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  #81  
Old 28.01.2011, 21:47
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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Turkey isn't exactly a Western style democracy. It is more of a democracy with a military watchdog which can intervene when the government-elected isn't in sync with them...
Nope, when the government isn't in sync with Ataturk's ideology that the army's job is to protect no matter what!
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  #82  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:02
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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Nope, when the government isn't in sync with Ataturk's ideology that the army's job is to protect no matter what!
But what kind of democracy is that??
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  #83  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:10
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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But what kind of democracy is that??
This is a topic for itself! But lets just say, that having the army in the background keeps Turkey to fall into the radicals mind. And because of it, Turkey is now a strong economical and political country.

Is it all good? Is it complete democracy? Let's keep it for an other thread!

(PS: My opinion? I am very happy they keep an eye on the government )
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  #84  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:21
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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I suspect this is like most revolutions. The people want to get rid of a bad leader & mass together but there is little thought about who will jump into the subsequent gap & take over.
Nevertheless I wish the people good luck & success.

There is no doubt El Badi was very soft on Iran when he ran the Atomic Inspection Agency so he would not be my favourite for the Egyptian leader job.
El Baradei and his role in the IAEA are very well respected.

Wikipedia:
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an attorney who headed the Egyptian Bar Association and often found himself at odds with the regime of Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser. ElBaradei's father was also a supporter of democratic rights in Egypt, supporting a free press and a legal system that was independent.[3] ElBaradei followed in his father's footsteps and earned his law degree at the University of Cairo in 1962.[4]

In his last speech to the IAEA Board of Governors in June 2009, ElBaradei stated that “the Agency has been able to continue to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material in Iran." He regretted, however, that "Iran has not implemented any of the measures called for by the Security Council and by the Agency's Board of Governors”. ElBaradei also said he was encouraged “by the new initiative of the United States to engage the Islamic Republic of Iran in direct dialogue, without preconditions and on the basis of mutual respect” and expressed hope “that Iran will respond to the US initiative with an equal gesture of goodwill and trust-building.” This gesture “could include implementing again the Agency's design information requirements and applying the provisions of the additional protocol.”

The International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors and UN Security Council have commended the ElBaradei for "professional and impartial efforts" to resolve all outstanding issues with Iran.[22][23] The Non-Aligned Movement has also reiterated "its full confidence in the impartiality and professionalism of the Secretariat of the IAEA."[24][25]
He could easily act as a bridge between Iran and the US.

As with situation in Iran Obama is dictating policy directly, echoing the 1st amendment.
In the meantime.... intermediaries are talking, the head of one Arab state has said that the Muburak regime is finished, the police are pulling back, Obama is putting the pressure on, the White House briefing room is still on hold. And Muburak is sitting singing Tomorrow and waiting for the sun to come up.

I think back to the UN guy whom I asked about Egypt in September and was told that the Military would install Gmal. As President it must be very difficult to direct change in foreign policy when those working within the organization at all levels may have established relationships, alliances and patterns of working with existing governments.

Gibbs in White House breifing states that the situation is to be resolved primarily by the Egyptian people. US assistance will be based on events in the coming few days. Obama had warned Muburak on many occasions about the need for reforms. He will now not phone Muburak and speak directly with him until Muburak addresses the Egyptian people.
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  #85  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:25
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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But what kind of democracy is that??
A Turkish view of democracy i.e not one based on a Western needs.
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  #86  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:33
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

Vodafone ( UK) switched of Egyptian phones and internet?
Press just asked Gibb to tel Vodafone to switch them back on! Gibbs said that Egypt should switch them back on.The US government's ability to collect information continues unhindered. There is an impression that if Muburak does not make concrete reforms (whatever that means) the US will cease to provide assistance, including military. This for me raises major question with regards to Gaza and the Egypt/ Israeli border. The grievances of Egypt are not a monolithic block related to the Muslim Brotherhood the people lack basic human rights (according to Gibbs).
The Pentagon is in touch with the military. The White House in touch with the Egyptian government etc. There seems to be a heavy warning from the US for the miltary to practice non-violence and restraint.

Last edited by hoppy; 28.01.2011 at 22:51.
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  #87  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:37
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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El Baradei and his role in the IAEA are very well respected.

Wikipedia:
He could easily act as a bridge between Iran and the US.

As with situation in Iran Obama is dictating policy directly, echoing the 1st amendment.
In the meantime.... intermediaries are talking, the head of one Arab state has said that the Muburak regime is finished, the police are pulling back, Obama is putting the pressure on, the White House briefing room is still on hold. And Muburak is sitting singing Tomorrow and waiting for the sun to come up.

I think back to the UN guy whom I asked about Egypt in September and was told that the Military would install Gmal. As President it must be very difficult to direct change in foreign policy when those working within the organization at all levels may have established relationships, alliances and patterns of working with existing governments.

Gibbs in White House breifing states that the situation is to be resolved primarily by the Egyptian people. US assistance will be based on events in the coming few days. Obama had warned Muburak on many occasions about the need for reforms. He will now not phone Muburak and speak directly with him until Muburak addresses the Egyptian people.
There are other views about El Baradei , for example from the Times
"This is Mohamed ElBaradei’s last year addressing the annual conference of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
He will not be universally missed. Long chided for being soft on Iran, he goes into this year’s conference amid a diplomatic storm over whether he has deliberately hidden evidence of Iran’s work on a nuclear bomb.

France and Israel have led the charge against Dr ElBaradei, saying that his latest report on Iran’s nuclear programme omitted evidence that the agency had been given about an alleged covert weaponisation plan.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said that the report did not reflect all that the agency knew about Iran’s “efforts to continue to pursue its military programme”. "
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  #88  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:39
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

Guess the US will have to realign their $upport for a new dictatorial regime to 'lead' Egypt, eh?
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  #89  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:51
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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This is a topic for itself! But lets just say, that having the army in the background keeps Turkey to fall into the radicals mind. And because of it, Turkey is now a strong economical and political country.

Is it all good? Is it complete democracy? Let's keep it for an other thread!

(PS: My opinion? I am very happy they keep an eye on the government )
Sorry Nil but I must disagree with you here. A true democracy is where the "folk" have their say whenever they vote. They can vote for an Islamic party if they wish; we can't decide for them!!! If an "Islamic" party does not deliver, guess what? they'll vote them out of office and they can kiss their chairs goodbye!

They, the "Turkish people" or any other "people" should be able to choose who leads them and able to vote out whomever they dislike!

Imagine the Queen takes out a Labour government because she thinks that they are radically liberal! then new elections are in, and a radical conservative government is elected than she takes them out too...would this still be a democracy??
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  #90  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:53
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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There are other views about El Baradei , for example from the Times
"This is Mohamed ElBaradei’s last year addressing the annual conference of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
He will not be universally missed. Long chided for being soft on Iran, he goes into this year’s conference amid a diplomatic storm over whether he has deliberately hidden evidence of Iran’s work on a nuclear bomb.

France and Israel have led the charge against Dr ElBaradei, saying that his latest report on Iran’s nuclear programme omitted evidence that the agency had been given about an alleged covert weaponisation plan.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said that the report did not reflect all that the agency knew about Iran’s “efforts to continue to pursue its military programme”. "
Consider this scenario:
The Mid-East becomes the dominant power globally, and in the US, the voters elect a Republican government, The Mid-East intervenes because the Republican party's policies aren't exactly friendly towards Islam, and their relations with the ME aren't amicable. Does this mean, that the ME has every right to tell us to vote for a "friendlier" Democratic party?!?

I honestly think that Iran, like Israel, France, and US should have the right to own nuclear weapons...or all must be coerced into abandoning them altogether, only then will we live in a peaceful world!!
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  #91  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:55
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

Vodafone Egypt.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/v...rnet-blackout/
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  #92  
Old 28.01.2011, 23:11
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

Meaningful rise and fall of internet traffic:
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egypt-jan-25-day-revolution-update-mubarak-resigns-egypt.jpg  
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  #93  
Old 28.01.2011, 23:13
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

Why are the Turkish government & Nuclear proliferation discussed on this thread ?
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  #94  
Old 28.01.2011, 23:17
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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Consider this scenario:
The Mid-East becomes the dominant power globally, and in the US, the voters elect a Republican government, The Mid-East intervenes because the Republican party's policies aren't exactly friendly towards Islam, and their relations with the ME aren't amicable. Does this mean, that the ME has every right to tell us to vote for a "friendlier" Democratic party?!?

I honestly think that Iran, like Israel, France, and US should have the right to own nuclear weapons...or all must be coerced into abandoning them altogether, only then will we live in a peaceful world!!
So you are asking us to imagine "The Mid-East becomes the dominant power globally"
This means the following countries have joined together to form a dominant power; Bahrain, Iraq, Iran , Israel ,Jordan, Kuwait , Lebanon, Oman, Palestin, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Yemen.

This scenario is too daft to consider further - sorry!
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Old 28.01.2011, 23:20
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

Muburak views in Wikileaked documents

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"He ( Muburak) can harken back to the Shah of Iran: the U.S. encouraged him to accept reforms, only to watch the country fall into the hands of revolutionary religious extremists. Wherever he has seen these U.S. efforts, he can point to the chaos and loss of stability that ensued."
Quote:
"He can harken back to the Shah of Iran: the U.S. encouraged him to accept reforms, only to watch the country fall into the hands of revolutionary religious extremists. Wherever he has seen these U.S. efforts, he can point to the chaos and loss of stability that ensued."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...70R7QV20110128

The military have to switch allegiance to El Baradei
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  #96  
Old 28.01.2011, 23:35
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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Why are the Turkish government & Nuclear proliferation discussed on this thread ?


But they are being discussed because

1. Baradei's move to Cairo is significant, he may become an interim leader
2 Baradei is the former cheif of the IEAE
2.The role of any military in revolution is significant
3. In Turkey the military, as now in Egypt, are instrumental in maintaining the balance of power.

So now let's discuss possible reasons why you want these subjects off the thread

1, Israel illegally possesses a massive nuclear arsenal
2. Economically Turkey is doing very well in the region Turkey may yet become part of the EU part of the EU
3.Turkey can not be demonized as some backward middle-eastern country
4 Turkey, has had major political divisions with Israel
5 The US has friendly relations with Turkey
6 Turkey is often used for US diplomacy efforts in the ME.
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  #97  
Old 28.01.2011, 23:39
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

Urgent: 22.38
Important announcement due in a few minutes from speaker of parliament.
Probably announce Mubarak fled? Or à coup ?

Waiting midnight in egypt to announce president vacancy of power?

Update: Mubarak to make a speech

Last edited by MrVertigo; 29.01.2011 at 00:12. Reason: info update
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Old 28.01.2011, 23:56
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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Sorry Nil but I must disagree with you here. A true democracy is where the "folk" have their say whenever they vote. They can vote for an Islamic party if they wish; we can't decide for them!!! If an "Islamic" party does not deliver, guess what? they'll vote them out of office and they can kiss their chairs goodbye!

They, the "Turkish people" or any other "people" should be able to choose who leads them and able to vote out whomever they dislike!

Imagine the Queen takes out a Labour government because she thinks that they are radically liberal! then new elections are in, and a radical conservative government is elected than she takes them out too...would this still be a democracy??
But they do vote for who they want, look who is in the post now. And as I said earlier, this isn't the topic. If you want, we can move this conversation on a different topic.
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Old 29.01.2011, 00:18
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"



Tisdall at the Guardian writes
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Washington needs a friendly regime in Cairo more than it needs a democratic government
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Old 29.01.2011, 00:26
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Re: Egypt- "Jan25_ Day of revolution"

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Urgent: 22.38
Important announcement due in a few minutes from speaker of parliament.
Probably announce Mubarak fled? Or à coup ?

Waiting midnight in egypt to announce president vacancy of power?

Update: Mubarak to make a speech
I am listening to it.
As usual, dictators have weak ears, they only hear very loud shouts not the low ones!
He wants to change the government, but funny enough the way he talks, meaning those under him has been bad so time to change them!
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