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  #1401  
Old 26.08.2013, 20:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Like I said before, each religion has its fanatical elements and they are easy to incite or use false flag. I do believe in the concept of sanctuary in a Church, Synagogue , Mosque, temple, whatever.. so the fact that the military entered and massacred people in the mosque is barbaric.

No country in the ME is innocent of getting rid of Christians, not even the Holy Land.

While burning churches and synagogues, and massacring its people is perceived as history.
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Old 26.08.2013, 20:36
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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While burning churches and synagogues, and massacring its people is perceived as history.
Why do you neglect or refuse to include mosques in the same category?

The razing if mosques is also perceived as 'History'. Are all human beings not equal and entitled to equal treatment? "If you prick us do we not bleed?" If you go back though the thread you will see that it was me who first raised the issue of burning churches, that doesn't mean that I ignore the latest issue of massacres in mosques. My concern is for all mankind, not one religion above another.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/49...airo-egypt.htm

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  #1403  
Old 26.08.2013, 20:49
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Why do you neglect or refuse to include mosques in the same category?

The razing if mosques is also perceived as 'History'. Are all human beings not equal and entitled to equal treatment? "If you prick us do we not bleed?" If you go back though the thread you will see that it was me who first raised the issue of burning churches, that doesn't mean that I ignore the latest issue of massacres in mosques. My concern is for all mankind, not one religion above another.

I don't think I refused nor neglected it, as I already quote your note on the barbarism of it, yet you failed to mention the barbarism of burning churches and killing and abusing Copts.

The topic has been widely downplayed and not evenhandedly addressed. Even a White House spokesman asked about it responds with a joke that he didn't bring a red pen to "red-line" it.


I don't think Muslims should allow terrorists to use Mosques as shields in the same ways they've used human shields in other places. There ought to be a law, or at least some sense of common decency about that.

Last edited by Phos; 26.08.2013 at 21:01.
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Old 26.08.2013, 21:01
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I don't think I refused nor neglected it, as I already quote your note on the barbarism of it, yet you failed to mention the barbarism of burning churches and killing and abusing Copts.

The topic has been widely downplayed and not evenhandedly addressed. Even a White House spokesman asked about it responds with a joke that he didn't bring a red pen to "red-line" it.
Absolutely not- I agree with you- look through the thread you will see that I was the one who first posted about the burning of the churches.

All one has to do to look at the extermination of Christians throughout the Middle- east to look at the dwindling numbers, it is can't all be jut down to the growth in Muslim converts.
But it has been going on for decades and not just by the Muslims, the Israelis are also guilty and if anything is downplayed it is the role of the Jews against Copts. And NO, my intent is not to bash Israelis, I think the Jews have had enough bashing through the ages, it is just to say that all fanatics in all religions are guilty or horrendous acts, today it is one religion tomorrow another.
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Old 26.08.2013, 21:12
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Absolutely not- I agree with you- look through the thread you will see that I was the one who first posted about the burning of the churches.

All one has to do to look at the extermination of Christians throughout the Middle- east to look at the dwindling numbers, it is can't all be jut down to the growth in Muslim converts.
But it has been going on for decades and not just by the Muslims, the Israelis are also guilty and if anything is downplayed it is the role of the Jews against Copts. And NO, my intent is not to bash Israelis, I think the Jews have had enough bashing through the ages, it is just to say that all fanatics in all religions are guilty or horrendous acts, today it is one religion tomorrow another.
Sorry, pointing at Jews does not lessen the deed, nor has the passage of time. The fact of the matter is that it is tacitly approved. We do know that Muslim converts to Christianity are subject to capital punishment, as well those who proselytize Christianity in Islamic countries. There is an systematic and institutional process of eradication that has been taking place for centuries. The problem is that ignoring it does not lessen the consequences and karma of it, and the worse consequences of it is not on the innocent. If you think this is a valid attribute of a modern and "civilized" Islamic country, I would say it may help explain the disarray and injustice you see in such countries.
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Old 26.08.2013, 21:48
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Sorry, pointing at Jews does not lessen the deed, nor has the passage of time. The fact of the matter is that it is tacitly approved. We do know that Muslim converts to Christianity are subject to capital punishment, as well those who proselytize Christianity in Islamic countries. There is an systematic and institutional process of eradication that has been taking place for centuries. The problem is that ignoring it does not lessen the consequences and karma of it, and the worse consequences of it is not on the innocent. If you think this is a valid attribute of a modern and "civilized" Islamic country, I would say it may help explain the disarray and injustice you see in such countries.
The thing that many on this thread find difficult about me and my opinions is that I will point and defend indiscriminate of religion or ethnicity. I am not in any one camp, pretty much a loner. I will argue for a Jew or Christian as much as I would argue for a Muslim. If I were in any camp I would probably favor liberal Jews. But when one starts to point at all Muslims to lessen the deeds of Christians or Jews then I will defend the Muslims. The pressure to become a Muslim-of course I know all about that, as in any religion I am not totally free to discuss it without recrimination. This is the sad fact when religion becomes mixed with authority, just as I suffered recrimination for not putting my hand on my heart in the pledge of allegiance while teaching in the US.
But Phos, lets not dominate this thread focusing solely on apportioning guilt to Jews, Christians or Muslims, it is just such a negative activity and can incite hatred, and we all knows where inciting hatred leads. If you want to discuss it and have an audience then open another thread- I promise I will meet you there to discuss, but my aim will always be to unite, not divide. Basically, if you argue in favor of the Jews I will argue against. If you argue in favor of Christians, I will argue against. If you argue in favor of Muslims, I will argue against. If you argue in favor of a common humanity I will agree.
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Old 26.08.2013, 22:08
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The thing that many on this thread find difficult about me and my opinions is that I will point and defend indiscriminate of religion or ethnicity. I am not in any one camp, pretty much a loner. I will argue for a Jew or Christian as much as I would argue for a Muslim. If I were in any camp I would probably favor liberal Jews. But when one starts to point at all Muslims to lessen the deeds of Christians or Jews then I will defend the Muslims. The pressure to become a Muslim-of course I know all about that, as in any religion I am not totally free to discuss it without recrimination. This is the sad fact when religion becomes mixed with authority, just as I suffered recrimination for not putting my hand on my heart in the pledge of allegiance while teaching in the US.
But Phos, lets not dominate this thread focusing solely on apportioning guilt to Jews, Christians or Muslims, it is just such a negative activity and can incite hatred, and we all knows where inciting hatred leads. If you want to discuss it and have an audience then open another thread- I promise I will meet you there to discuss, but my aim will always be to unite, not divide. Basically, if you argue in favor of the Jews I will argue against. If you argue in favor of Christians, I will argue against. If you argue in favor of Muslims, I will argue against. If you argue in favor of a common humanity I will agree.

As I stated in a previous post, attributing blame to some other will not help in finding a perspective forwards. For years, many attributed the problems of this region to something else other than its own people. You even implied it yourself by incriminating the US with its previous interplay with Iraq. The US and Israel, yes, Israel with its trade, has benefitted Egypt tremendously. But the likes of you would rather hash out delusion conspiracies instead of helping Egypt back up on its feet. Now the US is responsible for Saddam's use of chemical weapons? Seriously, that line of reasoning is old. How about everybody taking responsibility for themselves?

I'm not arguing for any particular religious group. I'm actually arguing for Egypt and its people. Egyptians I have met have been fairly cool, its history is the history of mankind, and there are some pretty cool tourist spots I would like to visit were it not for the large number of idiots who run around in that country.
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Old 26.08.2013, 22:31
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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As I stated in a previous post, attributing blame to some other will not help in finding a perspective forwards. For years, many attributed the problems of this region to something else other than its own people. You even implied it yourself by incriminating the US with its previous interplay with Iraq. The US and Israel, yes, Israel with its trade, has benefitted Egypt tremendously. But the likes of you would rather hash out delusion conspiracies instead of helping Egypt back up on its feet. Now the US is responsible for Saddam's use of chemical weapons? Seriously, that line of reasoning is old. How about everybody taking responsibility for themselves?

I'm not arguing for any particular religious group. I'm actually arguing for Egypt and its people. Egyptians I have met have been fairly cool, its history is the history of mankind, and there are some pretty cool tourist spots I would like to visit were it not for the large number of idiots who run around in that country.
What can the people of a country (such as Egypt or Iran) do when they are subject to a coup the threat of nuclear, chemical or other weapons. which is supported by the most powerful nation in the world? Iran and Egypt were both seeking democracy, but both fell prey to external forces, beyond their control. How do Egypt or Iran find democracy without the threat of foreign interference.

Also, you cannot seriously claim that Iran was not the subject of an American backed coup, the US government has already admitted and apologized for it. Egypt now has a coup and still have US military backing (or has the military aid just been suspended?).

And the aiding of Iraq in the use of chemical weapons against Iran report is from the Foreign Policy Association,(FPA). It was an FPA exclusive. The FPA one of the world's most respected institutions, founded in 1918 under Woodrow Wilson, from it came the league of nations. There really is no disputing it, if the US are admitting it, the FPA is kind of the USA mouthpiece on World Affairs. When asked about the report the Whitehouse and CIA say "No Comment". Why they have decided to release this now I don't know, it certainly won't help things, but the release of the info was deliberate, so there must be a reason. Was this the secret that the Egyptian Military were threatening to release as someone stated earlier in a post? The National Iranian American Council and most other governments are trying to ignore it. There must be some reason why this was released during the gassing of Syrians, but I can't think why.
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Old 26.08.2013, 23:53
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Ah... so we can overlook the barbaric and savage behavior, have them pass go and collect $200. You wish you can blame the US for it. Sorry, but what they do to each other, they do to each other.
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Old 29.08.2013, 20:01
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Can anyone help me understand this statement by Rafsanjani-( what the significance of it is if any), and the role of the Saudis in Egypt and Syria. Even if they are just your informed interpretation and not fact.

"A large volume of what used to be done at Al Azhar in Egypt is now in the hands of the Saudis"

Can it have anything to do with false flag burning/ransacking of the Mosque or am I way off target?

Thanks.
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Old 05.09.2013, 23:39
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

The new Egypt:

Car bomb explodes near Egypt interior minister's convoy

A twist of the word "spring" in Arab Spring. Very sad.
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Old 06.09.2013, 02:50
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Can anyone help me understand this statement by Rafsanjani-( what the significance of it is if any), and the role of the Saudis in Egypt and Syria. Even if they are just your informed interpretation and not fact.

"A large volume of what used to be done at Al Azhar in Egypt is now in the hands of the Saudis"

Can it have anything to do with false flag burning/ransacking of the Mosque or am I way off target?

Thanks.
Rafsanjani referred to the close linkage between Mekka , the Grand Mosque, and Al-Azhar. The Sheikh-al-Azhar is the Primus-inter-Pares among the national Imams in the world. The KSA in Egypt supported the MB, but only half-heartedly, as an Islamist Egypt would have reduced the role of the "Guardians of Mekkah and Medina" .

In regard to Syria, the problem of the KSA is that the "rebels" are a variety of organisations ranging from Communists to Rightwing Clericalists. They however at the other hand could do well without Assad and his regime
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Old 06.09.2013, 03:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Rafsanjani referred to the close linkage between Mekka , the Grand Mosque, and Al-Azhar. The Sheikh-al-Azhar is the Primus-inter-Pares among the national Imams in the world. The KSA in Egypt supported the MB, but only half-heartedly, as an Islamist Egypt would have reduced the role of the "Guardians of Mekkah and Medina" .

In regard to Syria, the problem of the KSA is that the "rebels" are a variety of organisations ranging from Communists to Rightwing Clericalists. They however at the other hand could do well without Assad and his regime
Thanks Wolli,

is it at all possible that the Sheikh-al-Azhar is like the Sunni Pope? If so is it possible that the Saudis in an attempt to placate their own religious masses, would run false flag burning of the mosques in order to move the Sheikh-al-Azhar to Saudi Arabia. Assuming that if the Sheikh-al-Azhar owed the Saudi royal family a favor (for offering him safe harbor), then he would be expected to repay this favor by supporting the rule of the House of Saud, or am I way off target with this?
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Old 06.09.2013, 08:49
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Thanks Wolli,

is it at all possible that the Sheikh-al-Azhar is like the Sunni Pope? If so is it possible that the Saudis in an attempt to placate their own religious masses, would run false flag burning of the mosques in order to move the Sheikh-al-Azhar to Saudi Arabia. Assuming that if the Sheikh-al-Azhar owed the Saudi royal family a favor (for offering him safe harbor), then he would be expected to repay this favor by supporting the rule of the House of Saud, or am I way off target with this?
The Sheikh-al-Azhar indeed is slightly in the position of a Sunni-Muslim pope, but it is NOT his person, which sometimes changes (age/death) but the place. So that nothing can be moved.

The idea of the KSA leaders however is to put the Sheikh-al-Azhar and the Imam of the Grand Mosque in Mekka into top-positions in the Muslim-International-Movement and then use their clout (mostly money) to influence matters. The Saudis have a vital interest in Palestine-Israel-peace as the oil-terminal-seaport of Ashkelon would be ideal for the Saudis -- to get oil from nortnern areas of KSA by pipeline over to the Med. They also are interested to use the Egyptian oil refineries
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Old 06.09.2013, 23:57
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

The Christian pogrom in Egypt and the ME continues unabaited:

MORSI BACKERS TERRORIZE CHRISTIANS IN EGYPTIAN TOWN
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Old 07.09.2013, 08:32
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The Christian pogrom in Egypt and the ME continues unabaited:

MORSI BACKERS TERRORIZE CHRISTIANS IN EGYPTIAN TOWN
You apparently are NOT up-to-date. Mr Mursi is no longer state-presdent of the Arab Republic of Egypt. This function went over to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adly_Mansour
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Old 07.09.2013, 22:43
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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You apparently are NOT up-to-date. Mr Mursi is no longer state-presdent of the Arab Republic of Egypt. This function went over to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adly_Mansour
Perhaps you are mis-inforemd, or willfully ignorant. The pogrom is conducted by Islamists.
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Old 08.09.2013, 06:57
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Perhaps you are mis-inforemd, or willfully ignorant. The pogrom is conducted by Islamists.
Pogroms describe the tradition of centuries long killing of Jews by Christians.
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Old 08.09.2013, 09:02
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Perhaps you are mis-inforemd, or willfully ignorant. The pogrom is conducted by Islamists.
"Mursi-backers" and Islamists indeed are the same. But to speak about POGROMS is an absoulte exaggeration.

You of course can say that Mr Sawiri

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/ausland/...19305985?track

is a liar, but according to him, things are to come under control
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  #1420  
Old 09.09.2013, 02:55
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

No, these are factual events. It is clear Islamists are on a campaign to cleanse countries of Christians and religious minorities, wherever they might take power. It does not seem able to co-exist with others.

Egypt’s Anti-Christian Pogrom
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