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  #141  
Old 09.02.2007, 01:42
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

It's difficult to know what to believe
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  #142  
Old 06.07.2008, 20:50
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Time to resurect this old thread. If you have access to BBC2 then tonight at 22:00 Swiss time the following programme is on: The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Third Tower. Will be interesting to see if any new evidence is presented and what the conclusions of the investigation are.
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  #143  
Old 06.07.2008, 21:01
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

I'm just waiting to put this in my Dreambox planner. Nice of www.bbc.co.uk to have it on the front page
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  #144  
Old 06.07.2008, 21:05
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

That is where I saw it too, would have missed it otherwise. Good old aunty.

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I'm just waiting to put this in my Dreambox planner. Nice of www.bbc.co.uk to have it on the front page
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  #145  
Old 07.07.2008, 20:06
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Did anyone watch the programme? I lost BBC on Sky so could not see it.
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  #146  
Old 10.07.2008, 14:36
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Admirable courage to post this - in the light of how much animosity and emotions the 9/11 subject usually brings out in any groups of people.

I can only remember one thing - one client of mine, centre-right italian industry manager, US cultured (Harley Davidson, holidays in Vegas and Miami and all that) telling me in no uncertain terms: "the americans made this up because it suits them best". To me this single sentence pronounced by that specific individual was the proverbial light bulb being switched on.

Paul
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  #147  
Old 10.07.2008, 15:01
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

I watched the program.

It was mostly based on loose change, and rebutts most of the evidence that Loose change supposedly found. With eye witness accounts of people on the ground, rather than the theories of people far removed from the event.

As an example, loose change is always showing the front of the tower, and no visible fires before the collapse. Therefore they conclude explosives must have been used. The BBC documentary showed the back of the building, with flames and smoke spewing out. Loose change mentions explosions being heard, the BBC doc showed huge chunks of debris from one of the towers hitting the building.

My personal opinion is that most of these conspiracies are concocted by losers with too much time on their hands, with grand theories that grow and grow in size as more and more people are involved in the cover up, as each of their carefully worked out theories is dismissed with scientific and eye witness accounts.
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  #148  
Old 10.09.2008, 18:28
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Just a small bump for this thread as tomorrow morning marks SEVEN years since this sad event.

Any new sources of information? New programmes? I watched "The Falling Man" where they tried to identify a guy who went from near the top but it was purely emotional speculation on whether it was a guy working in the kitchen of the restaurant - no conspiracy.

So do we still believe? Are we all all-for the PATRIOT act (especially US citizens)?

And of course spare a moment tomorrow for those souls lost in this event; no matter how it happened, people perished.
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  #149  
Old 10.09.2008, 18:41
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Just a small bump for this thread as tomorrow morning marks SEVEN years since this sad event.

Any new sources of information? New programmes?
I watched a documentary the other night about the relatives who stayed at Ground Zero for months waiting for some trace of their loved ones to be identified. Until they had some tangible evidence, they were unable to properly let go.

Rod
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  #150  
Old 10.09.2008, 18:46
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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I watched a documentary the other night about the relatives who stayed at Ground Zero for months waiting for some trace of their loved ones to be identified. Until they had some tangible evidence, they were unable to properly let go.

Rod
I was in Gran Canaria, the destination for the fatal Spanair flight from Madrid. I saw exactly the same thing and I have insider "information" that people were pretty desperate and acted out of character when trying to get news of their loves ones.

That's what singles us out as different from most animals and what makes us also vulnerable.

Closure. Hard when all you can get back is confirmation that your relative was confirmed on the passenger manifest and not as a survivor.
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  #151  
Old 10.09.2008, 18:55
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Just a small bump for this thread as tomorrow morning marks SEVEN years since this sad event.

Any new sources of information?
A professional engineer friend of mine recently told me that he was stunned by some DVDs being circulated by a group called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (<-links to their site). I haven't personally seen any of them, but he said that from an engineer's perspective, they're very compelling. A lot of officials and self-styled authorities claim to have debunked the idea that the WTC collapse was a classic controlled demolition, but according to my friend these guys present a pretty unassailable case. FWIW, I count 465 professional architects and engineers out of all 2817 who have signed their petition.
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Last edited by Texaner; 10.09.2008 at 19:00. Reason: corrected numbers
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  #152  
Old 10.09.2008, 19:05
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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So do we still believe? Are we all all-for the PATRIOT act (especially US citizens)?
I believe the memory of those who perished has been partly sullied by the actions of the US and British governments in the weeks/months/years after. The tone of that exploitation was probably set on day 1, when a Labour advisor sent a memo indicating that 'today would be a good day to bury bad news'

Civil wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and hundreds of thousands dead are not fitting memories to the events of 9/11. If anything the world is a far more dangerous place than it was 6 years ago, so what has been achieved?

If only the powers that be had listened to the victim's families when they said "Not in our Name".
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  #153  
Old 10.09.2008, 19:42
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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Just a small bump for this thread as tomorrow morning marks SEVEN years since this sad event.

Any new sources of information? New programmes? I watched "The Falling Man" where they tried to identify a guy who went from near the top but it was purely emotional speculation on whether it was a guy working in the kitchen of the restaurant - no conspiracy.

So do we still believe? Are we all all-for the PATRIOT act (especially US citizens)?

And of course spare a moment tomorrow for those souls lost in this event; no matter how it happened, people perished.

Yes, well I lived in NYC at the time, and was a very strange place to be for the few months following the event. I didn't personally know anyone killed directly but still impacted me in so many ways.

I do believe it was an act of terrorism. But I also think that the Bush White House used it in the worst possible way and has made the world a much worse place than pre 9/11.

The Patriot Act, the name alone says enough. For a country, which is based on freedom and the rights of man (read the Constitution) this is a huge step backwards. And now my country is debating whether one Presidential candidate called a VP candidate a pig.....rolling eyes. Only in America.
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  #154  
Old 10.09.2008, 19:51
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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FWIW, I count 465 professional architects and engineers out of all 2817 who have signed their petition.
Of course there's the now-celebrity scientist trying to have CERN stop its LHC for fear it is going to cause a black hole - based on theories proved to be erroneous in 1915 already.

There was also a PhD in electrical engineering who tried to convince me that fuses not only do not exist, but should they exist they're never used for electrical installations.
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  #155  
Old 10.09.2008, 20:13
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

I was watching the movie about flight 93 on SF2 last night. One of the things that struck me the most about the film was the inaccuracies about some of the security measures at US airports on Sept 11th 2001.

The film showed people going through security checkpoints just like we have now (all be it with no ques!), these checkpoints really only came seriously into use after Sept 11th. I flew through 3 different US airports on the 8th of September 2001 and not once did I go through an x-ray machine.

The cockpit doors were locked and the crew were supposed to give a special lock on the way in. I believe policy to lock the doors came in after sept 11th too. I remember seeing the cockpit door wide open on a few flights prior to 9/11.

9/11 was certainly a day that changed the world, unfortunately the actions of certain world leaders in the aftermath served to make things considerable worse. IMHO.
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  #156  
Old 10.09.2008, 20:39
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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I was watching the movie about flight 93 on SF2 last night. One of the things that struck me the most about the film was the inaccuracies about some of the security measures at US airports on Sept 11th 2001.

The film showed people going through security checkpoints just like we have now (all be it with no ques!), these checkpoints really only came seriously into use after Sept 11th. I flew through 3 different US airports on the 8th of September 2001 and not once did I go through an x-ray machine.

The cockpit doors were locked and the crew were supposed to give a special lock on the way in. I believe policy to lock the doors came in after sept 11th too. I remember seeing the cockpit door wide open on a few flights prior to 9/11.

9/11 was certainly a day that changed the world, unfortunately the actions of certain world leaders in the aftermath served to make things considerable worse. IMHO.
I think that film wasn't meant to be a documentary. It's a Hollywood drama.
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  #157  
Old 10.09.2008, 20:43
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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I think that film wasn't meant to be a documentary. It's a Hollywood drama.
Yes, I realise that. That's a whole other point which I didn't comment on.
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  #158  
Old 10.09.2008, 21:08
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

If one thinks the conspiracy theories are outlandish. Remember Pearl Harbour, that has also unanswered questions, like how come the US knew about it 3 hours beforehand? Why were no aircraft carriers in the harbour?

I am not saying I believe every theory, but I think similarly there are a lot of unanswered questions, and some answers that have been given that just do not fit.
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Old 10.09.2008, 21:19
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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A professional engineer friend of mine recently told me that he was stunned by some DVDs being circulated by a group called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (<-links to their site). I haven't personally seen any of them, but he said that from an engineer's perspective, they're very compelling. A lot of officials and self-styled authorities claim to have debunked the idea that the WTC collapse was a classic controlled demolition, but according to my friend these guys present a pretty unassailable case. FWIW, I count 465 professional architects and engineers out of all 2817 who have signed their petition.
The lack of anyone noticing the massive amount of very intrusive work - to say nothing of tons and tons of explosives arriving to the buildings - in the months preceding 9/11, makes a compelling argument against it, however.

That it didn't look like a controlled demolition (which typically start from the bottom of the building) doesn't help, either.
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Old 10.09.2008, 21:20
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Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

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If one thinks the conspiracy theories are outlandish. Remember Pearl Harbour, that has also unanswered questions, like how come the US knew about it 3 hours beforehand? Why were no aircraft carriers in the harbour?

I am not saying I believe every theory, but I think similarly there are a lot of unanswered questions, and some answers that have been given that just do not fit.
If you have doubts about the official story I can try to help you figuring out a story with less flaws.

I've recently noticed that there are more and more people who are starting to question the official story. There was a survey conducted in New York City that found out that over 50% of the citizens don't fully believe in the official story.

Most people, including many on this forum as I recently found out though, don't want to believe in a world where people pursue their own interests, but rather in one where they are spreading democracy and freedom into the world.
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