only politician I like is Obama and a few democrats. I don't understand clothing restrictions or sexual discrimination at all. I think that people should be allowed to walk naked in the streets and make love to whomever mutually likes them, no country i know fully accepts that.

I was shocked at how openly women discuss sexuality and relationships. Contraception is fully available, abortion very common and openly discussed and accepted-there seems to be no guilt or shame in abortion-try that in the US!
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