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  #1201  
Old 28.01.2013, 04:29
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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There's a big difference between being political opponent and facing armed militias which is the case of the MB, we went all the way to discussing, negotiating and being a decent opposition that is willing to participate in constructive decision making to build the country.

This all ended the moment we found MB's armed militias in the streets attacking opposition and demonstrators with no investigation whatsoever in such incidents & MB's totally refusing to participate in any political dialogue, this took the whole the situation to totally another level, we're not talking about political opposition here, we're taking about terrorism and right to defend ourselves and our country from being hijacked by punch or fanatics and armed terrorists.

P.S: We're not talking about just revolutionaries here.....the entire nation apart from the MB's are actually going against them....so if the voice of the nation isn't heard, then what else
And here, most Europeans will object. You do NOT vote into power a totalitarian party and their candidate for president, and then, AFTER you have done so start to protest and force them out again. You vote in favour of parties whose positions you like, and you vote in favour of a candidate who looks sensible and open for compromise.

Look at Israel. The Israelis respect the political-economic management of Mr Netanyahu but not so much his political agenda. They now have made him chief of the most important party in parliament but not given him a clear majority so that he now has to find a coalition. I generally DISagree with Mr Netanyahu and most likely will object to the positions of his government, but the Israelis have shown to understand democracy. Once, the Egyptians start to vote in favour of ideas they really like, things will improve.

Look at Germany. The West-Germans, when Franz-Josef Strauss wanted to become Federal Chancellor clearly refused and voted against him, as they rejected his excessively conservative position. The Germans much later, when Mr Kohl wanted to be chancellor again, after far more than a decade, voted against him and in favour of Mr Schröder as they wanted change. THIS is working democracy.
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  #1202  
Old 28.01.2013, 21:16
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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And here, most Europeans will object. You do NOT vote into power a totalitarian party and their candidate for president, and then, AFTER you have done so start to protest and force them out again. You vote in favour of parties whose positions you like, and you vote in favour of a candidate who looks sensible and open for compromise.

Look at Israel. The Israelis respect the political-economic management of Mr Netanyahu but not so much his political agenda. They now have made him chief of the most important party in parliament but not given him a clear majority so that he now has to find a coalition. I generally DISagree with Mr Netanyahu and most likely will object to the positions of his government, but the Israelis have shown to understand democracy. Once, the Egyptians start to vote in favour of ideas they really like, things will improve.

Look at Germany. The West-Germans, when Franz-Josef Strauss wanted to become Federal Chancellor clearly refused and voted against him, as they rejected his excessively conservative position. The Germans much later, when Mr Kohl wanted to be chancellor again, after far more than a decade, voted against him and in favour of Mr Schröder as they wanted change. THIS is working democracy.
Non of them had organized armed militias attacking civilians, calling them infidels and threatening to kill them on public T.V
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Old 28.01.2013, 21:26
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Apparently Egyptians were waiting for this curfew / emergency laws.....everyone & i mean everyone took the streets 15 minutes before the curfew, they did a count down loudly then shot fireworks at 9 PM
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Old 28.01.2013, 22:08
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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They (MB) won't go strict and probably have a good development strategies


I'm really proud to be from such a great country


investment in Egypt is very high in demand, just the fact Jan 2012 passed without any problems, the EGX rose over 28% in 1 month....first we get SCAF off power and it won't take long to be back on track and even better
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  #1205  
Old 29.01.2013, 03:06
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Non of them had organized armed militias attacking civilians, calling them infidels and threatening to kill them on public T.V
Maybe. But I was absolutely shocked when the Egyptians first gave a parliamentary majority to the M.B. and then even voted one of that bunch into the presidency. If you compare it with Germany 1933. Hitler did NOT have a parliamentary majority then. Back to Egypt. The M.B. when getting voted into power could take over the full apparatus of the Ancien Régime

Look at France in 1968. Most French, particularily the younger ones, were fed up with C.d.G., but did NOT vote the Communists into power but Georges Pompidou

Similar with West Germany in the same period. A majority, after the lengthy reign of Messrs Adenauer, Erhard and Kiesinger wanted a change, but of course did NOT vote for the far left but for the very democratic and decent Social Democratic Party of Messrs Brandt and Schmidt plus the Liberals of Mr Scheel.

I mean, that the M.B. is a totalitarian party was/is known since the days of Sheikh Ahmed Hassan el-Banna.

So that how the Egyptians voted revealed a definite lack of understanding for democracy as an idea. And of pluralism as THE idea.

Look at Switzerland. The Federal Government contains people from the
- Social Democratic Party (2)
- Liberal Party (mainly Protestant) (2)
- Christian People's Party (Catholic) (1)
- BDP (Liberal Right Wing, mainly Protestant) (1)
- SVP (Conservative Right Wing) (1)
which means a very broad coalition
--- other European countries also have 4 parties or 5 parties coalition governments. It makes decisions difficult but ensures that a wide part of the population IS represented in government

Back to Egypt. The present situation results in either Mr Mursi stepping down and getting off new presidential and parliamentary elections, OR the military taking over political control
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Old 29.01.2013, 03:30
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Amazing is how swiftly the M.B. lost all credibility and has shown its ability for modern governing. You possibly have Iran in your mind, but the Iranian fundamentalists could play the "Persion nationalism card". Governments in the Arab World however have to face the realitiy that those mostly artificial countries cannot work with any local nationalism and that the "Islam" card does not really play in practical politics.
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Old 29.01.2013, 14:02
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Hard to believe that the country will stabilise when you've got maniacs like this raging around:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21228852

Clearly, these guys either don't respect democracy, or have a different understanding of it than everyone else. The fact is that Morsi was voted in. If they don't like him, they can and should vote him out the next time the elections come round.

Perhaps they're expecting crazy miracles? And a transition to peaceful and civil society after decades and decades of dictatorship?

After Morsi won the vote, and then passed his constitution through two additional rounds of voting, nothing else summarises the likes of Baradei and the MB opponents other than to say they are extremely poor losers.
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  #1208  
Old 29.01.2013, 15:17
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Maybe. But I was absolutely shocked when the Egyptians first gave a parliamentary majority to the M.B. and then even voted one of that bunch into the presidency. If you compare it with Germany 1933. Hitler did NOT have a parliamentary majority then. Back to Egypt. The M.B. when getting voted into power could take over the full apparatus of the Ancien Régime

Look at France in 1968. Most French, particularily the younger ones, were fed up with C.d.G., but did NOT vote the Communists into power but Georges Pompidou

Similar with West Germany in the same period. A majority, after the lengthy reign of Messrs Adenauer, Erhard and Kiesinger wanted a change, but of course did NOT vote for the far left but for the very democratic and decent Social Democratic Party of Messrs Brandt and Schmidt plus the Liberals of Mr Scheel.

I mean, that the M.B. is a totalitarian party was/is known since the days of Sheikh Ahmed Hassan el-Banna.

So that how the Egyptians voted revealed a definite lack of understanding for democracy as an idea. And of pluralism as THE idea.

Look at Switzerland. The Federal Government contains people from the
- Social Democratic Party (2)
- Liberal Party (mainly Protestant) (2)
- Christian People's Party (Catholic) (1)
- BDP (Liberal Right Wing, mainly Protestant) (1)
- SVP (Conservative Right Wing) (1)
which means a very broad coalition
--- other European countries also have 4 parties or 5 parties coalition governments. It makes decisions difficult but ensures that a wide part of the population IS represented in government

Back to Egypt. The present situation results in either Mr Mursi stepping down and getting off new presidential and parliamentary elections, OR the military taking over political control
Military taking control seems more likely now, see today's newspapers e.g.
"Egypt's armed forces chief has warned the current political crisis "could lead to a collapse of the state".
General Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, in comments posted on the military's Facebook page, said such a collapse could "threaten future generations".
He made his statement following a large military deployment in three cities along the Suez Canal where a state of emergency has been declared."
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  #1209  
Old 29.01.2013, 19:02
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Hard to believe that the country will stabilise when you've got maniacs like this raging around:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21228852

Clearly, these guys either don't respect democracy, or have a different understanding of it than everyone else. The fact is that Morsi was voted in. If they don't like him, they can and should vote him out the next time the elections come round.

Perhaps they're expecting crazy miracles? And a transition to peaceful and civil society after decades and decades of dictatorship?

After Morsi won the vote, and then passed his constitution through two additional rounds of voting, nothing else summarises the likes of Baradei and the MB opponents other than to say they are extremely poor losers.
Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways. A nation which votes a president and a party into power which the nation neither loves nor supports, cannot be expected to recognize either as "having been elected". And those elected tend to regard themselves as elected for live.

Under the present circumstances, a military government might be the least bad option
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Old 30.01.2013, 00:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways. A nation which votes a president and a party into power which the nation neither loves nor supports, cannot be expected to recognize either as "having been elected". And those elected tend to regard themselves as elected for live.

Under the present circumstances, a military government might be the least bad option
Either they were elected or they weren't. If they were elected without the love of the people, the fact is that they still remain elected.
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  #1211  
Old 30.01.2013, 00:38
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Regarding the "Blackbloc", i don't support their ideology / body but this was an expected reaction after the "Itihadya" incident when MB militias stormed the protesters sit in beside the presidential palace with weapons....just to mention it, they actually raided Semiramis Intercontinental Hotel and fought against / arrested thugs who were looting it yesterday night while police were shooting gas outside against the revolutionaries & hotel thanked them publicly.



Regarding the military government, i think have a very rare opportunity to get back to power fo several reasons, mostly the Egyptian people refuses military order now, specially after their 2 years failure + they refuse they have any political role anymore.

Regarding the emergency law / curfew, It totally failed cause people are actually celebrating in the streets everyday against it which led morsi to order the governors to lift it off
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  #1212  
Old 30.01.2013, 00:59
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Not sure why someone would try to pull something as amateurish as this...

https://twitter.com/AymanM/status/296342342544269312
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  #1213  
Old 30.01.2013, 01:01
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Just came across this which doesn't do the MB any favours...

https://twitter.com/AymanM/status/296342342544269312
They're liars and getting exposed day by day...that's another good reason to overthrow them
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  #1214  
Old 30.01.2013, 06:53
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Either they were elected or they weren't. If they were elected without the love of the people, the fact is that they still remain elected.
This may be. But also in Europe, elected people were at times forced out in spite of having been elected. Charles de Gaulle had been clearly re-elected in 1965 and was forced out in 1968, not via parliament but by popular protests.
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Old 30.01.2013, 09:05
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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This may be. But also in Europe, elected people were at times forced out in spite of having been elected. Charles de Gaulle had been clearly re-elected in 1965 and was forced out in 1968, not via parliament but by popular protests.
We could have used some of that French revolutionary spirit when Blair was in charge...
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Old 05.02.2013, 14:56
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Headline today "Ahmadinejad becomes first Iranian head of state to visit Egypt since 1979"

I expect the Pharoah is looking for tips on how to suppress & kill peaceful protestors & still survive in office
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Old 11.02.2013, 22:44
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Egypt bans youtube.

Silly judge: what's wrong with the good old hostage taking ? sorry - putting youtube employees on trial with some trumped up charges ("Insulting the egytian government") and then "negotiating".
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Old 07.03.2013, 21:51
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Hostage taking worked for the Tarabeen Beduin of Ras Sudr.
Maybe they should continue to negotiate and get a fair share of the oil & tourism revenues from the Egyptians.
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Old 12.03.2013, 19:16
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Wonder what the Egyptian govt plans to use for money?
I do not see the Pharoah introducing any new taxes any time soon

"Egypt said on Tuesday it would not sign any "emergency" loan with the International Monetary Fund, ruling out stop-gap funding to tide it over as it struggles with a soaring budget deficit and falling currency reserves.
Egypt has been seeking a full $4.8 billion from the IMF instead in order to stave off a balance of payments crisis, but securing the aid would involve a commitment to austerity measures that are likely to lead to unrest at a time when President Mohamed Mursi is already struggling to maintain law and order.
The IMF said on Monday that Egypt had the option of using the Rapid Financing Instrument, a lending facility designed to provide rapid and limited assistance to member countries.
Analysts say such short-term funding would be a useful compromise for the government while it negotiates an IMF standby loan programme and could help the country scrape through until after parliamentary elections.
Cabinet spokesman Alaa el-Hadidi said on Tuesday, however, that Egypt was not interested in this option and that any loan agreement would be within the framework of the country's economic programme."
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Old 12.03.2013, 21:26
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Wonder what the Egyptian govt plans to use for money?
I do not see the Pharoah introducing any new taxes any time soon

"Egypt said on Tuesday it would not sign any "emergency" loan with the International Monetary Fund, ruling out stop-gap funding to tide it over as it struggles with a soaring budget deficit and falling currency reserves.
Egypt has been seeking a full $4.8 billion from the IMF instead in order to stave off a balance of payments crisis, but securing the aid would involve a commitment to austerity measures that are likely to lead to unrest at a time when President Mohamed Mursi is already struggling to maintain law and order.
The IMF said on Monday that Egypt had the option of using the Rapid Financing Instrument, a lending facility designed to provide rapid and limited assistance to member countries.
Analysts say such short-term funding would be a useful compromise for the government while it negotiates an IMF standby loan programme and could help the country scrape through until after parliamentary elections.
Cabinet spokesman Alaa el-Hadidi said on Tuesday, however, that Egypt was not interested in this option and that any loan agreement would be within the framework of the country's economic programme."
Hosni Mubarak was the first and only post-Napoleonic ruler of Egypt who was able to bring the finances under control and at the same time bring about economic growth. Mursi & Co now have to see that this task is not so easy. At the other hand, Mr Mursi may be reminded of what King Hussein bin Talal, who had gone to High School in Alexandria once, said about the Egyptians "They are very patient and tolerant people, but once they are fed up, they indeed ARE fed and totally so" .

Looks as if Mursi & Co used up their political credit totally
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