Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 10.09.2008, 22:01
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,985 Times in 1,430 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
The lack of anyone noticing the massive amount of very intrusive work - to say nothing of tons and tons of explosives arriving to the buildings...
There are reports of unusual building maintenance patterns, and I don't know how much thermate would be necessary, but in any demolition, strategic charge placement can obviate the need for 'tons and tons.'

Quote:
View Post
...it didn't look like a controlled demolition (which typically start from the bottom of the building)...
Typically, yes. Always, no:

Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 10.09.2008, 22:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
Typically, yes. Always, no:
Get prepared to get lots of bad reputation points and be called a conspiracy nut.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #163  
Old 10.09.2008, 22:54
Arizona Ben's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 119
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 101 Times in 36 Posts
Arizona Ben has earned some respectArizona Ben has earned some respect
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
If you have doubts about the official story I can try to help you figuring out a story with less flaws.

I've recently noticed that there are more and more people who are starting to question the official story. There was a survey conducted in New York City that found out that over 50% of the citizens don't fully believe in the official story.

Most people, including many on this forum as I recently found out though, don't want to believe in a world where people pursue their own interests, but rather in one where they are spreading democracy and freedom into the world.
First let me express my emotional thoughts about 9/11--not the aftermath and subsequent years, the actual event itself. I remember hearing on the radio about the attacks on my way to getting coffee before teaching at my high school. I remember watching the events unfold (on TV) in the morning with my high school students, and processing these events with them through the late morning and afternoon. I will always remember so many things about that day. But, what I remember most is watching the towers actually fall--it was just incomprehensible that these buildings, which I had been to many times were gone forever.

Xapadoo, to be fair, first I'll tell you what I think happened on and after 9/11. I think Al Qaeda launched a horrific but obviously well planned attack upon the U.S. and it succeeded. The hijackers have all been identified and we know where they came from and where they were trained in most cases. The U.S. did not allow this attack to happen, it happened because the U.S. failed on all sorts of levels of security in preventing such an attack.

After the attack, I believe the U.S. government made all sorts of mistakes that I strongly disagree with...the Patriot Act, the War in Iraq, how they have fought the War in Afghanistan, how they have conducted international affairs for the last 8 years. But, this does not for a minute change my opinion of what the original event was--a successful premeditated, horrific attack by an experienced terrorist organization. There was no conspiracy. A conspiracy of this magnitude is in my opinion impossible to carry out without knowledge leaking out, people leaking information, and a host of other information that would have come out in the last 7 years.

I really need to know where you are coming from Xapadoo...what exactly do you think happened on 9/11? Do you think that hijackers didn't hijack planes and fly into the buildings? Do you think that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda weren't responsible? Do you think it was a ploy by the U.S. govt. to kill people from close to 80 different countries so that they could use it to spread freedom and democracy through wars? Do you think that the planes hit the buildings, but that the buildings were actually destroyed by an intentional demolition? Or do you just not trust the official story? I'm not sure at what exactly you are getting at with your 9/11 and Osama related posts. To me it seems that you want to connect what you view as current failures of U.S./western policy with the events of 9/11 itself. To me they are seperate issues. The U.S. has failed in several areas since, but the events of 9/11 are still just as deplorable, just as horrible, and the same thing still happened--Al Qaeda attacked the U.S.

You made a comment about fifty percent of New Yorkers having doubts about the official events (I paraphrase here). Did you know that in some opinion surveys that have been taken, up to 80% of Americans believe in a JFK conspiracy of some sort. That does not mean that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the sole assassin of JFK, just in my opinion that 80% of Americans weren't willing to accept that one bizarre, disturbed, strange man could take down an icon like Kennedy. To use another example, just because well over 50% of Americans say they don't buy the theory of evolution doesn't mean that there is now a doubt about the theory of evolution from the scientific community. In the same light, it is natural that as more and more people come at this story (9/11) from different angles, doubts will be put into many people's minds about what exactly happened--and I think this will continue as time goes by. I really think there is a common physchological tendency to want to believe in conspiracies. They are so exciting, so much more exciting than what is usually the truth.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Arizona Ben for this useful post:
  #164  
Old 10.09.2008, 23:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
There are reports of unusual building maintenance patterns, and I don't know how much thermate would be necessary, but in any demolition, strategic charge placement can obviate the need for 'tons and tons.'
The tallest building ever taken down in a controlled demolition was about 1/3 the height of the WTC towers, and used around 3000 pounds (= about 1.5 tons) of explosives to do it.

It took something like 3-4 weeks to wire everything up (obviously, with no need for secrecy).


With that in mind, consider the quantity of explosives likely necessary to bring down the WTC towers, and how long it would take to lay them without anyone noticing (assuming that is even possible). Consider also that the expertise necessary to complete that sort of task isn't exactly widespread.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 10.09.2008, 23:19
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,985 Times in 1,430 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
Get prepared to get lots of bad reputation points and be called a conspiracy nut.
Thanks for the warning!
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 10.09.2008, 23:26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
First let me express my emotional thoughts about 9/11--not the aftermath and subsequent years, the actual event itself. I remember hearing on the radio about the attacks on my way to getting coffee before teaching at my high school. I remember watching the events unfold (on TV) in the morning with my high school students, and processing these events with them through the late morning and afternoon. I will always remember so many things about that day. But, what I remember most is watching the towers actually fall--it was just incomprehensible that these buildings, which I had been to many times were gone forever.

Xapadoo, to be fair, first I'll tell you what I think happened on and after 9/11. I think Al Qaeda launched a horrific but obviously well planned attack upon the U.S. and it succeeded. The hijackers have all been identified and we know where they came from and where they were trained in most cases. The U.S. did not allow this attack to happen, it happened because the U.S. failed on all sorts of levels of security in preventing such an attack.

After the attack, I believe the U.S. government made all sorts of mistakes that I strongly disagree with...the Patriot Act, the War in Iraq, how they have fought the War in Afghanistan, how they have conducted international affairs for the last 8 years. But, this does not for a minute change my opinion of what the original event was--a successful premeditated, horrific attack by an experienced terrorist organization. There was no conspiracy. A conspiracy of this magnitude is in my opinion impossible to carry out without knowledge leaking out, people leaking information, and a host of other information that would have come out in the last 7 years.

I really need to know where you are coming from Xapadoo...what exactly do you think happened on 9/11? Do you think that hijackers didn't hijack planes and fly into the buildings? Do you think that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda weren't responsible? Do you think it was a ploy by the U.S. govt. to kill people from close to 80 different countries so that they could use it to spread freedom and democracy through wars? Do you think that the planes hit the buildings, but that the buildings were actually destroyed by an intentional demolition? Or do you just not trust the official story? I'm not sure at what exactly you are getting at with your 9/11 and Osama related posts. To me it seems that you want to connect what you view as current failures of U.S./western policy with the events of 9/11 itself. To me they are seperate issues. The U.S. has failed in several areas since, but the events of 9/11 are still just as deplorable, just as horrible, and the same thing still happened--Al Qaeda attacked the U.S.

You made a comment about fifty percent of New Yorkers having doubts about the official events (I paraphrase here). Did you know that in some opinion surveys that have been taken, up to 80% of Americans believe in a JFK conspiracy of some sort. That does not mean that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the sole assassin of JFK, just in my opinion that 80% of Americans weren't willing to accept that one bizarre, disturbed, strange man could take down an icon like Kennedy. To use another example, just because well over 50% of Americans say they don't buy the theory of evolution doesn't mean that there is now a doubt about the theory of evolution from the scientific community. In the same light, it is natural that as more and more people come at this story (9/11) from different angles, doubts will be put into many people's minds about what exactly happened--and I think this will continue as time goes by. I really think there is a common physchological tendency to want to believe in conspiracies. They are so exciting, so much more exciting than what is usually the truth.
First of all, thank you for your reasonable reply.

I have read / watched myself into the issue for many hours. I watched documentaries from the so called "conspiracy nuts" and documentaries arguing for the "official story" as well.

So I can give you a few hints were to start digging if you want.

I do think the events following 9/11, which some see as a "Trigger" to get the support to what came after the attacks are very dangerous indeed and may (if not stopped) may lead into wars that affect European security.

But let's leave that away for a moment.

Having watched nearly all 9/11 videos on youtube and google video during my vacation, both from the pro "official story" and the anti "official story" I concluded that there were at least half a dozen "facts" of the official story that were simply not possible (Like the plane that crashed in Pensylvania and left just a small hole, with no debree or any plane parts around it whatsoever). Now, if the official 9/11 report is wrong on one point, it is likely that others don't match up either.

Like for example this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
(The terrorists identified in the 9/11 report actually still alive and well)

Also, the main investigator of Osama Bin Laden at the FBI was shortly before the attacks fired. He got a new job as security chief at the world trade center 1 day before the attacks. He was never seen again and is presumed to be a victim of the attacks.

I could name you many more other "facts" that don't match up.

I'd recommend you to watch this video:


Watch the whole video, no matter if you think it's lies. Afterwards we can discuss what might be wrong in that video.

Quote:
View Post
I really think there is a common physchological tendency to want to believe in conspiracies. They are so exciting, so much more exciting than what is usually the truth.
Fact is, there always have been conspiracies in the history of man (Just look at the Roman Emperor Nero or that insane guy in Germany).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #167  
Old 10.09.2008, 23:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
I could name you many more other "facts" that don't match up.
Please do. Tell us about these "facts" that "don't match the laws of physics" (as your post said, originally, before you edited it).
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 11.09.2008, 00:14
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,872
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

This is a pretty fascinating thread, only read the first three pages, it makes me miss Mark, even though I didn't know him, I would have loved to discuss this with him. His thourougness(sp?) and rational approach to the topic is amazing.

Last edited by dakman; 11.09.2008 at 01:19.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dakman for this useful post:
  #169  
Old 11.09.2008, 00:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
Watch the whole video, no matter if you think it's lies. Afterwards we can discuss what might be wrong in that video.
... if the video is still there by the time you want to discuss it...

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #170  
Old 11.09.2008, 01:05
higgybaby's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,044
Groaned at 44 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 815 Times in 422 Posts
higgybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond reputehiggybaby has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
If only the powers that be had listened to the victim's families when they said "Not in our Name".
Who knows what we'd think if it was our family member (or countrymen) who was killed in such a spectacular and monumental way as 911?

I'm not entirely sure if the majority of US families would have said, "Not In Our Name" at the time.

I'm not sure how NION started, if it was famous people or vicitms' familes but it's convenient to say they (or Bush) should have thought this way seven years on, but the momentum of the US public opinion would surely still have a good deal of rage even six months after 911. (How a nation deals with outrage is debatable).

Hindsight is not always twenty twenty.
I'm not trying to be argumentative but I can understand the US zeitgeist may not have been conciliatory.
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 11.09.2008, 01:24
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
Having watched nearly all 9/11 videos on youtube and google video during my vacation, both from the pro "official story" and the anti "official story" I concluded that there were at least half a dozen "facts" of the official story that were simply not possible (Like the plane that crashed in Pensylvania and left just a small hole, with no debree or any plane parts around it whatsoever). Now, if the official 9/11 report is wrong on one point, it is likely that others don't match up either.
About the only plausible thing about these theories is that that plane may well have been shot down, what a horrible decision that would have been to make. Even if it was shot down, how do you think the best way to deal with that would be? Does it prove that anyone else was involved? Or that the best was made of a terrible situation? Or are you going to tell us that actually, no one died, that it was all made up, the grieving families are an elaborate hoax.

The more you actually think about the human elements supposedly involved in these conspiracies, the more ridiculous they become, as thousands of people are involved in a cover up.

You cite previous conspiracies as if they are the same as today. Fascism is a frightening example of what people can do in groups, but I don't think it was ever a conspiracy as you seem to imply is happening today, a secret shadowy movement, hiding their tracks, never boasting or leaking. In fact, the Nazi party promoted a Jewish conspiracy to instill fear and doubt into their fellow countrymen, have you ever thought that you might be being manipulated by the fringe? I mean, it seems to me that a lot of these conspiracies seem to come from right wing sources.

I said before that I don't believe in these massive conspiracies because I have faith in humanity, but I think maybe that's wrong, maybe I have no faith in humanity, we're just too vain and fallible to pull these things off, or too noble to let them happen.

At least David Icke had the right idea, he said aliens were behind it all, that's slightly more believable to me.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 11.09.2008, 01:32
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,985 Times in 1,430 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
The tallest building ever taken down in a controlled demolition was about 1/3 the height of the WTC towers, and used around 3000 pounds (= about 1.5 tons) of explosives to do it.
I think 'explosives' versus thermate/thermite is an apples/oranges comparison, since thermate/thermite is an incendiary substance, not an explosive. There may or may not even be a 'tallest building ever taken down in a controlled demolition' precedent using thermate/thermite if explosives are cheaper and easier to use.
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 11.09.2008, 02:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
I think 'explosives' versus thermate/thermite is an apples/oranges comparison, since thermate/thermite is an incendiary substance, not an explosive. There may or may not even be a 'tallest building ever taken down in a controlled demolition' precedent using thermate/thermite if explosives are cheaper and easier to use.
So the primary evidence for a controlled demolition is what it looked like, but it was supposedly done with a chemical compound that acts in a fundamentally different manner to the explosives used in controlled demolitions ?
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 11.09.2008, 04:18
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,985 Times in 1,430 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
So the primary evidence for a controlled demolition is what it looked like, but it was supposedly done with a chemical compound that acts in a fundamentally different manner to the explosives used in controlled demolitions ?
Yes, exactly. Controlled demolitions have a distinct appearance. By 'controlled' is meant orderly, sequenced execution of the dismantling mechanisms, not necessarily what type of mechanism is used. Even a controlled demolition accomplished with explosives is not necessarily distinguished by an abundance of visible explosions, as the dismantling mechanisms are executed inside the structure.

I think it also bears pointing out that the alleged use of thermate/thermite doesn't preclude the use of explosives as well. The two chief reasons I am aware of that both incendiary methods and controlled demolition have been alleged at all are: 1) the presence of much molten steel in the collapsed structure, and 2) the lack of another plausible explanation for the complete collapse of the steel structures, since other available fuels are said not to have been capable of generating adequate heat to bring about that result.
__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 11.09.2008, 08:01
swissotter's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,298
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 3,412 Times in 1,402 Posts
swissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond reputeswissotter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

9/11
i remember.....that's all. xoxo
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swissotter for this useful post:
  #176  
Old 11.09.2008, 08:44
Dodger's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lörrach/DE
Posts: 644
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 568 Times in 294 Posts
Dodger has an excellent reputationDodger has an excellent reputationDodger has an excellent reputationDodger has an excellent reputation
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Commonly forgotten is the other "September 11" event that led to the deaths of thousands.

On 11 September 1973, the democratically elected government of Chile was overthrown in a coup that led to the establishment of Pinochet's military dictatorship that stayed in power for 17 years, during which thousands of people died or disappeared. The effects of this still have not completely gone away and probably never will. Just because the whole thing didn't happen live on TV doesn't make it any less significant or deplorable.

Not only one bad thing happened today. Don't forget that.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Dodger for this useful post:
  #177  
Old 11.09.2008, 08:46
tomcat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Stewdguard, Germany
Posts: 2,051
Groaned at 45 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 929 Times in 609 Posts
tomcat has a reputation beyond reputetomcat has a reputation beyond reputetomcat has a reputation beyond reputetomcat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
9/11
i remember.....that's all. xoxo
Amen to that.

Maybe we, too, should follow the presidential candidates' lead and refrain from campaigning today?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank tomcat for this useful post:
  #178  
Old 11.09.2008, 09:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,514
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
There are reports of unusual building maintenance patterns, and I don't know how much thermate would be necessary, but in any demolition, strategic charge placement can obviate the need for 'tons and tons.'
The reports don't mention thermate (it's thermite by the way) but rather thermite-like traces, i.e. evidence of aluminium-based reactions.

Which you'd sort of expect when you pulverise (as opposed to melting a slab in a pan like the kind professor did) a quantity of aluminium (say, like, an airplane) and combine it with fire.

But that's just me.

Last edited by Shorrick Mk2; 11.09.2008 at 09:37.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Shorrick Mk2 for this useful post:
  #179  
Old 11.09.2008, 11:22
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,089
Groaned at 47 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 2,399 Times in 1,137 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
This is a pretty fascinating thread, only read the first three pages, it makes me miss Mark, even though I didn't know him, I would have loved to discuss this with him. His thourougness(sp?) and rational approach to the topic is amazing.
Have just spent some time reading the whole thread, i had not come across it before. Agree with dakmans sentiments completely.

Previously I would have been in the camp saying "what the hell happened at the pentagon" but due to the links referenced earlier by Mark it changed my opinion somewhat.
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 11.09.2008, 13:23
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 9/11 - nearly 5 years on

Quote:
View Post
I believe the memory of those who perished has been partly sullied by the actions of the US and British governments in the weeks/months/years after. The tone of that exploitation was probably set on day 1, when a Labour advisor sent a memo indicating that 'today would be a good day to bury bad news'

Civil wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and hundreds of thousands dead are not fitting memories to the events of 9/11. If anything the world is a far more dangerous place than it was 6 years ago, so what has been achieved?

If only the powers that be had listened to the victim's families when they said "Not in our Name".
Hence the flaw in our (US / British) political systems. We vote for representatives to do the job for us. They do whatever they like in the meatime between elections and we sit around and vote them all back in again next time around.

You, dear reader, do know the name of your political representative, don't you?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
911, terrorist attack




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0