Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 03.02.2011, 15:38
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,631
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

This gets more unbelievable by the hour... the military forces have completely disappeared from the scene. Mubarak has apparently decided that the best course of action is to let the mob take over, and when enough blood has been shed, he will send in the guns and 'clean up', thereby reasserting his authority and legitimacy.

Politicians everywhere meanwhile are mouthing platitudes and scratching their b@lls...
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03.02.2011, 15:43
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
Politicians everywhere meanwhile are mouthing platitudes and scratching their b@lls...
It is all that they are good for I tell you!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04.02.2011, 01:06
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

So this is where the title of this thread came from
US blindsided by Egypt unrest



You know RT really must make their minds up, here's another RT report saying that the US ORCHESTRATED IT.

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04.02.2011, 03:30
My2pups's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Used to be Zurich
Posts: 1,706
Groaned at 94 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 1,989 Times in 870 Posts
My2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

The word "most" does not show up until your 7th paragraph...

fduvall

Quote:
View Post
Had I not chosen a qualifier like most then perhaps your comment would be accurate
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04.02.2011, 08:46
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
So this is where the title of this thread came from
Who's getting their news from RT?
RT's so anti-American it even makes Khruschev smile.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04.02.2011, 12:22
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,606
Groaned at 571 Times in 484 Posts
Thanked 20,877 Times in 10,964 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
This gets more unbelievable by the hour... the military forces have completely disappeared from the scene. Mubarak has apparently decided that the best course of action is to let the mob take over, and when enough blood has been shed, he will send in the guns and 'clean up', thereby reasserting his authority and legitimacy.

Politicians everywhere meanwhile are mouthing platitudes and scratching their b@lls...
Dangerous tactic
Clears the way for a military coup where the military could use exactly the same approach & strategy & do it more convincingly than Mubarek.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04.02.2011, 13:41
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,631
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
Dangerous tactic
Clears the way for a military coup where the military could use exactly the same approach & strategy & do it more convincingly than Mubarek.
very true Marton.... except it's not clear where Mubarak ends and the military begins...

He now claims he's fed up and wants to leave, but cannot because that would lead to chaos... Hello?? LEAD TO??? Have you not been watching CNN, Mr President??

It sounds to me like I would like to leave but $40Bn is nearly not enough for a good life... besides the good life in Saudi is not very good at all ..
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04.02.2011, 13:43
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,631
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
So this is where the title of this thread came from
US blindsided by Egypt unrest
First, I don't watch RT, whatever that is...
second, I knew that word already
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04.02.2011, 13:43
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,606
Groaned at 571 Times in 484 Posts
Thanked 20,877 Times in 10,964 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
very true Marton.... except it's not clear where Mubarak ends and the military begins...

He now claims he's fed up and wants to leave, but cannot because that would lead to chaos... Hello?? LEAD TO??? Have you not been watching CNN, Mr President??

It sounds to me like I would like to leave but $40Bn is nearly not enough for a good life... besides the good life in Saudi is not very good at all ..
Depends on the ambitions of the military & whether they think they will get more with, or without, Mr M.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04.02.2011, 14:48
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Graubünden
Posts: 636
Groaned at 69 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 255 Posts
Wasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputation
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

The situation in Middle East was the same about 30 years ago and after various political assassinations in most Mid East countries, US friendly governments were installed to help with Dollar superiority.

Same situation again, just that people are more aware and populations have grown. US is not blindsided, only the politcal frontmen maybe. Israel will be sacrificed to win back Arab support and another few decades of economic boom, unless Iran does it first and swings the power centre Eastwards.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:56
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,631
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
US is not blindsided, only the politcal frontmen maybe. Israel will be sacrificed to win back Arab support and another few decades of economic boom, unless Iran does it first and swings the power centre Eastwards.
Your ignorance, Sir, is monumental...
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:58
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,631
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Mindboggling ... Obama is still encouraging Mubarak to 'begin the transition' .. Maybe if he watched CNN, he might learn that Mubarak is on his way out already!
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11.02.2011, 00:35
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,606
Groaned at 571 Times in 484 Posts
Thanked 20,877 Times in 10,964 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
Mindboggling ... Obama is still encouraging Mubarak to 'begin the transition' .. Maybe if he watched CNN, he might learn that Mubarak is on his way out already!
Looks like nobody informed Mubarak that he is on the way out......
Leaves a bit of a gap between hopes & reality.

Obama is smarter than you are!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 11.02.2011, 02:30
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,232
Groaned at 351 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 23,444 Times in 8,473 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
Mindboggling ... Obama is still encouraging Mubarak to 'begin the transition' .. Maybe if he watched CNN, he might learn that Mubarak is on his way out already!
What's so mind boggling - people just need to read the articles that do not make it to the front page: The Saudi king had several calls with Obama and made it very clear that he considers the Egyptian president a personal and close friend. He apparently reminded Obama quite angrily and directly that if Egypt goes down Saudi Arabia would be the only large US friendly Arab state left and that it is his personal wish that Mubarak can leave "in dignity". He even threaten that he would use his money to counter any form of US pressure or sanctions - if the US would stop the military aid, the Saudis would pay it! In short: Obama should better think twice...

However, I do not see why everyone is discussing politics in this thread - the reason for the riots in the Arab world are far simpler: People do not suddenly realize that they are living in a dictatorship after many decades. In the last months did their situation simply get so much worse that they cannot take it anymore. What is happening? Food prices are exploding in the last months, here is a chart. This has little to do with politicians or even supply and demand. It has a lot to do with the interest rates being low and capital cheap and available - many speculators made and are currently making a fortune through futures on food... It happened before in 2008 but then the "financial crisis" came which stopped the availability of capital for a moment.

The large scale speculations are artificially driving up the prices to a level where people in developing countries are not able to afford their basics anymore. Probably the worst part of a globalized market and I pesonally believe that at least when it comes to some basics we should maybe globally outlaw speculations on food. There is enough other stuff people can trade in and bet on... we don't really need to make people starve if there is actually sufficient supply.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 11.02.2011, 04:50
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
What's so mind boggling - people just need to read the articles that do not make it to the front page: The Saudi king had several calls with Obama and made it very clear that he considers the Egyptian president a personal and close friend. He apparently reminded Obama quite angrily and directly that if Egypt goes down Saudi Arabia would be the only large US friendly Arab state left and that it is his personal wish that Mubarak can leave "in dignity". He even threaten that he would use his money to counter any form of US pressure or sanctions - if the US would stop the military aid, the Saudis would pay it! In short: Obama should better think twice...

However, I do not see why everyone is discussing politics in this thread - the reason for the riots in the Arab world are far simpler: People do not suddenly realize that they are living in a dictatorship after many decades. In the last months did their situation simply get so much worse that they cannot take it anymore. What is happening? Food prices are exploding in the last months, here is a chart. This has little to do with politicians or even supply and demand. It has a lot to do with the interest rates being low and capital cheap and available - many speculators made and are currently making a fortune through futures on food... It happened before in 2008 but then the "financial crisis" came which stopped the availability of capital for a moment.

The large scale speculations are artificially driving up the prices to a level where people in developing countries are not able to afford their basics anymore. Probably the worst part of a globalized market and I pesonally believe that at least when it comes to some basics we should maybe globally outlaw speculations on food. There is enough other stuff people can trade in and bet on... we don't really need to make people starve if there is actually sufficient supply.
This is why I was trying to track the $60Billion arms deal. It should have been a done deal in October, but it seems that it is being held up, for whatever reason- just minor technicalities. Saudi Arabia could get their hardware from the UK (and the British Government would love that) but the truth is that in the arms business, in terms of quality or quantity, they can't compete with the US. So Saudi Arabia can stir up their Republican lobbyists in the US, but Obama still holds that trump card doesn't he? What do you think?

Saudi Arabia has its own problems and if the dominoes start to fall they might be next.

Obama is about to start investing heavily in rail (a bit late) but it will help our dependence on oil. Plus the US has its own oil. It doesn't cost me 80 pounds sterling to fill up my gas tank like it does in the UK.

Perhaps one the biggest concerns just like the Straits of Hormuz is the Suez Canal.
I am guessing that Obama is in discussion with the Egyptian military. Perhaps some of that military aid should be put to use in providing the generals with a generous early retirement package to repay them for the their loyalty to the US.
Plus if Saudi Arabia doesn't want to be loyal then we have $60 Billion worth of toys for the new generals. But where will Muburak flee to then?

So near ad yet so far:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisr...udi-Arms-Deal/
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11.02.2011, 05:14
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

It seems as if closure of the Suez Canal will not affect the US- it may affect Israel. At least that's what Israel claims. It is I believe a trade route for Asia to Europe.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:46
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,606
Groaned at 571 Times in 484 Posts
Thanked 20,877 Times in 10,964 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
What's so mind boggling - people just need to read the articles that do not make it to the front page: The Saudi king had several calls with Obama and made it very clear that he considers the Egyptian president a personal and close friend. He apparently reminded Obama quite angrily and directly that if Egypt goes down Saudi Arabia would be the only large US friendly Arab state left and that it is his personal wish that Mubarak can leave "in dignity". He even threaten that he would use his money to counter any form of US pressure or sanctions - if the US would stop the military aid, the Saudis would pay it! In short: Obama should better think twice...

However, I do not see why everyone is discussing politics in this thread - the reason for the riots in the Arab world are far simpler: People do not suddenly realize that they are living in a dictatorship after many decades. In the last months did their situation simply get so much worse that they cannot take it anymore. What is happening? Food prices are exploding in the last months, here is a chart. This has little to do with politicians or even supply and demand. It has a lot to do with the interest rates being low and capital cheap and available - many speculators made and are currently making a fortune through futures on food... It happened before in 2008 but then the "financial crisis" came which stopped the availability of capital for a moment.

The large scale speculations are artificially driving up the prices to a level where people in developing countries are not able to afford their basics anymore. Probably the worst part of a globalized market and I pesonally believe that at least when it comes to some basics we should maybe globally outlaw speculations on food. There is enough other stuff people can trade in and bet on... we don't really need to make people starve if there is actually sufficient supply.
About "if the US would stop the military aid, the Saudis would pay it!"

If I were Obama I would take that offer; sounds like win/win.

For food prices there are more factors than speculation. Some are;
  • poor harvest in China, freezing conditiosn in USA, last years fires in Russia
  • increasing use of land for bio-fuels instead of food crops
  • Financial crisis making it difficult for farmers to buy seeds, etc. in many countries (majority of farmers worldwide are in "poor" countries & have little surplus to sell; subsistence farming)
  • Opposition to new technologies like GM seeds & chemicals
  • increasing world population
  • Some countries limiting exports
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 11.02.2011, 12:17
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,232
Groaned at 351 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 23,444 Times in 8,473 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post

For food prices there are more factors than speculation. Some are;
  • poor harvest in China, freezing conditiosn in USA, last years fires in Russia
  • increasing use of land for bio-fuels instead of food crops
  • Financial crisis making it difficult for farmers to buy seeds, etc. in many countries (majority of farmers worldwide are in "poor" countries & have little surplus to sell; subsistence farming)
  • Opposition to new technologies like GM seeds & chemicals
  • increasing world population
  • Some countries limiting exports
I agree to all factors - excpet the opposition to GM technology, you can produce food very well without it..

Except of the poor harvests, none of those factors has a short term impact. They are all slow developments that cannot at all explain why prices suddenly jump up 50%. It is not a secret and fully legal to speculate on food. And it is not a secret either that the speculations are currently on a very high level. It is a topic in Germany as some minister wants to ban speculations on specific staple foods. Therefore the media is full of it and I have seen some interviews on ARD lately with traders talking openly on the futures they trade in Chicago.

The speculation on food was a big topic just before the banking crisis and nothing has changed. Just as the US is depending on oil imports are countries like Egypt depending on grain imports... so speculations on grain harms egypt while another oil crisis would hurt the US.

An that is the exact reason why pissing off the Saudi king is not a win-win for Obama...
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 11.02.2011, 12:30
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,712
Groaned at 118 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 2,140 Times in 942 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

I am not a fan of US policy but to say they were blindsided is a bit unfair. The US wouldn't have to get involved at all if the countries in the area had the balls to sit down and talk things through in an adult way.

This is not a US problem, but they probably haven't helped by their actions of the last 30 years or so. The one thing for sure is that it is unlikely to end happily ever after, but let's just hope it does.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 11.02.2011, 12:55
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,748
Groaned at 284 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 18,639 Times in 7,827 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again

Quote:
View Post
I agree to all factors - excpet the opposition to GM technology, you can produce food very well without it..

Except of the poor harvests, none of those factors has a short term impact. They are all slow developments that cannot at all explain why prices suddenly jump up 50%. It is not a secret and fully legal to speculate on food. And it is not a secret either that the speculations are currently on a very high level. It is a topic in Germany as some minister wants to ban speculations on specific staple foods. Therefore the media is full of it and I have seen some interviews on ARD lately with traders talking openly on the futures they trade in Chicago.

The speculation on food was a big topic just before the banking crisis and nothing has changed. Just as the US is depending on oil imports are countries like Egypt depending on grain imports... so speculations on grain harms egypt while another oil crisis would hurt the US.

An that is the exact reason why pissing off the Saudi king is not a win-win for Obama...
i don't think there's anything wrong in speculating in agricultural commodities. i looked into it myself but decided against it (bad decision in retrospect).

as i looked at it, there were several factors to favour investing:

- growing world population yet not expanding production to meet this demand
- wealtheir people in india and china especially - resulting in more meat consumption which requires a lot more feedstock production
- devaluation of major currencies (USD, Sterling) and commodities in general would be a good hedge
- misguided use of bio-fuels which further reduce food production

you also need to remember that when a hedge fund buys billions in grain or suger, they don't consume this food themselves, the food is still there and exists.

also, for everyone betting on higher food prices, there is someone betting on lower food prices.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Middle-aged men with ponytails PaddyG Complaints corner 151 05.03.2020 17:17
middle age / middle of europe/ middle of autumn starshine Daily life 6 14.10.2010 15:24
Importing car from Middle East MaKoMaN Transportation/driving 4 07.10.2007 23:52


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0