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  #1441  
Old 11.09.2013, 23:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I would keep quiet about that, Poor Phos must behaving a nightmare tracking all these claims of apostasy. He's completely lost track of the jihads.
I abstained from mentioning other minorities like the Greek Orthodox, the Greek Catholics, the Armenian Orthodox etc
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  #1442  
Old 11.09.2013, 23:30
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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You were provided with a Video of the attack as well as news piece (others also exist) yet insist on refusing reality.
No no, it is well possible that some shots reached target. But what exactly was the damage ?

These ships are not fortresses, but fairly solid as long as nothing vital gets hit.

The Egyptians stated that the ship could continue its journey without problems.

So, again the simply question what damage was caused ? Details please
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  #1443  
Old 11.09.2013, 23:47
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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No no, it is well possible that some shots reached target. But what exactly was the damage ?

These ships are not fortresses, but fairly solid as long as nothing vital gets hit.

The Egyptians stated that the ship could continue its journey without problems.

So, again the simply question what damage was caused ? Details please

In our western culture, that is still called an attack. If you shoot at someone and miss, you still attacked them.

Not in your culture? hmmmm, man you folks sure let off perpetrators too easy. Perhaps so long as one shouts "Allahu Akbar" while committing a crime, then they are no longer guilty nor responsible for their actions, according to that culture. They can call it holy, perhaps?

Those could have been a shipment of my favorite munchies.
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  #1444  
Old 11.09.2013, 23:58
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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There are more churches in Iran (73?) than minarets in Switzerland.
There are also synagogues. but I don't think that there are any Baha'i Houses of worship. I have not heard on anyone in Iran being killed for apostasy, except Baha'is during mob killings.
I think that in Iran apostasy is the same as treason, which is many countries is still a capital offence. It is not secret that religion has been used as a tool to overthrow governments. When you hear of someone being locked up for apostasy, they are basically being locked up for treason. Most Iranians believe that Baha'is are a politically instigated cult-like movement. Most of the Baha'is that I met are really nice people. I know of many Iranians who have converted to being Christians, as long as you are not trying to overthrow the Muslims theocracy, Iranians really don't care.
But Muslim haters already know what apostasy is really about. The only faith that should be seriously worried about apostasy in Iran are the Baha'is, which is why I don't believe there are any openly practicing Baha'is left in Iran.
1. About "There are more churches in Iran (73?) than minarets in Switzerland."
Iran has ten times more people than Switzerland so you cannot make such a simple comparison.

2. About "Most Iranians believe that Baha'is are a politically instigated cult-like movement"
Is this a good reason to persecute & murder them?
This religion has been around for over 150 years & is believed to have 5 million members in at least 200 countries.
The world centre is now in Israel; it was there long before Israel was formed.
Who do the Iranians believe was the political instigator of this politically instigated movement?
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  #1445  
Old 12.09.2013, 00:49
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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No no, it is well possible that some shots reached target. But what exactly was the damage ?

These ships are not fortresses, but fairly solid as long as nothing vital gets hit.

The Egyptians stated that the ship could continue its journey without problems.

So, again the simply question what damage was caused ? Details please
Luckily, the ship suffered very little damage in the attack.

Egypt is now reaping the fruits of mis-ruling Sinai and doesn't show much willingness to change.
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  #1446  
Old 18.09.2013, 08:04
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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1. About "There are more churches in Iran (73?) than minarets in Switzerland."
Iran has ten times more people than Switzerland so you cannot make such a simple comparison.

2. About "Most Iranians believe that Baha'is are a politically instigated cult-like movement"
Is this a good reason to persecute & murder them?
This religion has been around for over 150 years & is believed to have 5 million members in at least 200 countries.
The world centre is now in Israel; it was there long before Israel was formed.
Who do the Iranians believe was the political instigator of this politically instigated movement?
1. Most people don't even know that churches operate in Iran.

2. I never said it was a good reason to murder them. If the accounts are true they were also tortured.

Religion can be a useful tool in whipping up the crowds, it can and probably was used by both the Russian, and British.
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  #1447  
Old 18.09.2013, 08:08
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

I don't have time to watch this yet- but Frontline usually has great documentaries, this should be available on line in the next few days. There is also a discussion so you can send in a question if you like. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...-wed-3-p-m-et/
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  #1448  
Old 18.09.2013, 10:24
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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1. Most people don't even know that churches operate in Iran.

2. I never said it was a good reason to murder them. If the accounts are true they were also tortured.

Religion can be a useful tool in whipping up the crowds, it can and probably was used by both the Russian, and British.
About "Religion can be a useful tool in whipping up the crowds, it can and probably was used by both the Russian, and British"

Russian? Russia changed to Communism around 100 years ago so little scope to use Religion.
Before that Russia was a serfdom & people were controlled that way.
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  #1449  
Old 18.09.2013, 11:54
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About "Religion can be a useful tool in whipping up the crowds, it can and probably was used by both the Russian, and British"

Russian? Russia changed to Communism around 100 years ago so little scope to use Religion.
Before that Russia was a serfdom & people were controlled that way.
Stalin eased up on churches during WW2 and allowed them to reopen, as it was good for morale, camaraderie, and bloodlust.
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  #1450  
Old 18.09.2013, 18:28
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About "Religion can be a useful tool in whipping up the crowds, it can and probably was used by both the Russian, and British"

Russian? Russia changed to Communism around 100 years ago so little scope to use Religion.
Before that Russia was a serfdom & people were controlled that way.
IF interested in this you read up on the Qajar dynasty and what followed. "He notes that while Iran's sovereignty was recognized in the 19th century, Britain and Russia meddled in the country's affairs to further their own interests, and that groups that have trans-national ties like the Jews and the Bahá'ís are therefore seen as suspicious by Iranian nationalists.[26]"
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  #1451  
Old 18.09.2013, 22:47
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Luckily, the ship suffered very little damage in the attack.

Egypt is now reaping the fruits of mis-ruling Sinai and doesn't show much willingness to change.
Egyptian ruling of the Sinaï was always oriented at exploiting the area, which means the coastal regions on the Red Sea, but never either to develop the area or to give its inhabitants a chance to participate in Egyptian affairs.

The el-Arish Directorate is a Palestinian area. But Egypt is not to transfer the el-Arish Directorate to Gaza

All this is NOT to change at all.

Pres.... sorry, General Sisi was Commander of the Army Corps in North Sinaï and so it is easy to see with whom he there co-operated.

I am not a believer in conspiracy theories, but think that it is fairly obvious that General Sisi has at least one neighbour behind him.
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  #1452  
Old 23.09.2013, 22:10
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Only in Egypt; from ruling party to banned in less than a year.
The Egyptian authorities have banned the Muslim Brotherhood, sealing the marginalisation of the Islamist movement that was the country's most powerful political group until as recently as the July overthrow of Mohamed Morsi.
A court on Monday ordered the freezing of the Brotherhood's assets and also banned its spin-off groups, state media reported.
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  #1453  
Old 24.09.2013, 02:00
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Only in Egypt; from ruling party to banned in less than a year.
The Egyptian authorities have banned the Muslim Brotherhood, sealing the marginalisation of the Islamist movement that was the country's most powerful political group until as recently as the July overthrow of Mohamed Morsi.
A court on Monday ordered the freezing of the Brotherhood's assets and also banned its spin-off groups, state media reported.
The tide turned fast
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  #1454  
Old 07.10.2013, 07:15
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

See-Egypt still a mess. Have Russia and the US done a deal- we won't meddle in Egypt if you steer clear of Syria?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/wo...dead.html?_r=0
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  #1455  
Old 07.10.2013, 10:29
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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See-Egypt still a mess. Have Russia and the US done a deal- we won't meddle in Egypt if you steer clear of Syria?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/wo...dead.html?_r=0

I do not blame the USA or Russia. It is intra-Egyptian politics. Things still are in turmoil, but I expect things to settle within a month. In spite of all what happened now, I think that Egypt is on the right way right now
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  #1456  
Old 07.10.2013, 18:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I do not blame the USA or Russia. It is intra-Egyptian politics. Things still are in turmoil, but I expect things to settle within a month. In spite of all what happened now, I think that Egypt is on the right way right now
You say one month? The clock is ticking, let's see. I say it won't settle down in the next 6 months, maybe not 1 year, they are on the wrong track. Netanyahu should be more worried about Egypt than Iran.
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  #1457  
Old 07.10.2013, 18:41
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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You say one month? The clock is ticking, let's see. I say it won't settle down in the next 6 months, maybe not 1 year, they are on the wrong track. Netanyahu should be more worried about Egypt than Iran.
About "Netanyahu should be more worried about Egypt than Iran" -He is a clever guy & worries about the real threats.
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  #1458  
Old 07.10.2013, 19:09
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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About "Netanyahu should be more worried about Egypt than Iran" -He is a clever guy & worries about the real threats.
Netanyahu is worried about votes. when Iran is no longer a scapegoat then he will have to face internal problems and pressure for a 2-state solution.

It's too late for him to worry about Iran having the bomb. I believe that they are already at the 'Japanese stage' and can't be bombed back to an earlier stage so it's now a mute point. The question is where does Israel go from here? Do they encourage peace with Rouhani, or does Netanyahu stir up the pot, keeping Iran as the scapegoat and encourage the Ahmadinjead side of the IRGC. The IRGC are threatened at present, if they can see a future where they can hold on to their interests in some way while Iran move forwards, they will back Rouhani.


At present they only have Ahmadinejad whose policies only provide profits for a few. If Rouhani does not get backing then sanctions will continue and Iran is on the brink of economic collapse. Maybe that's what Netanyahu wants, for Iran to collapse economically, but that will lead to a very unstable Middle East. An unstable Middle East is not something that the US wants......at least not around the Gulf countries, social development there must be a slower process.


"Economic hardship of households can contribute to political instability as the Arab Spring has shown. On the surface, Egypt was a poster child of economic success before Mubarak's downfall. The Ease of Doing Business Index of the World Bank named Egypt as the world's leading reformer in 2008. In 2010, the country had been among its top ten reformers for a record four consecutive years. Growth rates on a macro level were appealing, yet economic liberalization only benefitted a small class of cronies. The much promised trickle down effect was a rain that never came. Egypt developed, but Egyptians did not. The problem remains under the new Morsi government and can also be observed in post-revolutionary Tunisia: As long there is not a modicum of economic change, political stability will remain elusive"
http://www.cidob.org/es/publicaciones/opinion/asia/poor_gulf_growing_inequality_no_data

Last edited by Hoppy; 07.10.2013 at 19:32.
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  #1459  
Old 07.10.2013, 21:05
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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You say one month? The clock is ticking, let's see. I say it won't settle down in the next 6 months, maybe not 1 year, they are on the wrong track. Netanyahu should be more worried about Egypt than Iran.

The leadership is gradually liquidating the Muslim Brotherhood, which will be history
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  #1460  
Old 07.10.2013, 22:53
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The leadership is gradually liquidating the Muslim Brotherhood, which will be history
That is like suppressing the air in one area of a balloon, where the balloon is the Egyptian society. You have to spend all you energy keeping a tight grip to suppress one part, which distorts the structure and form of society as a whole. Eventually you will get sidetracked as other pockets that you need to be suppressed develop in reaction to the tight control. You can't suppress all of them so you lose grip and eventually they seep back in. All you have done is delay the problem from society bursting or shrinking on its own.

What you have to do is intelligently sort out which is the favoured gas and which the non-favoured. Then you just create conditions that foster the favoured gas and eliminate the non-favoured gas.

Hatred causes people to react irrationally and that hatred spills over, affecting the innocent.

History shows that you can't 'kill off' the Muslim brotherhood by 'liquidating' them. You have to ameliorate certain aspects and incorporate the more positive aspects of the Muslim brotherhood.
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