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  #1281  
Old 23.07.2013, 14:16
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

The military ruling junta continue to hold Morsi hostage.

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  #1282  
Old 23.07.2013, 18:01
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

"Military Junta" ? hostage ?

This is Egyptian democracy at work. First "remove" the "president" (current location: unknown). then creatively think of a conspiracy plot (remember to involve the US and Israel). Then use tried and tested methods to get the "president" to confess (Mowvich's friends can be very persuasive).

The new "President" knows his place.
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  #1283  
Old 28.07.2013, 03:59
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Egypt: More than 100 killed in Cairo massacre



Cairo witnesses most deadly state-led massacre since Mubarak's ouster
A supporter of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi tries to take cover as a police officer uses a shotgun during clashes in Nasr city area, east of Cairo July 27, 2013. (Reuters/Asmaa Waguih)

A supporter of deposed Egyptian president Mohamed Mursi tries to take cover as a police officer uses a shotgun during clashes in the Nasr City area in eastern Cairo on July 27, 2013. (Reuters/Asmaa Waguih)

London, Asharq Al-Awsat—More than 100 people have been reported killed by security officials in Egypt in what represents the worst state-led massacre since former president Hosni Mubarak’s ouster.

The violence took place in the early hours of Saturday morning at a sit-in at Raaba Al-Adawiya square in eastern Cairo, where supporters of recently ousted president Mohamed Mursi supporters have been camped out since July 3.

Egypt’s health ministry reported on Saturday that 38 people were killed, while the Muslim Brotherhood claimed that at least 139 people were killed and 4,500 others wounded in the attack.

The Muslim Brotherhood issued a statement on its official website on Saturday reporting that the violence began after security forces fired tear gas to disperse crowds at approximately 2 a.m. Following this, live ammunition was reportedly fired at the pro-Mursi protesters.

Initial reports indicate that the violence erupted after some Mursi supporters attempted to block a main road in the area overnight, forcing the military to respond.

The Brotherhood statement quoted Hisham Ibrahim, the field hospital director at Rabaa Al-Adawiya, as saying that most of those injured or killed were shot in the head, neck and chest by snipers.

For his part, Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Gehad El-Haddad said: “They are not shooting to wound; they are shooting to kill,” adding, “The bullet wounds are in the head and chest.”

However, Egyptian state news agency MENA quoted a security official as saying that no live ammunition had been used by the security forces on the ground.

The official claimed that the security forces had been trying to stop fighting between rival sides. He added that eight security officials had been injured in the violence

The violence took place after Egyptian interior minister Mohamed Ibrahim took the decision to end the weeks-long pro-Mursi sit-in outside the Rabaa Al-Adawiya mosque in eastern Cairo. Ibrahim said he took this decision after local residents complained about the continued presence of the Islamist demonstrators.

Ibrahim said that the Rabaa Al-Adawiya protests would be “brought to an end soon and in a legal manner,” with an order from the public prosecutor. It is not yet known whether Saturday’s violence was part of a sanctioned attempt to oust the pro-Mursi supporters from Rabaa Al-Adawiya square.

There were also clashes in the northern city of Alexandria, where reports indicate that at least 10 people were killed in violence between supports and opponents of the deposed president.

The latest bloodshed took place the day after supporters and opponents of deposed Islamist president Mohamed Mursi staged rival rallies across the country. Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians took to the streets in Egypt on Friday, exposing the deep state of polarization in the country.

Egyptian army chief Gen. Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi had initially called for a mass demonstration on Friday in support of the military and against “terrorism” and “violence,” while the Muslim Brotherhood had called for a counter demonstration against the “bloody military coup,” calling for Mursi’s reinstatement.

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  #1284  
Old 28.07.2013, 04:04
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

On the other side of Cairo there is a carnival atmosphere in Tahrir Sq



This is completely unconscionable, how they can celebrate whilst their fellow Egyptians are being cut down by Army snipers. God help Egypt.
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Old 28.07.2013, 11:55
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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On the other side of Cairo there is a carnival atmosphere in Tahrir Sq



This is completely unconscionable, how they can celebrate whilst their fellow Egyptians are being cut down by Army snipers. God help Egypt.
Army snipers ? The doctor said snipers and nothing else

The Egyptians in a protest-vote voted heavily in favour of the MB at a time when the other parties were not yet really organised. And so, to celebrate the end of what might have become a Tehran-like dictatorship is very well justified

You might look back at the history of "Egyptian democracy". There was a parliament between 1922 and 1952, but dominated by the party of the big land-owners who practically bought their majorities. And then the multi-party parliaments General Mubarak style. Between the 1950ies and until Mubarak rose to power, Egypt was a one-party state (Arab Socialist Union) . General Mubarak was THE one who allowed free and open discussion in the country, even if the "democracy-creed" of that SovietUnion educated General had its limits

And you may have read that local residents complained about the continued presence of the Mursi-ists in their area, so that the law-enforcers and the army had to re-establish law-and-order
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  #1286  
Old 28.07.2013, 16:02
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Army snipers ? The doctor said snipers and nothing else
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Some casualties reported seeing police or army snipers firing on protesters from buildings inside the nearby Al-Azhar University, and medics said the accuracy of the shooting suggested that snipers may have been in action.

"The injuries were very precise – which suggests they were shot by snipers," said Dr Mohamed Lotfy, in charge of the clinic's medical supplies. "There were bullet holes in the centre of the forehead and right in the back of the skull. It was not just shooting to injure. They were shooting to kill."
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The Egyptians in a protest-vote voted heavily in favour of the MB at a time when the other parties were not yet really organised. And so, to celebrate the end of what might have become a Tehran-like dictatorship is very well justified
In Britain we call this moving the goal posts. An election process was established, all sides had the time to create a support base, field candidates etc.. and the best they could come up with was the Muslim Brotherhood and Ahmed Shafiq, a throwback to the Mubarek era and a man so corrupt that he sought assurances that he wouldn't go to jail if he lost the election No, the MB were the democraticlaly elected party in Egypt and for better or worse the only way to properly unseat them is either impeachment of the President or at the ballot box. It would have been far better for Morsi to have ridden out his presidency and then be toppled in 4 years time

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And you may have read that local residents complained about the continued presence of the Mursi-ists in their area, so that the law-enforcers and the army had to re-establish law-and-order
So the way to deal with a public order offence is to shoot the protesters dead??? Please come back Hosni, all is forgiven

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  #1287  
Old 29.07.2013, 08:23
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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In Britain we call this moving the goal posts. An election process was established, all sides had the time to create a support base, field candidates etc.. and the best they could come up with was the Muslim Brotherhood and Ahmed Shafiq, a throwback to the Mubarek era and a man so corrupt that he sought assurances that he wouldn't go to jail if he lost the election No, the MB were the democraticlaly elected party in Egypt and for better or worse the only way to properly unseat them is either impeachment of the President or at the ballot box. It would have been far better for Morsi to have ridden out his presidency and then be toppled in 4 years time, than this slippery slope towards civil war

So the way to deal with a public order offence is to shoot the protesters dead??? Please come back Hosni, all is forgiven
It is the same police and the same army as in the days of President Mubarak and the days of President Mursi, and worse, the same Mukhaberat --- and so, the same methods

and NO, the MB was built up since the 1930ies (est'd by Sheikh Ahmed Hassan el-Banna) while the other parties were absolutely new. The population had no experience with democracy and the MB chaps, once in power, almost immediately, adopted dictatorial methods.

General as-Sisi made a difference in so far as he did not take political office, but left the presidency to a well-reputed judge, the vice-presidency to Mr El-Baradei and the post of PrimeMinister to an expert of economic affairs. Also the ministers are experts and not generals.
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  #1288  
Old 02.08.2013, 01:15
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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It is the same police and the same army as in the days of President Mubarak and the days of President Mursi, and worse, the same Mukhaberat --- and so, the same methods

and NO, the MB was built up since the 1930ies (est'd by Sheikh Ahmed Hassan el-Banna) while the other parties were absolutely new. The population had no experience with democracy and the MB chaps, once in power, almost immediately, adopted dictatorial methods.

General as-Sisi made a difference in so far as he did not take political office, but left the presidency to a well-reputed judge, the vice-presidency to Mr El-Baradei and the post of PrimeMinister to an expert of economic affairs. Also the ministers are experts and not generals.
I think the "opposition" made a basic tactical error. They put up 2 candidates which split the vote & left the field clear for the MB to be clear winners.
Of course the "opposition" were never clearly defined & contained many diverse groups so maybe one single candidate was never a viable option?

About "as in the days of President Mubarak and the days of President Mursi, and worse, the same Mukhaberat --- and so, the same methods "
Sadly so, the same people & infrastructure are still existing so the easiest option is just to switch them on again
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  #1289  
Old 02.08.2013, 14:52
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

I can't quite believe how stupid and crass Kerry's statements are?? Who is writing this material, SCAF??

Egypt army 'restoring democracy', says John Kerry

US Secretary of State John Kerry has said Egypt's military was "restoring democracy" when it ousted elected President Mohammed Morsi last month.

Mr Kerry said the removal was at the request of "millions and millions of people".

His remarks came as police prepare to disperse two pro-Morsi sit-ins in the capital, Cairo.

Egypt's interior ministry has promised Mr Morsi's supporters "safe exit" if they quickly leave the camps.

The country's cabinet on Wednesday ordered police to end the protests, calling them a "national security threat".

'Asked to intervene'
Washington has refused to describe Mr Morsi's removal as a "coup". Doing so would require the US government to cut off its estimated $1.5bn (£1bn) in annual aid to Egypt.

Correspondents say Mr Kerry's latest comments will be seen in Egypt as supportive of the interim government.

In an television interview in Pakistan, Mr Kerry said: "The military was asked to intervene by millions and millions of people, all of whom were afraid of a descendance into chaos, into violence.

"And the military did not take over, to the best of our judgement - so far. To run the country, there's a civilian government. In effect, they were restoring democracy."

Mr Kerry also warned against further bloodshed, according to AFP news agency.

He said Washington was "very, very concerned" about the killing of dozens of pro-Morsi protesters in clashes with security forces, calling it "absolutely unacceptable".

Thousands of supporters of Mr Morsi have defied new warnings from the military-backed cabinet by continuing their sit-ins.

The main protest camp is at a square near the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in the capital's north-east, where clashes left some 70 people dead last Saturday, and in Nahda Square near the main campus of Cairo University.

Demonstrators there have already ignored previous threats of dispersal.

They want to see Mr Morsi - Egypt's first democratically elected president - reinstated. The Islamist leader was removed by the army on 3 July, after just one year in office.

It came after mass rallies in which millions of Egyptians calling for his removal took to the streets.

Egypt's interior ministry released a statement on Thursday saying it called "on those in Rabaa al-Adawiya and Nahda squares to let reason and the national interest prevail, and to quickly leave".

The ministry "pledges a safe exit and full protection to whoever responds to this appeal", it added.

Ministry spokesman Hany Abdel Latif told Reuters there was "no specified date" for the removal.

Protesters 'determined'
Supporters of Mr Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood movement have remained defiant.

Essam el-Erian, vice-president of the Freedom and Justice Party, the Brotherhood's political wing, said the protesters would not be deterred.

"There are expectations of a massacre taking place in front of the eyes of the whole world," he said.

"The free people in Egypt and the world must stand against this stupid cabinet mandate for the police to end the sit-in protests."

An African Union delegation confirmed on Wednesday that it had met Mr Morsi, who has not been seen in public since being ousted.

He had received no official visitors until Tuesday, when he met EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton who said he was "well".

The ousted leader has been formally remanded in custody at an undisclosed location, according to a judicial order.

He has been accused of the "premeditated murder of some prisoners, officers and soldiers" when he and several Muslim Brotherhood leaders were freed during a breakout at a Cairo prison in January 2011.

He is alleged to have plotted attacks on jails in the uprising that overthrew President Hosni Mubarak.

Mr Morsi is also accused of conspiring with the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip and has strong links with the Muslim Brotherhood.

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  #1290  
Old 03.08.2013, 00:00
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

It is a mess isn't it?

I think Morsi went too far into the direction of strict conformance to Muslim ideas & he did not do enough to protect other groups (like Coptic Christians) from ethnic cleansing. He certainly failed to represent all groups in his country.

Of course this is not justification for killing hundreds of his supporters.

The military seem to be trying to form some sort of interim civil government rather than a simple military takeover which is a little bit positive.

I do not see a geographic solution whereby certain areas in Egypt could be allocated to different ethnic/religous groups. I also do not see that the old "live & let live" approach between the different communities can be restored...

Overall as said before it is a mess & I do not see any simple way forward.
Restoring Morsi to president will simply ignite another load of protests regardless of whether this is the "correct" solution...
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  #1291  
Old 14.08.2013, 17:40
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Genocide on the streets of Cairo and ruling junta declares month long state of emergency (to be rolled over and extended indefinitely just like the Mubarek era ). It would be nice if the anti-Morsi brigade now admitted that they were duped by the military and that nothing good ever comes from the barrel of a gun.

No government which shoots unarmed protesters, silences dissenting TV/radio stations and locks up opponents etc.. can ever be trusted to implement democracy. Very sad day for Egypt
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  #1292  
Old 15.08.2013, 00:57
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Genocide on the streets of Cairo and ruling junta declares month long state of emergency (to be rolled over and extended indefinitely just like the Mubarek era ). It would be nice if the anti-Morsi brigade now admitted that they were duped by the military and that nothing good ever comes from the barrel of a gun.

No government which shoots unarmed protesters, silences dissenting TV/radio stations and locks up opponents etc.. can ever be trusted to implement democracy. Very sad day for Egypt
As I wrote in my last post; "Overall as said before it is a mess & I do not see any simple way forward."

Every sympathy for the family & friends of the victims; just shows how difficult it is to create real change.
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  #1293  
Old 15.08.2013, 01:11
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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It would be nice if the anti-Morsi brigade now admitted that they were duped by the military and that nothing good ever comes from the barrel of a gun.
Nor from the pages of religious books, especially when it comes to governing a country.
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  #1294  
Old 15.08.2013, 03:12
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Genocide on the streets of Cairo and ruling junta declares month long state of emergency (to be rolled over and extended indefinitely just like the Mubarek era ). It would be nice if the anti-Morsi brigade now admitted that they were duped by the military and that nothing good ever comes from the barrel of a gun.

No government which shoots unarmed protesters, silences dissenting TV/radio stations and locks up opponents etc.. can ever be trusted to implement democracy. Very sad day for Egypt
see the clever response from El Baradei our man just waiting in the wings
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  #1295  
Old 15.08.2013, 10:35
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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see the clever response from El Baradei our man just waiting in the wings
I think the one thing the anti and pro-Morsi camps agree on is that the man is a coward. Resigning in protest may play well in Vienna but in Cairo he's simply seen as running away from trouble and possible war crimes proceedings. Rather than be a vocal thorn in the side of the Junta, he chooses to once again be an insignificant talking head.

Anyway here is what Egypt now faces for an indeterminate period of time:

Emergency law in Egypt
  • Curfew in Cairo and other provinces from 19:00 local time (17:00 GMT) to 06:00 local time daily
  • Arrest of suspects deemed dangerous to public order
  • Army to help police maintain security
  • Limited movement of people and traffic
  • Surveillance on messages and monitoring of media

Mabrouk!!!
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Old 15.08.2013, 13:20
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I think the one thing the anti and pro-Morsi camps agree on is that the man is a coward. Resigning in protest may play well in Vienna but in Cairo he's simply seen as running away from trouble and possible war crimes proceedings. Rather than be a vocal thorn in the side of the Junta, he chooses to once again be an insignificant talking head.

Anyway here is what Egypt now faces for an indeterminate period of time:

Emergency law in Egypt
  • Curfew in Cairo and other provinces from 19:00 local time (17:00 GMT) to 06:00 local time daily
  • Arrest of suspects deemed dangerous to public order
  • Army to help police maintain security
  • Limited movement of people and traffic
  • Surveillance on messages and monitoring of media

Mabrouk!!!
In short, military rule. I expect one of the generals to assume the position of state-president and to "save the nation"
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  #1297  
Old 15.08.2013, 14:29
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Over 420 people killed yesterday...is Egypt on the verge of civil war?
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Old 15.08.2013, 14:34
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Over 420 people killed yesterday...is Egypt on the verge of civil war?
What we're seeing is more like State Terror.
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  #1299  
Old 15.08.2013, 16:11
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Raising this to the U.N. Security Council is a reasonable approach but surprised that Erdogan is the one who raised this.
Erdogan is the person who only 2 months ago rejected the EU criticism of his violent repression against protestors & threatened to bring the military into the cities.

Quote "Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan called on Thursday for the U.N. Security Council to convene quickly after what he described as a massacre in Egypt and rounded on Western nations for failing to stop the bloodshed.
"I am calling on Western countries. You remained silent in Gaza, you remained silent in Syria ... You are still silent on Egypt. So how come you talk about democracy, freedom, global values and human rights," he said.

Erdogan made no mention of Arab countries, who have remained largely silent over Wednesday's crackdown."

Last edited by marton; 15.08.2013 at 17:24.
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Old 15.08.2013, 16:38
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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It would be nice if the anti-Morsi brigade now admitted that they were duped by the military and that nothing good ever comes from the barrel of a gun.
Yeah! Where is Mowvich and all the "its not a coup, its a popular uprising" talk?

Unfortunately, and I hope ppl who previously supported the coup have revised their opinion, I have found on social media that a helluva lot of middle class Egyptians have been insanely supportive of the army to the degree that they are putting up messages in support of the killings. Really shocking, shocking inhumane stuff, like the Doctor who said that if an MB supporter was brought to her hospital, she'd kill him rather than treat him.

Anyway, not that this is a surprise at all, here is footage of an egyptian officer putting on civilian clothes before taking up his gun again...

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