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Old 16.08.2013, 02:35
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

The baltagheya (hired thugs) and secret police are already out in force carrying out false flag attacks on obvious targets. These are not conspiracy theories but tired old narratives by an illegitimate government who have nothing to lose but everything to gain. Under the cover of curfew, who knows what unspeakable horrors they are currently up to?

For me, the most obvious question is why aren't the military protecting the churches?
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  #1322  
Old 16.08.2013, 02:54
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The baltagheya (hired thugs) and secret police are already out in force carrying out false flag attacks on obvious targets. These are not conspiracy theories but tired old narratives by an illegitimate government who have nothing to lose but everything to gain. Under the cover of curfew, who knows what unspeakable horrors they are currently up to?

For me, the most obvious question is why aren't the military protecting the churches?
False flag ran through my mind, other Muslims actually helped put it out. The problem with religious zealots (of any religion) is given a bit of power, they can resort to all kinds of despicable acts. All you have to do is wind 'em up and watch 'em go.

Anyway, I said that El Baradei would get into power, before Morsi came to power, you all said "no". I said that they would burn the churches, you said that there was no evidence. Here is the evidence. Egypt should learn from the events is j following Iraq after the invasion, there are similarities.

The only country that didn't play the US game all the way is Iran, is that what you envisage for Egypt? Is there any choice between a Muslim state or a US puppet regime? To me El Baradei is the best solution.
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  #1323  
Old 16.08.2013, 13:27
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The baltagheya (hired thugs) and secret police are already out in force carrying out false flag attacks on obvious targets. These are not conspiracy theories but tired old narratives by an illegitimate government who have nothing to lose but everything to gain. Under the cover of curfew, who knows what unspeakable horrors they are currently up to?

For me, the most obvious question is why aren't the military protecting the churches?
Currently, MB members attack copts. if you have proof to the contrary please produce it. Islamists have been attacking christians across the middle east for years (having expelled 99.9% of the Jews they are running out of scapegoats).

The copts are already on the army's side - what's the point of a false flag ?

Morsi was already appointing his own governors before he was ousted, the Army could have waited for purges (As Erogan is doing in Turkey) or act now to preserve it's privileged position. The MB growing control of the state would have ensured that they couldn't be voted out (Mubarak managed to win elections for 30 years, why not the MB).
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Old 16.08.2013, 18:45
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

A very good article in Der Spiegel (in English) analysing how the Egyptian populace seems to have been comprehensively brainwashed into ignoring genocide in their midst... when you think about it, its Goebellian in scale.

Propaganda Trap: Egyptian Elite Succumb to the Hate Virus
By Ulrike Putz in Cairo

Just weeks ago, they decried police violence and the heavy-handed state apparatus. Now, after over 600 members of the Muslim Brotherhood were killed on Wednesday, the Egyptian elite is silent. Those who dare to voice empathy are given a hostile reception.

Egyptian Amir Salim has the classic profile of a revolutionary. As a politically engaged young lawyer, he specialized in human rights cases, a focus which earned him nine trips to jail under Hosni Mubarak. When the revolt against the aging despot gained traction in 2011, Salim quickly became one of its spokesmen. After Mubarak's fall, he founded an organization which promulgated the creation of a civilian state free from military meddling. In a book published in 2012, he dissected the structures of Mubarak's police state.

Now, the same police that Salim attacked so vehemently in his book, has responded to demonstrations in Cairo with shocking brutality. At least 623 people, the vast majority of them civilians, were killed in street battles earlier this week.
And what is Salim doing? Sitting in a popular caf in the Cairo city center, he says things like this: "The Muslim Brothers are a sickness and the police have to eradicate them." And: "The police and the army were only defending themselves." He adds that "the problem will only have been solved when the last Muslim Brother who causes problems is locked away in prison." When asked about the obvious human rights violations perpetrated on the dead and wounded, he said: "And what about the rights of those who live near the protest camps? What about their right to be able to enjoy their apartment?"

Welcome to Egypt under General Abd al-Fattah al-Sissi. The country is so polarized that people are no longer able to feel any empathy whatsoever for others. It is a country in which the smartest and most critically thinking intellectuals are now spewing little more than propaganda, with people on both sides of the deep political divide displaying a penchant for simplification, vilification and agitation. Those who ask critical questions run the risk of being physically attacked, an experience that many foreign journalists have encountered in recent days.

Another Step toward Civil War

Wednesday's bloodbath would seem to have done little to bring people to their senses. Tahrir Square, where pro-democracy activists gathered as recently as just a few weeks ago to protest violence perpetrated by the country's security forces, is completely empty. And the Muslim Brotherhood, instead of seeking to limit violence within its ranks, is amplifying its rage. Each day, the country seems to be taking another step toward civil war.

It is, of course, hardly surprising that people on both sides would fall into the propaganda trap. Egypt was deeply marked by the 30 years of autocracy under Mubarak. A healthy mistrust for simplistic sloganeering, as seen in more established democracies, remains rare. It is, however, shocking that even those who see themselves as the country's educated elite are marching in step.

One of them is Khaled Daud, spokesman for the National Salvation Front, a collection of 11 liberal political parties. He says that the attack on the Muslim Brotherhood sit-in camps on Wednesday could definitely not be called a massacre. The protesters could have left of their own free will. By refusing to do so, they hold responsibility for the deaths. "We don't condemn what happened."

Then, however, his conscience did kick in and he added that his comments were merely the party line and that he personally sees things differently. "Nothing can justify the deaths," he said. "You can't simply explain away the high number of casualties. Police used brutal, excessive force. It is a catastrophe."

Bombarded by Messages of Hate

Daud says though that such views are not widespread. "The majority of Egyptians think the Brotherhood should be dealt with even more severely," he says, adding that few have understanding for Mohammed ElBaradei, the opposition leader and Nobel Peace Prize laureate who resigned from the transition government as a result of the bloodbath on Wednesday. Since then, Egyptian liberals have been blasting him as a traitor.

One of the few who has publicly voiced respect for ElBaradei's decision is Ashrif Arubi. An engineer by profession, Arubi is a co-founder of the April 6 Youth Movement, which played a significant role in the toppling of the Mubarak regime. "ElBaradei has principles and I think that is good," he says. But ever since Arubi posted his view on social media, he has been bombarded by messages of hate.
Arubi and others in his camp would like to organize a demonstration against the kind of violence that took place in Cairo on Wednesday. "We are opposed to the ways the police cleared the camps," he says. But he adds that the timing for such a protest isn't right -- it would be too dangerous. "People are happy that the Brothers were killed. They see it as revenge," 33-year-old Arubi says. He blames the state-controlled media for brainwashing people.

"My greatest fear seems to have come true," the activist says. "The Egyptians no longer see the authorities as their opponents. The enemy is now those Egyptians with other views."

Source
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  #1325  
Old 16.08.2013, 18:51
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

There is no genocide in Egypt. Beginning of a civil war maybe, but no genocide.
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  #1326  
Old 16.08.2013, 20:31
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

I'm not so sure that there is no genocide, there are very few Christians left in any of the Middle East. http://www.haaretz.com/news/features...lcome-1.420718
But to come back to those killed by the military. What are they going to put on the death certificates? To be accurate most must read " Unarmed civilian murdered/shot in head/chest/ multiple times by the army"?
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  #1327  
Old 16.08.2013, 21:18
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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What are they going to put on the death certificates? To be accurate most must read " Unarmed civilian murdered/shot in head/chest/ multiple times by the army"?
How about natural causes? These people are professionals, they know what they are doing.

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Ahmed Badir, who came from his Tampa, Fla., home to visit his family in Cairo, ended up having to identify his brother's body at the Imam mosque. But when he and his family members tried to take the slain man's body - which has a clear gunshot wound to the neck - they were told to sign papers that would have rewritten history.

"They said if you want to take the body now, you have to sign the documents, you have to agree that this was a natural death. That he died of natural causes, that's what it would say on the death certificate," an emotional Badir told D'Agata.

CBS News
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  #1328  
Old 16.08.2013, 21:34
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

My Hubby just rang the Travel Agent we have been advised to cancel the Holiday it is to dangerous to go we had Booked our Holiday in Hurghada
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:03
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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My Hubby just rang the Travel Agent we have been advised to cancel the Holiday it is to dangerous to go we had Booked our Holiday in Hurghada
That is in the apparently safe area at the moment. I suppose it is best to be cautious though. Things can change.
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:17
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

I doubt your holiday travel insurance would pay out if you travelled against government advice and something happened to you.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt

Better to lose some money by cancelling the holiday than risk your lives going into a war zone. Because that's what it is, even if no one is calling it that. Don't risk it.
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:17
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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My Hubby just rang the Travel Agent we have been advised to cancel the Holiday it is to dangerous to go we had Booked our Holiday in Hurghada
I don't want to call my sister to be the bearer of bad news, she lives to vacation. She will be in Sharm el Sheikh, with children and grandchildren and they are not Muslim, so while they are there I guess ignorance is bliss.
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

If she's ignorant of all that's going on there, then she's just plain stupid. Sorry, that sounds harsh, but really. I'm on vacation and nothing's going to interfere with that. Some people have no idea of what their priorities should be. It would be bad enough if she were on her own, but if she's got the kids and grandkids with her, she needs to take responsibility and try and get them out of there before things escalate.
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:26
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

The last time we had to cancel a holiday to Egypt, while living in Switzerland and Muburak in power, because the people I was travelling with would not be allowed in on Iranian passports. We lost all that we had paid no reimbursement. I guess the tables have turned.
If the US does not fund the Egyptian Military, then the Egyptian military will be welcoming Iranians in, and the Iranian willing to fill the funding vacuum left by the US. Even so I say cut US funding, we can't be party to a massacre and coup. Let El Baradei run the whole show or we are out.
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:30
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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If she's ignorant of all that's going on there, then she's just plain stupid. Sorry, that sounds harsh, but really. I'm on vacation and nothing's going to interfere with that. Some people have no idea of what their priorities should be. It would be bad enough if she were on her own, but if she's got the kids and grandkids with her, she needs to take responsibility and try and get them out of there before things escalate.
She's going, not there yet. If she can then nothing will stop her, although I will try.
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:33
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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That is in the apparently safe area at the moment. I suppose it is best to be cautious though. Things can change.
The Travel Agent told us Not to Travel there i am Not risking my Family.
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:37
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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she's going, not there yet. If she can then nothing will stop her, although i will try.
stop her it is not wrth the risk life is wrth more than bloody money and yes i am shouting at you to stop her from ging
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Old 16.08.2013, 22:41
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

A unbiased analysis by Egyptian actor Khalid Abdalla... a bit of heckling towards the end of the interview from bystanders accusing the BBC of lies and Mishal Hussein of being an Egyptian

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Old 17.08.2013, 03:42
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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stop her it is not wrth the risk life is wrth more than bloody money and yes i am shouting at you to stop her from ging
I phoned again, she is not going until October, but is going to Hurghada not Sharm el Shiekh. She told me "I'm not paranoid like you Americans. Today was an angry day in Egypt, but things will calm down, if the plane flies I'm getting on it-you've become way too paranoid"
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Old 17.08.2013, 10:05
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I phoned again, she is not going until October, but is going to Hurghada not Sharm el Shiekh. She told me "I'm not paranoid like you Americans. Today was an angry day in Egypt, but things will calm down, if the plane flies I'm getting on it-you've become way too paranoid"
Sensible woman, you need to have a rational approach to risk assessment. You are far more likely to come to harm in London, New York, LA, Paris etc.. Than Hurghada. The only reason I would stay away from such a place is because of what the government is doing to its own people. Economic sanction seems to be the only thing The current mob understands.
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Old 17.08.2013, 21:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The last time we had to cancel a holiday to Egypt, while living in Switzerland and Muburak in power, because the people I was travelling with would not be allowed in on Iranian passports. We lost all that we had paid no reimbursement. I guess the tables have turned.
If the US does not fund the Egyptian Military, then the Egyptian military will be welcoming Iranians in, and the Iranian willing to fill the funding vacuum left by the US. Even so I say cut US funding, we can't be party to a massacre and coup. Let El Baradei run the whole show or we are out.
The US is already party to a massacre and coup when it allowed Mubarak to be removed after supporting him for decades. What did they think would happen? Stable democracy? Just like in Iraq?

You either support a dictator or you don't. If you do, you don't just wash your hands one day and go "nu-uh, not my problem anymore. " This is what happens.
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