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  #961  
Old 27.09.2011, 19:21
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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1. Terrorists attack FROM egypt, at an area under constant supervision of the Egyptian Army.
Which is casus belli
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  #962  
Old 27.09.2011, 19:35
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Israel should stop killing Egyptian soldiers, that's true. But please, next time you write that, for the sake of balance, just also write that the Egyptians should respect foreign embassies.
One preceded the other, but I do agree that ugly scenes of mobs attacking diplomatic safe havens is deeply shameful. That is not legitimate protest, just thuggery. However again I think you expect too much, too soon from transitional authorities. Egyptair may have resumed flights, but many other aspects of daily life are still lacking, including adequate security and policing for all Egyptians.
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  #963  
Old 27.09.2011, 20:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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One preceded the other, but I do agree that ugly scenes of mobs attacking diplomatic safe havens is deeply shameful. That is not legitimate protest, just thuggery. However again I think you expect too much, too soon from transitional authorities. Egyptair may have resumed flights, but many other aspects of daily life are still lacking, including adequate security and policing for all Egyptians.
I agree with everything you say. I find fault when you only say some of it though. It irks me that Israel says only true but negative things about the Arabs and the Arabs say only true but negative things about Israel. It seems so biased. It feels like I'm listening to people in the pub talking about their football teams and I just want to grab them and say "whoever wins, whoever loses, your team is NOT unilaterally better than all the others."

It's just so unlikely that Egypt is "right" and that Israel is "wrong". That's not real life. It's all messy and whatnot. It's infantile to say "they were here first, they started it" etc. There was once a time when the region was uninhabited. Then a people moved there from Sumeria. Look back far enough and there's no distinction between the various tribes. Go towards the current date and it's gone proto-Arabs, Hebrews, Jews, Palestinians, Jews/Israelis. There's a mess. No one is right in this. It's terrible and heartbreaking. But it serves no one to choose teams unless you really feel you have to.
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  #964  
Old 27.09.2011, 21:20
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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... the Arabs say only true but negative things about Israel..
Castro is Arab ?

Actually, the Arab media doesn't usually report the Truth about Israel and when it does it's without context, so...
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  #965  
Old 27.09.2011, 21:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Castro is Arab ?
Nope, didn't say that. Rather there seem to be two "teams" and my point was that supporting either is a shame.
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  #966  
Old 27.09.2011, 21:31
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Nope, didn't say that. Rather there seem to be two "teams" and my point was that supporting either is a shame.
Neither did I.

The "league" contains:

22 "Teams" which are racist failures, violent & prone to start fights (and lose them). Although the budget is sometimes unlimited they never manage to join the proffesional league-

1 "Team" which is open, succesful & sometimes have to "play" against multiple rivals simultaneously. Never lost a "Game".

Egypt was seen by blue eyed optimists as a candidate to move up a league, but it won't.
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  #967  
Old 27.09.2011, 21:32
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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How you manage to deduce terrorist sympathies from a recommendation to stop killing the soldiers of your friends is beyond me

I hereby plead the 5th
Sadly friendly fire incidents do occur & you just have to suck it up not waste time & energy to pretend it is part of some strategy. I assume you were never in such a fire fight to know how easily such regrettable things can occur; another armchair strategist?
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  #968  
Old 27.09.2011, 22:07
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I agree with everything you say. I find fault when you only say some of it though. It irks me that Israel says only true but negative things about the Arabs and the Arabs say only true but negative things about Israel. It seems so biased. It feels like I'm listening to people in the pub talking about their football teams and I just want to grab them and say "whoever wins, whoever loses, your team is NOT unilaterally better than all the others."
Hence why it is important to have neutral, honest brokers in this process. There are plenty of countries willing to help, but for the mighty US veto which hinders all progress in this regard.
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  #969  
Old 27.09.2011, 22:12
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Hence why it is important to have neutral, honest brokers in this process. There are plenty of countries willing to help, but for the mighty US veto which hinders all progress in this regard.
Or.....

The might US veto acts to protect tiny Israel against the baying hoards of the Arab "nations" .... Or we could trying being unbiased here.
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  #970  
Old 27.09.2011, 22:21
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Hence why it is important to have neutral, honest brokers in this process. There are plenty of countries willing to help, but for the mighty US veto which hinders all progress in this regard.
About "it is important to have neutral, honest brokers in this process."

Ha ha - like who exactly?
Erdogan? Chavez? Castro? Blocher?

Name any politician anywhere & you can forget "neutral, honest"!
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  #971  
Old 27.09.2011, 22:29
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Hence why it is important to have neutral, honest brokers in this process. There are plenty of countries willing to help, but for the mighty US veto which hinders all progress in this regard.

Israel gave to Egypt:
1. The whole of Sinai (Even though the Beduin inhabitants are as Egyptian as Gaddafi and were not alloswed to own land by Cairo)
2. Mass tourism which employed thousands of Egyptians & Beduins
3. Built factories which Employed Egyptians.

Egypt, in return:
1. Made national heros of Egyptians who killed Israeli kids or attacked the Israeli Embassy
2. Demonised Israel in the media
3. Ostracsied any Egyptian who had open connection to Israel ("Anti Normalization").
4. Jailed Israelis on made up charges.
5. Turned a blind eye to weapon smuggling to Gaza.

What would a "Neutral, Honest Broker" say ?
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  #972  
Old 28.09.2011, 02:05
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Israel gave to Egypt:
1. The whole of Sinai (Even though the Beduin inhabitants are as Egyptian as Gaddafi and were not alloswed to own land by Cairo)
-
Israel did NOT "give" anything to Egypt but returned Sinaï to Egypt in exchange against peace (Camp David Accords and later the peace-treaty

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Israel gave to Egypt:
2. Mass tourism which employed thousands of Egyptians & Beduins
-
a result of Camp David and the Peace Treaty, and so quite normal, and again NOT something Israel "gave"

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Israel gave to Egypt:
3. Built factories which Employed Egyptians.
-
Israel built factories which thrived on employing low paid Egyptians .... isn't that a bit nearer to reality ?

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Egypt, in return:
1. Made national heros of Egyptians who killed Israeli kids or attacked the Israeli Embassy
-
WHO was made "national hero" in Egypt after those incidents ? Clearly no one at all

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2. Demonised Israel in the media
-
A generalisation. Egypt, even in the times of Nasserite censorship had several newspapers, and even if the reigns of Messrs Sadat and Mubarak were not up to "freedom of the media" really, there was a wide variety of newspapers and magazines, both in Arabic and in English and even in French in Egypt. Israel was not generally demonized.

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3. Ostracsied any Egyptian who had open connection to Israel ("Anti Normalization").
-
also this is an exaggeration. And not reality

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4. Jailed Israelis on made up charges.
-
Yes, such things DID happen, but how many Israelis really were jailed ? You might give some real details

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5. Turned a blind eye to weapon smuggling to Gaza.
-
Smuggling goods into Gaza was the only way to keep life up in Gaza. Whomever has had a military rifle in his hands and disassembled the stuff knows how easy it is to to carry the material simply as "technical spares". And as the transport of material into Gaza was not controlled, it is clear that also weapons found their way that way. Had Israel taken a less extreme stance in regard to Gaza, things might have been different
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  #973  
Old 28.09.2011, 03:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Won't Israeli's stop bitching a bit about how hopeless, innocent and victims they are.....Seriously, BiBi's speech in the UNGA was so pathetic that i cracked down laughing.

I think you need to be more realistic and face your problems instead of throwing your own shit on everyone else but yourself, if Israeli's wanna get a life, man up and get a life, thats it.

I won't even bother replying to your useless comments, you defo know the answers yourself.

On other news, Egypt Parliamentary Elections is 28 November CNN

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Israel gave to Egypt:
1. The whole of Sinai (Even though the Beduin inhabitants are as Egyptian as Gaddafi and were not alloswed to own land by Cairo)
2. Mass tourism which employed thousands of Egyptians & Beduins
3. Built factories which Employed Egyptians.

Egypt, in return:
1. Made national heros of Egyptians who killed Israeli kids or attacked the Israeli Embassy
2. Demonised Israel in the media
3. Ostracsied any Egyptian who had open connection to Israel ("Anti Normalization").
4. Jailed Israelis on made up charges.
5. Turned a blind eye to weapon smuggling to Gaza.

What would a "Neutral, Honest Broker" say ?
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  #974  
Old 28.09.2011, 22:43
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Cnogratulations on madtering the multi quote. If you can do that, maybe Egypt could learn how to be a decent country.

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Israel did NOT "give" anything to Egypt but returned Sinaï to Egypt in exchange against peace (Camp David Accords and later the peace-treaty
Israel gave land for peace. Egypt got the land but did not deliver the peace, more like an enhanced cease fire. Usually in war the losing side gives tangible assets, not this case - Hardly normal.

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Israel built factories which thrived on employing low paid Egyptians .... isn't that a bit nearer to reality ?
You make it sound easy, yet somwhow Israel managed this when other countries didn't. The employees of these factories will now be out of a job.


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WHO was made "national hero" in Egypt after those incidents ? Clearly no one at all
2 examples:
Wikipedia reference-linkSuleiman_Khater
The Climbing criminal, Ahmed al-Shahat.


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A generalisation. Egypt, even in the times of Nasserite censorship had several newspapers, and even if the reigns of Messrs Sadat and Mubarak were not up to "freedom of the media" really, there was a wide variety of newspapers and magazines, both in Arabic and in English and even in French in Egypt. Israel was not generally demonized.
False again. please find a single article positive Article about Israel in the Egyptian press since 1981. Antisemitic cartoons are common.


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Ostracsied any Egyptian who had open connection to Israel ("Anti Normalization").also this is an exaggeration. And not reality
False. See Wikipedia reference-linkAli_Salem. Name one prominent Egyptian writer who has open relationship with Israelisand is not ostracised. one.
-

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Jailed Israelis on made up charges. Yes, such things DID happen, but how many Israelis really were jailed ? You might give some real details
See Wikipedia reference-linkAzzam_Azzam. plus a a few other "spies"

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Smuggling goods into Gaza was the only way to keep life up in Gaza. Whomever has had a military rifle in his hands and disassembled the stuff knows how easy it is to to carry the material simply as "technical spares". And as the transport of material into Gaza was not controlled, it is clear that also weapons found their way that way. Had Israel taken a less extreme stance in regard to Gaza, things might have been different
Gaza was never even near famine. Wgypt could have & shoulf have stopped, at the very least, weapon smuggling. Israeli Civilians are targeted by terrorists, armed with weapons smuggled via Egypt. A direct violatino of the peace treaty and basic decency.

The last point is the most important - once a tipping point is reached, Israel might consider cutting the smuggling routes to Gaza, at Egypt's expense or reuniting the Gazans with Egypt - after all, there are Palestinians on both sides of the Rafah border.

Egypt has started to get serious about the smuggling - Drowning weapon smugglers in shit, an apropriate recent action.
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  #975  
Old 28.09.2011, 23:52
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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2 examples:
Wikipedia reference-linkSuleiman_Khater
The Climbing criminal, Ahmed al-Shahat.
[/URL] are common.
Suliman Khater was executed for his act by your friend Mubarak and his gang, Shahat took off an Israeli flag from the top of an Egyptian building, your embassy rented an apartment not owned the entire building, the others who took the flag from the balcony of the embassy are NOT heros cause it's illegal what they've done and we agree on that.

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See Wikipedia reference-linkAzzam_Azzam. plus a a few other "spies"
You send your spies and expect Egyptians to welcome them with flowers, what happened to the peace treaty again???.....this sound like total retard argument really

Btw, from the same expedia article you quoted

Quote:
Azzam was released on December 5, 2004. In return, Israel freed six jailed Egyptian students who were accused of planning terrorist attacks
1 adult to 6 students...are you f@%&ing kidding me!!
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  #976  
Old 29.09.2011, 00:17
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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this sound like total retard argument really
sad. .
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  #977  
Old 29.09.2011, 00:35
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Suliman Khater was executed for his act by your friend Mubarak and his gang, Shahat took off an Israeli flag from the top of an Egyptian building, your embassy rented an apartment not owned the entire building, the others who took the flag from the balcony of the embassy are NOT heros cause it's illegal what they've done and we agree on that.



You send your spies and expect Egyptians to welcome them with flowers, what happened to the peace treaty again???.....this sound like total retard argument really

Btw, from the same expedia article you quoted



1 adult to 6 students...are you f@%&ing kidding me!!
About "1 adult to 6 students...are you f@%&ing kidding me!!"

So how many students do you think should have been released?
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Old 29.09.2011, 00:43
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About "1 adult to 6 students...are you f@%&ing kidding me!!"

So how many students do you think should have been released?
What i meant was not about the released, what i meant is how many have been captured by Israel, as Pashosh is complaining that Egypt have lots of Israeli prisoners
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  #979  
Old 29.09.2011, 00:45
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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sad. .
Maybe me and you should sit, have a drink and talk sometime...I'm serious
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  #980  
Old 29.09.2011, 01:44
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Cnogratulations on madtering the multi quote. If you can do that, maybe Egypt could learn how to be a decent country.
-
Egypt has been a decent country all along, even if one with a serious democracy deficit .... but not lonesome in this in this world

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Israel gave land for peace. Egypt got the land but did not deliver the peace, more like an enhanced cease fire. Usually in war the losing side gives tangible assets, not this case - Hardly normal.
-
Egypt signed the Camp David accord and the Peace Treaty. In 1945, France did not get more territory from losing Germany, and accepted the vote in the Saarland in which the Saarländers chose to join Germany.

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You make it sound easy, yet somwhow Israel managed this when other countries didn't. The employees of these factories will now be out of a job.
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The employees of these factories, even if having got only lousy salaries in reality got more money per months than most of their compatriots, and now will sitl in front of their cute small houses along the Nile, drinking their Sheesha
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