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  #1481  
Old 11.10.2013, 10:54
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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And who is protecting unarmed protesters from 'State Terror'?
We had debates on this, if you have unarmed protestors protecting armed ones with heavy guns and supporting the terrorization of the nation, they don't need any protection....they need law to be enforced on them and be dealt with in the same way they do
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  #1482  
Old 11.10.2013, 11:59
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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We had debates on this, if you have unarmed protestors protecting armed ones with heavy guns and supporting the terrorization of the nation, they don't need any protection....they need law to be enforced on them and be dealt with in the same way they do
I honestly cannot understand how someone who was so active in the first revolution can be so happy to accept this clear betrayal of the revolution. The sight of Mubarek being released, and then warmly endorsing Gen Sisi as Egypt's next President should have been enough to ring alarm bells and convince you that you are back to Square 1.




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Farid al-Deeb, lawyer for former President Hosni Mubarak, said the ex-president described Defense Minister Abdel Fattah al-Sisi as “Egypt’s hope.”
What you need to stop saying is that democracy has any chance in Egypt and instead say that the best hope for the country is some form of benign dictatorship. If people are so in love with their military and want to lionise their generals, fine, but please don't try an convince us that military marksmen shooting unarmed Egyptians in the streets like dogs is 'fighting terrorism'. And also don't be mistaken for thinking that locking up or harassing journalists and banning Al Jazeerah or other news organisation is good for the country or its security.

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Egypt is going through a tough transition and journalists are paying a considerable toll. Since the July 3 removal of President Mohamed Morsi, at least five journalists have been killed, 30 assaulted, and 11 news outlets raided. CPJ has documented a total of 44 cases of detention, and at least five journalists remain behind bars. The attacks on the press come amid a broad campaign by the interim military-led government to limit coverage of the Muslim Brotherhood and force the media to toe the official line.
Ultimiately the political and religious views of others are just as legitimate as your own in a democracy, to quote Voltaire

'I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'

This is what it means to be a democrat, not victor's justice which is what we're currently seeing, and anyone who doesn't agree with us is a terrorist I understand that Morsi was a disaster, but these are the birth pains of an emerging democracy. He could have been removed by referendum or simply at the end of his term.
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  #1483  
Old 11.10.2013, 12:54
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

You are gettignn close to understanding what I've been saying all along - Egypt is not ready for democracy.


Morsi was not a democrart and would'nt allow himself/MB to be removed democratically. very likely he would have copied Erdogan/Khomeini's steps and removed the top of the army (Erdogan is still a supporter of MB rule in Egypt)
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  #1484  
Old 12.10.2013, 02:52
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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I honestly cannot understand how someone who was so active in the first revolution can be so happy to accept this clear betrayal of the revolution. The sight of Mubarek being released, and then warmly endorsing Gen Sisi as Egypt's next President should have been enough to ring alarm bells and convince you that you are back to Square 1.






What you need to stop saying is that democracy has any chance in Egypt and instead say that the best hope for the country is some form of benign dictatorship. If people are so in love with their military and want to lionise their generals, fine, but please don't try an convince us that military marksmen shooting unarmed Egyptians in the streets like dogs is 'fighting terrorism'. And also don't be mistaken for thinking that locking up or harassing journalists and banning Al Jazeerah or other news organisation is good for the country or its security.



Ultimiately the political and religious views of others are just as legitimate as your own in a democracy, to quote Voltaire

'I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'

This is what it means to be a democrat, not victor's justice which is what we're currently seeing, and anyone who doesn't agree with us is a terrorist I understand that Morsi was a disaster, but these are the birth pains of an emerging democracy. He could have been removed by referendum or simply at the end of his term.
Ever studied the French Revolution ? Also there, revisions were welcomed. Sure, nobody expects General Sisi to become an Egyptian Napoleone Buonaparte. However, in a longer term, people in Egypt realize that President General Hosni Mubarak brought the economy forward as no one before him. No, Mursi was not to be the start of democracy but the start of a NON benign totalitarian dictatorship. There was no chance of a referendum against him and there would have been none at the end of his term. As there would have been no end of that term.

To say it again, the problem of Egypt is that it is a very centralized country very much open to authoritarianism. And a tradition of 6000 years (to quote Napoleon) of autocratic rulership
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  #1485  
Old 12.10.2013, 02:55
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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You are gettignn close to understanding what I've been saying all along - Egypt is not ready for democracy.


Morsi was not a democrart and would'nt allow himself/MB to be removed democratically. very likely he would have copied Erdogan/Khomeini's steps and removed the top of the army (Erdogan is still a supporter of MB rule in Egypt)
Exactly. You cannot establish a working democracy out of almost nothing, and against an authoritarian tradition of thousands of years
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  #1486  
Old 12.10.2013, 23:37
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Re: US Aid, it's not as enormous as it seems, first of all if was more than 80% arms and spare parts which mostly were used equipment by US army before, second a 1.3 billion isn't much comparing the overall GDP of Egypt, third it's actually better to cut aid cause then we can charge the US Military and Commercial ships for crossing the Suez canal which will generate much more higher revenue than the Aid.

I think the ones losing in the current situation is actually the US and anyone who's not supporting Egypt, cause with such a popular rise, Sisi being supported by the entire population except for < 1% and all Gulf states supporting Egypt....i can't see anyway the US would be able to communicate within the region no more, i don't think Obama is welcomed anywhere in the area and the US policy regarding MENA is totally screwed now
1. Egypt is already charging US ships using the Suez canal. the same charges apply to all shipping.

2. Why do you think the U.S is against Egypt ? it's still providing aid. Israel is also supporting Egypt in it's (civil) war against Islamists in Sinai.
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  #1487  
Old 12.10.2013, 23:52
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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That's not in their nor Israel's best interest.....the aid package is a main term of camp david's peace treaty, which may lead to the treaty being voided....Obama is just doing mistake after mistake without even thinking about the consequences of what he's doing.

In addition, why cutting aid on an a country that is defending itself against a terroristic group, what if the same whats happening in Egypt would happen in USA, will he tolerate people walking around and shooting guns all over the streets, shooting RPGs at satellite stations, threatening national security and endangering population's life?
Israel would love that
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  #1488  
Old 13.10.2013, 00:32
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Israel would love that
I think you need to buy a new hammer?
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  #1489  
Old 18.10.2013, 15:16
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Another refugee tragedy in Egypt.

"refugees say that when the Egyptian navy arrived in the early morning, sailors filmed the scene without intervening"
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  #1490  
Old 19.10.2013, 04:51
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Another refugee tragedy in Egypt.

"refugees say that when the Egyptian navy arrived in the early morning, sailors filmed the scene without intervening"

A strange story. People get arrested but then can go onto ships departing. The local fishermen rescued people but the navy did not have decent lamps. Soldiers according to some refugees had film-cameras/video-cameras with them. The ship with the refugees sank shortly after midnight (swiftly). The navy arrived at dawn. Since when is dawn in the wee-wee-hours ?
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  #1491  
Old 19.10.2013, 20:05
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

You are amazed that Egyptian have cameras. according to some witnesses the cameras did not have any film in them. some of the cameras were even able to make phone calls without any cables connected. must be hoax
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  #1492  
Old 20.10.2013, 17:43
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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You are amazed that Egyptian have cameras. according to some witnesses the cameras did not have any film in them. some of the cameras were even able to make phone calls without any cables connected. must be hoax
Not amazed about Egyptians having video cameras but astonsihed about
> soldiers having cameras ok for filiming at night
> soldiers being allowed to use their cameras
> refugees able to swim around for more than five hours at night

In short, the story is rubbish
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  #1493  
Old 18.11.2013, 17:21
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Today's quote "The head of Russia's state-controlled industrial holding company says Moscow has signed a deal to provide Egypt with air defense missile systems."


Good to know they still have money for important stuff! Never mind massive deficit high unemployment, foreign currency reserves falling through the floor.


Since the 2011 uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak, Egypt has burned through $20 billion dollars in foreign reserves, borrowed billions from its allies and racked up billions in debts to foreign oil companies to prop up its currency.


The Mursi government worked out an agreement with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) that would have included austerity measures, higher taxes and a reduction of subsidies that eat up a quarter of the budget. It was never implemented


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  #1494  
Old 18.11.2013, 18:47
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Today's quote "The head of Russia's state-controlled industrial holding company says Moscow has signed a deal to provide Egypt with air defense missile systems."


Good to know they still have money for important stuff! Never mind massive deficit high unemployment, foreign currency reserves falling through the floor.


Since the 2011 uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak, Egypt has burned through $20 billion dollars in foreign reserves, borrowed billions from its allies and racked up billions in debts to foreign oil companies to prop up its currency.


The Mursi government worked out an agreement with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) that would have included austerity measures, higher taxes and a reduction of subsidies that eat up a quarter of the budget. It was never implemented


The US won't be blackmailed, Egypt is welcome to its Russian deal. Russia and China are profiting from cheap Iranian oil, hopefully that will soon be resolved. Saudi Arabia and Russia make very unlikely bedfellows!
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  #1495  
Old 20.11.2013, 13:22
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

Interesting brand of hypocrisy here, two sportsmen punished for expressing their political views. However no such sanctions exist for sportspersons who brandish images or openly express their support for General Al-Sisi

Egypt sports minister defends pro-Morsi athletes' bans
Ahmed Abdul Zaher makes a four-finger gesture. Photo: 10 November 2013


Footballer Ahmed Abdul Zaher insisted his four-finger gesture was not political

Egypt's sports minister has defended the punishment of two sportsmen who have openly expressed their support of ousted President Mohammed Morsi.

Taher Abu Zaid told the BBC that it was right a footballer and a kung-fu champion had been banned.

Politics had no place in sport, Mr Abu Zaid insisted.

The two sportsmen were sanctioned after showing solidarity with protesters demanding the reinstatement of Mr Morsi, who the army deposed in July.

In October, kung-fu champion Mohammed Youssef had a gold medal confiscated and was banned from representing Egypt at competitions after being photographed at a tournament in Russia wearing a T-shirt with the four-fingered symbol used by Morsi supporters.

Then earlier this month, the leading Egyptian football club Al Ahly said it would exclude its striker Ahmed Abdul Zaher from the Fifa Club World Cup in Morocco after he gave a four-fingered salute when celebrating a goal in the final of the African Champions League.

The salute commemorates the deaths of hundreds of Morsi supporters in mid-August in clashes that erupted when troops cleared two sit-ins in the capital Cairo, one of them outside the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque.

In an interview with the BBC World Service's Newsday programme, Mr Abu Zaid said he was drawing up a new law that would ban any political gestures at sporting events, particularly when they related to a "terrorist" group, as the authorities refer to Mr Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood.

"We are implementing a road-map and giving all sports associations the freedom to act in accordance with the law.

"Any call for support of a terrorist or banned group is prohibited in the world of sport. So when some sportsmen display this gesture they are promoting a terrorist organisation which killed many Egyptians.

"This has nothing to do with freedom of expression and democracy."

Ahmed Abdul Zaher denied his use of the four-fingered salute had been political, saying at the time: "All I meant to do was to remember the dead."

Source
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  #1496  
Old 20.11.2013, 18:52
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Interesting brand of hypocrisy here, two sportsmen punished for expressing their political views. However no such sanctions exist for sportspersons who brandish images or openly express their support for General Al-Sisi
Egypt is still a military dictatorship, same as it ever was.
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  #1497  
Old 23.11.2013, 20:50
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

The Egyptians kicked out the Turkish ambassador, because Turkey supports the MB. The Egyptians generals don't want to end up like their Turkish counterparts - behind bars.
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  #1498  
Old 23.11.2013, 23:26
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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The Egyptians kicked out the Turkish ambassador, because Turkey supports the MB. The Egyptians generals don't want to end up like their Turkish counterparts - behind bars.

Erdogan's ambitions to be a major player in the region seem to be failing.
  • Declining relationships with Egypt
  • Being ignored in the development of strategies to resolve the Syrian conflict (outside of (hopefully groundless) rumours that Erdogan is supporting Al Queda in the area)
  • Rumours of increasing commercial deals with Israel that weaken the perception that Erdogan is trying to create; the perception that Turkey is playing a leading role in anti-Israel policies.
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  #1499  
Old 24.11.2013, 18:19
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

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Today's quote "The head of Russia's state-controlled industrial holding company says Moscow has signed a deal to provide Egypt with air defense missile systems."
Good to know they still have money for important stuff! Never mind massive deficit high unemployment, foreign currency reserves falling through the floor.


Since the 2011 uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak, Egypt has burned through $20 billion dollars in foreign reserves, borrowed billions from its allies and racked up billions in debts to foreign oil companies to prop up its currency.


The Mursi government worked out an agreement with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) that would have included austerity measures, higher taxes and a reduction of subsidies that eat up a quarter of the budget. It was never implemented


The USSR, sorry I mean Russia, will not get any money for the foreseeable future. Interesting however is that the Egypt under Marshal al-Sisi now turns back to Moscow. There already in the times of General Mubarak came a gradual warming of the link to Moscow, so that the present development does not come out of nothing

The deal the Mursi government worked out is rubbish. There has to be an INCREASE of subsidies and a reduction of taxes. The unable crooks of the Mursi government KNEW this quite clearly. As Dr Mohammed Abdel-Aziz two weeks ago told me, the worst of Mursi and his folks was NOT that they were religious zealots but that they proved to be unable and to be crooks
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Old 25.12.2013, 23:02
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Re: Egypt "Jan 25 - Day of revolution" [Update: Mubarak resigns]

So now muslim brotherhood is now defined as a terrorist organisation. The leaders of the anti Mubarek revolution are also being locked up. I forsee a long period of military rule
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