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-   -   US blindsided by events in the middle east again (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/105253-us-blindsided-events-middle-east-again.html)

dino 31.01.2011 15:21

US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Isn't it amazing that the world's only remaining superpower consistently bumbles from one mishap to another, particularly in the middle east? How can they spend tens of billions on surveillance, espionage and intelligence, and still not have a clue about what's about to hit them?

The US was caught napping when the Iranian revolution erupted in 1979. Then they hastily washed their hands off the Shah, and that only made all their other allies in the region wary of US's friendship. They thought they had a handle on Pakistan, but had no clue that it was selling nuclear technology on the black market. They were sure that Saddam had WMD, but haven't yet located one beaker full of chemicals....

Now when everyone watching CNN can tell that Mubarak is probably packing his bags right now, the US is still mouthing platitudes about restraint and caution. Next thing there will be a Mullacracy in Cairo, and every political commentator will be wondering how come they never saw it coming? After all they have had 30 years to figure out what they were going to do after Mubarak's time ran out!

amogles 31.01.2011 15:27

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1087405)
Isn't it amazing that the world's only remaining superpower consistently bumbles from one mishap to another, particularly in the middle east? How can they spend tens of billions on surveillance, espionage and intelligence, and still not have a clue about what's about to hit them?

The US was caught napping when the Iranian revolution erupted in 1979. Then they hastily washed their hands off the Shah, and that only made all their other allies in the region wary of US's friendship. They thought they had a handle on Pakistan, but had no clue that it was selling nuclear technology on the black market. They were sure that Saddam had WMD, but haven't yet located one beaker full of chemicals....

Now when everyone watching CNN can tell that Mubarak is probably packing his bags right now, the US is still mouthing platitudes about restraint and caution. Next thing there will be a Mullacracy in Cairo, and every political commentator will be wondering how come they never saw it coming? After all they have had 30 years to figure out what they were going to do after Mubarak's time ran out!

Let's blame the French, or failing that the Illuminati. :)

lost_inbroad 31.01.2011 15:30

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1087405)
Isn't it amazing that the world's only remaining superpower consistently bumbles from one mishap to another, particularly in the middle east? How can they spend tens of billions on surveillance, espionage and intelligence, and still not have a clue about what's about to hit them?

The US was caught napping when the Iranian revolution erupted in 1979. Then they hastily washed their hands off the Shah, and that only made all their other allies in the region wary of US's friendship. They thought they had a handle on Pakistan, but had no clue that it was selling nuclear technology on the black market. They were sure that Saddam had WMD, but haven't yet located one beaker full of chemicals....

Now when everyone watching CNN can tell that Mubarak is probably packing his bags right now, the US is still mouthing platitudes about restraint and caution. Next thing there will be a Mullacracy in Cairo, and every political commentator will be wondering how come they never saw it coming? After all they have had 30 years to figure out what they were going to do after Mubarak's time ran out!

..read "confessions of an economic hit man".

HollidayG 31.01.2011 16:21

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1087405)
Isn't it amazing that the world's only remaining superpower consistently bumbles from one mishap to another, particularly in the middle east? How can they spend tens of billions on surveillance, espionage and intelligence, and still not have a clue about what's about to hit them?

The US was caught napping when the Iranian revolution erupted in 1979. Then they hastily washed their hands off the Shah, and that only made all their other allies in the region wary of US's friendship. They thought they had a handle on Pakistan, but had no clue that it was selling nuclear technology on the black market. They were sure that Saddam had WMD, but haven't yet located one beaker full of chemicals....

Now when everyone watching CNN can tell that Mubarak is probably packing his bags right now, the US is still mouthing platitudes about restraint and caution. Next thing there will be a Mullacracy in Cairo, and every political commentator will be wondering how come they never saw it coming? After all they have had 30 years to figure out what they were going to do after Mubarak's time ran out!

The whole Middle East is an absolute powder keg waiting to go off. If enough radicals get involved in Egyptian politics, there will be WWIII with
Israel.

So far, the US is the only country that has brought the Israelis and the Palestinians to the negotiating table.

xkcd 31.01.2011 17:43

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1087405)
Isn't it amazing that the world's only remaining superpower consistently bumbles from one mishap to another, particularly in the middle east? How can they spend tens of billions on surveillance, espionage and intelligence, and still not have a clue about what's about to hit them?

Googling any map of the ME landscape would have avoided this blunder:
http://hypervocal.com/news/2011/fox-...-saudi-arabia/

MrVertigo 31.01.2011 17:57

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HollidayG (Post 1087533)
(...)
So far, the US is the only country that has brought the Israelis and the Palestinians to the negotiating table.

It's nice to sit together at a table, but when there is nothing to eat I don't see the benefit. Waiter is doing a poor job.

Uncle GroOve 31.01.2011 18:02

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HollidayG (Post 1087533)
The whole Middle East is an absolute powder keg waiting to go off. If enough radicals get involved in Egyptian politics, there will be WWIII with
Israel.

So far, the US is the only country that has brought the Israelis and the Palestinians to the negotiating table.

ElBaradei IMHO is the West's best bet to bring order to the region.
There seems to be a familiar play being rerun here, this time with different actors... remember Iran when Khomeini flew in from Paris?
here we have another majr ME nation imploding with someone flying in from outside, who is respected (apparently) by all parties involved and who could possibly create the nucleus of a new era for the country.

But the way I see it is that Al Quaeda et al probably don't like the perspective of a scientist, who has worked in and liked by the West (i.e. a moderate), defusing some very interesting tension which the extremists look forward to exploit....

Hence I have the horrible feeling that he'll represent a very juicy target for the bad ones... He is a courageous man - I really wish that he can plant some seeds of progress and peace in the region...

Paul

Assassin 31.01.2011 18:05

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HollidayG (Post 1087533)
So far, the US is the only country that has brought the Israelis and the Palestinians to the negotiating table.

The correct sentence should have read: "So far, the US has been the only country rich enough to forward substantial amounts of aid and military assistance to potential Israeli foes to try and keep the balance of power equal".

Egypt is the second largest recipient of military aid in the Middle East, but in real terms probably the largest "real customer" as Israel is treated like the 51st state when it comes to receiving all the latest gear that Uncle Sam has on offer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-military.html

dino 31.01.2011 18:28

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Oh wait... the gentle giant stirs

"The protests prompted the White House to say that it will put U.S. aid to Egypt under review, ramping up pressure on Mubarak to carry out political and economic reforms."

WTF???????

HollidayG 31.01.2011 18:35

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 1087691)
It's nice to sit together at a table, but when there is nothing to eat I don't see the benefit. Waiter is doing a poor job.

What has anyone else done? NOTHING

Peg A 31.01.2011 18:46

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1087736)
Oh wait... the gentle giant stirs

"The protests prompted the White House to say that it will put U.S. aid to Egypt under review, ramping up pressure on Mubarak to carry out political and economic reforms."

WTF???????


So, the country where you're from has millions and millions more people than the US, surely out of that population there is someone who can fly off to other countries on diplomatic missions of peace, even though most of the rest of the world will say that it's none of their business?

FCBarca 31.01.2011 19:04

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
The bumbling of the Middle East policy for the US is not by accident, but by design...We all know it's about oil and about Israel...The US foreign policy in the region isn't interested in human rights or what is equitable let alone legal...Just to maintain the occupation and insure the oil flows (At a rate the US dictates)

That part is nothing new, it's been like this for decades...The part that also is not new but defies logic is to constantly prop up repressive regimes and somehow be surprised when they implode (Shah, Saddam, Mubarak etc.)

A change, no not the Obama one, is needed in the Middle East...A change that will be good for the region and good for the planet - which equates to little to no US involvement

FCBarca 31.01.2011 19:05

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HollidayG (Post 1087533)
So far, the US is the only country that has brought the Israelis and the Palestinians to the negotiating table.

That's about the worst interpretation of what the US' role has been for decades wrt Palestine

MrVertigo 31.01.2011 19:10

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HollidayG (Post 1087744)
What has anyone else done? NOTHING

I have some understanding for your US-centric view of the world, but that does not allow you to despise other initiatives by other countries or even 3rd party organizations.

HollidayG 31.01.2011 19:15

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 1087781)
I have some understanding for your US-centric view of the world, but that does not allow you to despise other initiatives by other countries or even 3rd party organizations.


No one ever said despise. No other country has brought negotiators to the tables.

scrambled 31.01.2011 20:46

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
i find it funny how europeans love to criticize the US, all the while benefiting from its foreign policy without incurring a fair share of the risk or cost. remember that after all, the interests of the US and Europe are aligned, especially when it comes to market access and fighting islamic radicalism. i dont have to remind you that the US still has two oceans to buffer it from terrorism while we here in europe have this threat on our doorstep.

FCBarca 31.01.2011 20:49

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrambled (Post 1087868)
i find it funny how europeans love to criticize the US, all the while benefiting from its foreign policy without incurring a fair share of the risk or cost. remember that after all, the interests of the US and Europe are aligned, especially when it comes to market access and fighting islamic radicalism. i dont have to remind you that the US still has two oceans to buffer it from terrorism while we here in europe have this threat on our doorstep.

It's more amusing for both expats and Europeans that Americans continue to moan about how everyone is against them while they sheepishly allow their governement to prop up dictatorships around the globe...You reap what you sow so this whole 'terrorist' mantra nonsense is your own doing

colinwheeler 31.01.2011 20:53

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HollidayG (Post 1087533)
So far, the US is the only country that has brought the Israelis and the Palestinians to the negotiating table.

Perhaps it would be better if you had a look into who all is trying to create peace between these two nations...it is definitly more than just the U.S.A.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_p...inian_conflict

scrambled 31.01.2011 21:04

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FCBarca (Post 1087871)
It's more amusing for both expats and Europeans that Americans continue to moan about how everyone is against them while they sheepishly allow their governement to prop up dictatorships around the globe...You reap what you sow so this whole 'terrorist' mantra nonsense is your own doing

this is your most typical form of european arrogance on display here. sorry chap but you're not above the dirt pile in this situation and cant turn your nose up and dismiss the efforts spearheaded by the US to take the offensive against radicalism. i shouldn't have to, but i will remind you that since 9/11, no successful attacks on US soil. however since then, we've had spain, london, mumbai, russia, etc. and all the danish newspaper stuff. who has been taking the fight to afghanistan and south waziristan, thus localizing the brunt of the violence there? what has europe been doing? we don't ask for your thanks but we also don't appreciate you spitting on our efforts.

ciao.

FCBarca 31.01.2011 21:13

Re: US blindsided by events in the middle east again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrambled (Post 1087885)
this is your most typical form of european arrogance on display here. sorry chap but you're not above the dirt pile in this situation and cant turn your nose up and dismiss the efforts spearheaded by the US to take the offensive against radicalism.

Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine etc....At the heart of the turmoil, Uncle Sam...And, yes, expats like myself and Yanks like you have bankrolled this terrorist agenda of our government...I tried to vote these war mongers out but ended up having to vote with my feet...Hello Suisse

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrambled (Post 1087885)
i shouldn't have to, but i will remind you that since 9/11, no successful attacks on US soil.

Well, gee, if that's all it's about...2-3 thousand US lives lost on 9/11 probably equates to the hundreds of thousands of lives lost in both Iraq & Afghanistan...Not to mention the million others in the Middle East :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrambled (Post 1087885)
however since then, we've had spain, london, mumbai, russia, etc. and all the danish newspaper stuff. who has been taking the fight to afghanistan and south waziristan, thus localizing the brunt of the violence there? what has europe been doing? we don't ask for your thanks but we also don't appreciate you spitting on our efforts.

ciao.

I think what's scrambled are your thoughts, particularly when it comes to what is at the root of these 'evils' that arrive at the US' doorstep...You can't summarily sweep under the rug a coup in Iran to prop up the Shah over a democratically elected leader there in Mossadeq...Can't prop up Saddam Hussein and then put him down when your dog isn't obeying you at every turn...Same applies to each & every dictatorship around the globe, but none more appalling and relevant than in the Middle East

You can keep your head in the sand and ignore these facts and claim the red, white & blue are merely being unfairly blamed because of their blue jeans & Hollywood...You won't be the first and sadly you won't be the last...Ignorance is bliss


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