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  #221  
Old 12.09.2008, 15:02
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Another hijacked plane hit the woods in Pensylvania and has completely evaporated as well. Even the black boxes have been turned to dust by the hard impact on forest soil.
You are talking about United 93. It is an extremely well known fact that not just one but both black boxes were recovered intact inside the impact crater, sent for analysis, and used in testimony, including being played to relatives that wanted to hear it.

Congratulations on your expert knowledge. It won't be easy to take all of your other "facts" seriously about this matter.

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  #222  
Old 13.09.2008, 01:55
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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You are talking about United 93. It is an extremely well known fact that not just one but both black boxes were recovered intact inside the impact crater, sent for analysis, and used in testimony, including being played to relatives that wanted to hear it.

Congratulations on your expert knowledge. It won't be easy to take all of your other "facts" seriously about this matter.
Thanks for the info. Do you have a link to the article? What did they say was found else?

There's other issues too with United 93:

The magazine Aviation Week on July 20th 2004 reported:
Quote:
Travelers could be talking on their personal cellphones as early as 2006. Earlier this month, American Airlines conducted a trial run on a modified aircraft that permitted cell phone calls.

(...)

Qualcomm and American Airlines are exploring ways for passengers to use commercial cell phones inflight for air-to-ground communication. In a recent 2-hr. proof-of-concept flight, representatives from government and the media used commercial Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) third-generation cell phones to place and receive calls and text messages from friends on the ground.
On September 11th 2001 the technology to allow cell phone calls from flights had not been developed yet.

Yet, multiple cell phone calls were made from flight United 93 with a duration of several minutes at an altitude of 8000feet on September 11th 2001 (At least that's what the official story says).

In one of the calls a man introduced himself with his forename and last name to his mother and then requested his own mother to confirm that she was indeed sure of talking to her son.

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  #223  
Old 13.09.2008, 13:40
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Thanks for the info. Do you have a link to the article? What did they say was found else?

There's other issues too with United 93:

The magazine Aviation Week on July 20th 2004 reported:
On September 11th 2001 the technology to allow cell phone calls from flights had not been developed yet.

Yet, multiple cell phone calls were made from flight United 93 with a duration of several minutes at an altitude of 8000feet on September 11th 2001 (At least that's what the official story says).

In one of the calls a man introduced himself with his forename and last name to his mother and then requested his own mother to confirm that she was indeed sure of talking to her son.
Mobile phone calls are not allowed on planes because of fears they may interfere with flight systems, not because it's not possible. The "new" technology you refer to is actually to make the quality of calls better, while it would be possible to make phone calls over an area deluged with cell towers, it would not be possible in the middle of the Atlantic. It's effectively a cell tower in the plane with a satellite link. But don't let that get in the way of your story. It must be fun looking through newspaper articles and only ever picking up a fraction of the story. Tabloids are best for this, use them.
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  #224  
Old 13.09.2008, 14:03
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Mobile phone calls are not allowed on planes because of fears they may interfere with flight systems, not because it's not possible. The "new" technology you refer to is actually to make the quality of calls better, while it would be possible to make phone calls over an area deluged with cell towers, it would not be possible in the middle of the Atlantic. It's effectively a cell tower in the plane with a satellite link. But don't let that get in the way of your story. It must be fun looking through newspaper articles and only ever picking up a fraction of the story. Tabloids are best for this, use them.
Not at 8000 feet altitude dude

Funny you mention the tabloids since you are representing their opinion. Go figure.
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  #225  
Old 13.09.2008, 17:11
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Not at 8000 feet altitude dude
That depends on who you ask.

While it was in Australia, not the US, I had my phone I forgot to turn off ring or receive an SMS a few times at altitude on planes, and also witnessed it happen with other people's phones (this was ca. 1999-2001). In remote areas, my phone (a Nokia 3210, hardly high-end) would regularly lock onto cell towers 25-30km away, if it had line-of-site.

Of course, the whole "problem" here also hinges on those calls having been made from mobile phones, rather than seatback phones. The evidence says that most calls came from seatback phones and the mobile phone calls didn't start until 09:58, when the plane was at around 5000 feet.


The short version: a few mobile phone calls from a plane at around 5000 feet is not at all unreasonable.
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  #226  
Old 13.09.2008, 18:08
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Once made a seat back phone call, sheerly for the pleasure of it. $50.00 later, Air Canada 1996 . Hey Papa wir landen.
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  #227  
Old 13.09.2008, 18:12
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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That depends on who you ask.

While it was in Australia, not the US, I had my phone I forgot to turn off ring or receive an SMS a few times at altitude on planes, and also witnessed it happen with other people's phones (this was ca. 1999-2001). In remote areas, my phone (a Nokia 3210, hardly high-end) would regularly lock onto cell towers 25-30km away, if it had line-of-site.

Of course, the whole "problem" here also hinges on those calls having been made from mobile phones, rather than seatback phones. The evidence says that most calls came from seatback phones and the mobile phone calls didn't start until 09:58, when the plane was at around 5000 feet.


The short version: a few mobile phone calls from a plane at around 5000 feet is not at all unreasonable.
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Expert opinion within the wireless telecom industry casts serious doubt on "the findings" of the 9/11 Commission. According to Alexa Graf, a spokesman of AT&T, commenting in the immediate wake of the 9/11 attacks:
"it was almost a fluke that the [9/11] calls reached their destinations... From high altitudes, the call quality is not very good, and most callers will experience drops. Although calls are not reliable, callers can pick up and hold calls for a little while below a certain altitude"( http://wirelessreview.com/ar/wireless_final_contact/ )
According to the report the calls happened at 8000 feet altitude (not in a low altitude) and lasted for several minutes. There was no interference noticeable whatsoever.

There's a big difference between receiving an SMS and making a call that lasts over several minutes with no signs of interference.
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  #228  
Old 13.09.2008, 18:46
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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According to the report the calls happened at 8000 feet altitude (not in a low altitude) and lasted for several minutes. There was no interference noticeable whatsoever.
From your link:

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Brenda Raney, Verizon Wireless spokesperson, said that RF signals actually can broadcast fairly high. On Sept. 11, the planes were flying low when people started using their phones. And, each call lasted 60 seconds or less.

“They also were digital phones, and there's a little bit more leeway on those digital phones, so it worked,” she said.


It helped that the planes were flying in areas with plenty of cell sites, too. Even United Airlines flight 93, which crashed in rural Pennsylvania, was supported by several nearby cell sites, Raney added.
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There's a big difference between receiving an SMS and making a call that lasts over several minutes with no signs of interference.
Again, I don't expect you to give this and this any credence, but others who are interested may find it helpful.
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  #229  
Old 13.09.2008, 20:31
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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According to the report the calls happened at 8000 feet altitude (not in a low altitude) and lasted for several minutes. There was no interference noticeable whatsoever.

There's a big difference between receiving an SMS and making a call that lasts over several minutes with no signs of interference.
Reading through all of your posts on this thread it appears to me that rather than you just believing this is a conspiracy, you actually really want it to be a conspiracy.

I'm all for questioning your governments possible lies and cover ups (sorry, from your profile no idea where you are from) but to assume that hundreds, if not a thousand or more government employees - officials and hired "guns" - were responsible for 9/11 is just pushing it too far. For me at least.
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  #230  
Old 11.09.2009, 14:10
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Can anyone else believe that it was 5 years ago today. What happened to all that time?
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  #231  
Old 11.09.2009, 14:13
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Can anyone else believe that it was 5 years ago today. What happened to all that time?
I don't believe it either. Feels more like 8 for some reason.
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Old 11.09.2009, 14:17
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Seems like in another era.
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Old 11.09.2009, 14:18
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Time goes slowly in Cowshitville obviously
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Old 11.09.2009, 14:19
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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I don't believe it either. Feels more like 8 for some reason.
Thanks for that Patxi, my mistake. Makes it even worse!
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  #235  
Old 12.09.2009, 11:26
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

I was walking up Bahnhofstrasse this morning and saw multiple chalk inscriptions into the sidewalk saying that 9/11 is a lie or that it was arranged by Bush.....something like that really angers me
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  #236  
Old 13.09.2009, 02:52
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Surely many of you have heard about Operation Northwoods before. I only mention this because some people seem to think the very notion of a government staging an attack on it's own people is totally ludicrous. "Operation Northwoods" was on the table back in the 1960's. In summary, the idea was for the CIA to lead in some terrorist attacks within the USA and blame/frame Cuba for them. The end goal was to create public support for a war against Cuba.

I just mention this in case nobody has heard of it. At one time I thought the idea of a government even thinking about staging an attack on its people to justify future plans was unthinkable. Boy was I living in the dark then....

Speaking on 911 itself, in my opinion, based upon all I have read, heard, and seen, there are way too many inconsistencies and improbabilities in their official story that it is insulting that we are expected to even believe them. I may as well be watching one of the Rambo films. Actually the Rambo films may have a hint more realism to them then CNN/FOX/BBCs accounts of 911.

Some of the red flags that hit me the hardest were:

Men who flunked out of flight school successfully pulling off highly improbable advanced flight maneuvers with a commercial airliner? Sounds a bit Hollywood to me.

NORAD basically "Standing Down" and not reacting according to their usual protocol? Wow just perfect timing to be undergoing a training exercise of that nature at that exact time. Look how long it took for a meaningful NORAD response on the day of 911. (How did NORAD respond to Golfer Payne Stewart's jet? Quite differently wouldn't you say?)

A Passport of an alleged highjacker found in tact at Ground Zero? (Paper meets an inferno yet it miraculously survives) Downright insulting.

Various demolition experts analysis that the Twin Towers were taken down controlled demolition style. (simply to the naked eye, in my opinion, it looks obvious enough)

Firefighters describing what they heard as bombs being set off.


The "Bin Laden" tape of November 2001.... This is actually supposed to be the same guy? Perhaps he had time to escape his hiding spot for a few late night visits to a Kandahar bakery??

There are countless more points that have been discussed to death on all of these types of films and in books... Perhaps some points may very well be biased of inaccurate and trying to prove something... But after reviewing as much info out there from both schools of thought, who's story sounds MORE far fetched? Be my guest if you want to believe people like Dick Chaney and Donald Rumsfeld.

Then you can just look at the aftermath or motive behind this.... "The War on Terror". This convenient never ending war. Do any Americans on here really feel safer now then before the wars? (Surely this had all to do with fighting for freedom and stopping the evil-doers and nothing whatsoever to do with oil refineries)

Furthermore, let's just say for argument sake, this official government version of 911 is not a fairy tale. If it is your position that the 911 attacks were indeed masterminded by a man in a cave on dialysis, fine..... Should we not look at who created his organization in the first place? While were at it, who sold Saddam biological weapons? Who looked the other way when the Kurds were being gassed? Yes these are relatively unrelated topics as it pertains specifically to 911, but they are nor unrelated when you step back and look at the big picture. Look at the key players involved. Father George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld. If these aren't war criminals, I do not know what one is...

Again, these are my opinions. If yours are completely the opposite, that's fine. At one time I believed the official story until I started connecting the dots. Just because Wolf Blitzer reports something in the "Situation Room" does not make it true. If you would like to label anyone who questions 911 as some wackjob conspiracy nut, that is your choice. I truly believe if you take any bias or preconceived ideals out of the equation, and review all the facts, you may be shocked and change your mind on it all the way I did.
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Old 13.09.2009, 06:40
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

I am in New York at the moment.

I think that it is pathetic to discuss conspiracy. Do that all you like, but not on the anniversary.

People died. Fact. And many are still mourning here.

You also become acutely aware on the subway of the prevalence of respiratory problems that all the people whom were involved in any capacity have.

I have not gone to the site. I feel it is is repulsive that that is a tourist attraction. However, you can still feel it as you walk anywhere in the financial district
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Old 13.09.2009, 10:31
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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then....
review all the facts, you may be shocked and change your mind on it all the way I did.
Don't worry about us being shocked. Wer'e all still reeling from the overwhelming evidence that JFK killed Lady Di at Roswell to cover up the fake moon landing.
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Old 13.09.2009, 10:32
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

****'s sake, give it a rest. We've seen the CIA tear itself to bits in public and they clearly couldn't have organised their way out of a wet paper bag at that point. How about just accepting, from time to time, that very bad things can happen without the need for a conspiracy theory to explain them away?
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Old 13.09.2009, 15:53
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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(snip)

Speaking on 911 itself, in my opinion, based upon all I have read, heard, and seen, there are way too many inconsistencies and improbabilities in their official story that it is insulting that we are expected to even believe them. I may as well be watching one of the Rambo films. Actually the Rambo films may have a hint more realism to them then CNN/FOX/BBCs accounts of 911.
Funny thing that... a film crew with opportunity to edit being more able to make their film seem "realistic" than someone reporting events as they happened while being in the midst of chaos themselves.

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Some of the red flags that hit me the hardest were:

Men who flunked out of flight school successfully pulling off highly improbable advanced flight maneuvers with a commercial airliner? Sounds a bit Hollywood to me.
I used to live near Embry Riddle Aeronautical University. Drove by it nearly daily in fact. As many as four times a day some days actually...

Worked with folks who attended there and even (omg!) took (and talked about) flight classes.

I have to say, even without having taken any flight classes myself, I find it incredible to think that being able to aim a plane, while in the air, at a really really frickin tall building would be "highly improbable advanced flight maneuvers."

It ain't that hard. The hard part is landing without killing anyone. That was not their goal though so it really was fairly easy to do what they did... from a pilot standpoint.

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NORAD basically "Standing Down" and not reacting according to their usual protocol? Wow just perfect timing to be undergoing a training exercise of that nature at that exact time. Look how long it took for a meaningful NORAD response on the day of 911. (How did NORAD respond to Golfer Payne Stewart's jet? Quite differently wouldn't you say?)
Hmm... Payne Stewart's jet... not remembering much significant there, omw to consult the great genie of information named Google.


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A Passport of an alleged highjacker found in tact at Ground Zero? (Paper meets an inferno yet it miraculously survives) Downright insulting.
I dunno about you but I was glued to the TV that day, even at work. Did you see the incredible volumes of paper that were simply floating around in the air?

I did.

I do not find it anything more than an interesting tidbit of happenstance that a passport from a passenger (ANY passenger) aboard one of those planes actually survived everything that happened. I bet there are lots of random bits of paper and bric-a-brac that survived.

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Various demolition experts analysis that the Twin Towers were taken down controlled demolition style. (simply to the naked eye, in my opinion, it looks obvious enough)

Firefighters describing what they heard as bombs being set off.
I've seen a video from scientists that say that due to the height and location of the buildings, many skycrapers are built so that they fall straight down.

I imagine that when one floor of a building falls directly down onto the next and the two fall down to the next (and so on), there are pockets of air that become trapped and when released, they make an explosive sound.

While I am relatively sure a firefighter would be able to tell the difference, I am even more sure that someone who is making a conspiracy video would purposefully edit things to make it fit the message they are wanting you to believe.




Now, I am done picking apart your post because it is tedious. Maybe I'll feel like coming back to it later... maybe not.

I DO find it quite interesting (a conspiracy perhaps?) that John1975 was thanked by Mark75. Two guys (presumably) born the same year (or had something other significant happen to them that year?) AND both named after prophets agreeing on something on the internet? Unpossible!



Oh, I did google the Payne Steward crash thing and it seems as though the situation was completely different.

NORAD responded in completely different ways to two completely different (and unrelated!) events.

Imagine that. It really makes me wonder.




One more thing, simply because conspiracy theory folks who harp on things that are still painful wounds for others really bring out the "spelling / grammar Nazi" in me...

The word is intact.
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