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  #41  
Old 28.01.2011, 18:38
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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There is one anecdote that when the motor car was invented that one pundit predicted the invention would never catch on because (he said) where would you take all the men with the red flags from who have to march down the street in front of the cars? Naysayers are often wrong because they think too much within the paradigm of their own time and cannot see that conditions may change.
Yesmen are wrong just as often. For instance, the fule cell was invented 180 years ago, and huge monies have been invested in its devolopment, yet it's still far from being fit for large-scale use.

Another example: Billions have been put in nuclear fusion in the course of 60 years. In the 'fifties, popular technical magazines went over board over fusion going to be the main energy source in the 'sixties. We are still waiting for a fusion reactor that produces more energy than it gobbles up.

See my first post on this thread.
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  #42  
Old 28.01.2011, 19:32
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

Sorry, was out for a spin in my flying car. So, how's it looking, 1 year and 3 months in on this fine 40-year plan? Everything still on track?

Pardon? Oh, sorry! I was basing the timescale on the author's cunning plan that they published back in 2009, so by my reckoning we should be a smidge over 3% complete by now... unless, of course, the authors are AMNA academics
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  #43  
Old 28.01.2011, 20:28
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

The sources of energy are there: fossil fuels, solar, wind, waves and etc. It is only a question how to harness and store it. The technologies are still expensive but research progresses and one day we will have what we are looking for...

It all evolves from ancient times when slaves used to turn the huge wheels and galleries ( btw Conan is the only one who survived) to modern wind turbines. Give it a time!

Planet earth should suffice for a while. If not then the extraterrestrial voyages will be organized in quest for stellar energy It is slowly coming...

If only Conan new his muscles would be needed again one day when all of the above has failed!
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  #44  
Old 28.01.2011, 20:59
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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Fossil fuels won't be out of the energy mix for the next 75 years at least. At the moment, the market is moving towards natural gas as a stop-gap fuel for when wind and and solar power plants aren't providing power. It's the cleanest fossil fuel available and the infrastructure is there, with more pipelines and LNG plants being built every year. You can also store it, which you can't do with renewable for the moment. You'll also see more nuclear power plants once people get over tree-hugger propaganda and realize that nuclear waste isn't some neo-green sludge that kills everything within 100km of it and that it's a plentiful and non-polluting power source when done right (see France).

Wind energy has become very effective in some places. On certain days during the year, it provides over 70% of Spain's energy, for example.
About "Wind energy has become very effective in some places. On certain days during the year, it provides over 70% of Spain's energy, for example"

True but the problem with Wind energy is that you have to provide an equal amount of reliable power generation for the times the wind is not blowing. So effectively wind energy costs double because you have build double the power generation capacity.
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  #45  
Old 28.01.2011, 21:07
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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All these things are temporary. technology is progressing and new things are being developed all the time.

There is one anecdote that when the motor car was invented that one pundit predicted the invention would never catch on because (he said) where would you take all the men with the red flags from who have to march down the street in front of the cars? Naysayers are often wrong because they think too much within the paradigm of their own time and cannot see that conditions may change.

There are already several different solutions in the pipeline to cover for wind power when the wind stops blowing.

CSP plants make solar energy that is not just available during the day but continues to flow throughout the night because the conversion is not direct but through the intermediate of steam which can be stored for tens of hours.

As for subsidies, yes, renwable energy does require subsidies, just as conventional forms of energy do. Fortunately, in contrast to oil subsidies, those subsidies are not payed in the price of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
About "Fortunately, in contrast to oil subsidies, those subsidies are not payed in the price of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan
You do not foresee similar battles to control those areas most suitable for maximum solar & wind energy generation?

By the way, how long has Afghanistan been an oil producer?
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  #46  
Old 28.01.2011, 21:23
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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True but the problem with Wind energy is that you have to provide an equal amount of reliable power generation for the times the wind is not blowing. So effectively wind energy costs double because you have build double the power generation capacity.
Aye, there's the rub - during the two snow'n'ice sessions in the UK last Nov/Dec, most days here on the West Coast of Scotland (one of the homes of wind and waves) were calmer than a millpond.

So here we are in the middle of winter, sub-zero temps for a week or more so higher demand than at any other time, with minimal wind or wave power, and greatly-reduced solar because it's winter - how's that gonna work?

I've always been wary of such California-originating cra-stuff since the great catalyser cockup - the one where everyone overlooked/ignored the fact that CA is warmer than most places and pushed catalysers at the expense of lean-burn technology. ...overlooking the huge differences in typical journey times and distances between there and most of Yoorp, for example. Oops!
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  #47  
Old 28.01.2011, 21:46
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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All these things are temporary. technology is progressing and new things are being developed all the time.

There is one anecdote that when the motor car was invented that one pundit predicted the invention would never catch on because (he said) where would you take all the men with the red flags from who have to march down the street in front of the cars? Naysayers are often wrong because they think too much within the paradigm of their own time and cannot see that conditions may change.

There are already several different solutions in the pipeline to cover for wind power when the wind stops blowing.

CSP plants make solar energy that is not just available during the day but continues to flow throughout the night because the conversion is not direct but through the intermediate of steam which can be stored for tens of hours.

As for subsidies, yes, renwable energy does require subsidies, just as conventional forms of energy do. Fortunately, in contrast to oil subsidies, those subsidies are not payed in the price of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
About "CSP plants make solar energy that is not just available during the day but continues to flow throughout the night because the conversion is not direct but through the intermediate of steam which can be stored for tens of hours."

Now CSP plants work best in unused desert with no pollution. Where do you think such places exist & could they be peacefully taken over?
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  #48  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:15
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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Where do you think such places exist & could they be peacefully taken over?
Gobi, Sahara to name just two....why take them over?
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  #49  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:25
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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Gobi, Sahara to name just two....why take them over?
I have no clue; maybe the locals do not want you building solar power stations there.

I was just trying to make the point that if you switch from oil to say, solar, it does not make the problems go away that Amogles was quoting re Iraq & Afghanistan - not that I agree with his view about Iraq & Afghanistan.
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  #50  
Old 29.01.2011, 04:59
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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I have no clue; maybe the locals do not want you building solar power stations there.
The point I was trying to make and perhaps you would see if you visited the Saharha or the Gobi is that there are no locals, and if you really want to count the couple of people that live there, they want in.
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  #51  
Old 29.01.2011, 11:49
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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The point I was trying to make and perhaps you would see if you visited the Saharha or the Gobi is that there are no locals, and if you really want to count the couple of people that live there, they want in.
The point I wanted to make is that as soon as an area appears to have value then the claims, counter claims & war like noises start.

Practically nobody lives in the Artic either but look at what is happening there because people perceive it will have value after the ice is gone (or sooner), don't like to quote Wiki's but not a bad summary here (& for good measure Antartica claims)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo..._in_the_Arctic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo..._in_Antarctica

Sadly nobody is interested in local people's views or desires once it looks like "Big Bucks" in play.

I did visit the Sahara once; surprising number of people wandering around (using horses, camels, cars, trucks, motor bikes & a surprising number of bicycles) but I assume most do not live there.

Last edited by marton; 29.01.2011 at 11:49. Reason: spelling again!
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  #52  
Old 29.01.2011, 14:41
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

Okay, so this is part of the problem as well. As we always see with any implementation of a technology solution to solve any global problem, politics, greed and people's idiocy is going to play a big role in what could be a pretty simple technical challenge. Sigh.
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  #53  
Old 30.01.2011, 23:13
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Re: 100% renewable energy in 40 years IS possible....

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Yes, we will definitely affect our lives negatively. I would agree that we have to curb our energy consumption but this should not be the prime objective in the world as there are plenty more pressing issue that need to be addressed. The clouds will disappear because we would be using anything that causes exhaust fumes etc. remember when Ujsdhfuighdcbrkauirbku errupted in Island and there were no planes flying for a while...did you notice how clear the sky was? Well, no imagine if cars wouldn't spit out exhaust fumes as well...we'd be pretty messed up in the long run.
Excellent! This post is a joke ...isnt it?
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