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  #301  
Old 18.03.2011, 17:30
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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It seems to be far more in his favour than for the opposition. They are presumably expected to ceasefire as well? Any attempt to implement a no-fly zone would now be in breach of the UN resolution.
Would only be a breach if he really does implement the ceasefire & the UN people formally accept his ceasefire. I assume there would need to be a formal written agreement with a formal committee to implement a process for oversight of his ceasefire compliance & a ceasefire timetable.
Gadaffi's minister offering a ceasefire on TV has no legal value. How do we even now he is authorised to offer it?

Anyway all the reports from the region are that Gadaffi is still firing & attacking new areas - I think he forgets that there are satellites & drones all over Libya showing what is really happening
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  #302  
Old 18.03.2011, 21:41
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Following the UNSC vote, Egypt Said to Arm Libya Rebels

While i were in Egypt, specifically on Saloum borders crossing to Libya, army were actually supporting Libyan rebels by light weapons and arms within the acceptable means due to the current situation, now that UNSC voted yes, more will be provided to rebels and on much larger scale.
Compliments for those in charge in Cairo !
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  #303  
Old 18.03.2011, 21:52
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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What's going to stop Qaddafi from using his ground forces ?

The first Libyan civil war - Extended...

Wollishofener: You still didn't master Sarcasm and Multi-quote. shame that you added willful ignorance to the list (the current military dictator of Egypt is Tantawi - no one elected him)
To declare Field Marshal Mohammed Hussein Tantawi






" THE DICTATOR " is a clear exaggeration as he rather is the chief of a caretaker leadership. You of course may be right as for him the temptation to try to become president is obvious. Let's hope, please, that he keeps realistic. In fact, if his crew manages the change-over, he may even by democratic means and in a democratic way get the top-job.

And when looking at this picture, I cannot help but feel reminded of THIS






gentleman ! This statesman, even if never properly elected and possibly not exactly a democrat was one of the greatest statesmen ever on the planet.
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  #304  
Old 18.03.2011, 21:59
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Great. Now why doesn't the Arab League themselves take action, instead of calling Big Daddy, who they will complain about later anyway?

Big Daddy ought to charge them for it. Those things cost.
Because in practical terms, not a single Arab army has the offensive capability needed. With this statement, you will not win elections in the Arab World, but it simply is the truth. As they realized this fact and that Big Daddy was stalling, they asked NICE SMALL UNCLE to assist which Sarkopoleone Buonaparte did with gusto !

And yes, people will complain about the USA, who in case of Iraq, against the will of most there DID get up into action but in case of Libya, where their action would have had and still will have the support of most, does NOT as they have become accustomed to deal with "uncle Muammar" ! Remember old dear UNCLE JOE ?
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  #305  
Old 18.03.2011, 22:01
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Attacking Gaddafi's forces, and not simply stopping his planes from flying will require troops on the ground - which are not in the resolution.

It also means that now western forces will fight against an Arab ruler.

Likely scenario:
Gaddafi will show pictures of "his" civilians being hit by Western/rebel forces - and if there won't be any, he will "invent" them. The usual western useful idiots will do their usual "stop the war" spiel.
Sorry Sir, BUT ground forces are in the package
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  #306  
Old 18.03.2011, 22:05
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Wise move by Gaddafi - he already controls most of Libya. and now he has a UN resolution to keep him there.

He is Crazy, but not stupid.
Crazy he may be, ..... but do YOU need a map of Libya ? He basically just controls major chunks of Tripolitania but practically nothing of the Cyrenaika. Remains the mystery about who is to win the Fezzan ?
Khaddafi out of Tripoli ?
his adversaries out of Benghazi ?
or Sarkozy out of Ndjamena (Fort Lamy) ?
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  #307  
Old 18.03.2011, 22:24
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Who is better off now - Gaddafi or Mubarak ?

Sudan's genocidal dictator is also wanted by the international court, doesn't seem to bother him too much.

So now the west is stuck with supporting the weak side while Gaddafi will make lucrative deals with less scrupulous regimes.
your comparison is between an aging dictator in Libya and a former dementia-ridden slightly senile but formerly truly great leader of Egypt. Mr Mubarak had a "democracy-deficit" but in comparison with Khaddafi was a true democrat and human-rights activist

Over to General Hassan Ahmed al-Bashir of Sudan. This man is the one who sent out the Mahdi (forgot the number) and sent out OBL out of Sudan and reluctantly allowed Southern Sudan to finally get out of Sudan. The man is brutal and ruthless, but for his country possibly still the least worst option available. General Bashir is still fairly well off, physically and politically. And if he needs a Cappucino in Milano, his experts will make out a nice passport for him, declaring him to be an Egyptian businessman from Aswan and everything is settled. He may there even meet the "Nuovo Duce" who then will, in court, declare that he arranged two girl-escorts for a media tycoon from Egypt
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  #308  
Old 18.03.2011, 22:27
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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When did that ever happen ?

In the mean time - Gaddafi still rules Libya and is far from exhausting his hand.

Let's see if the opposition will manage to run a decent state. not holding my breath there either.
No, he is not.
A) he lost the Cyrenaika
B) he had to give weapons and powers to his generals

And realistically, point B) for him is worse
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  #309  
Old 18.03.2011, 23:22
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Because in practical terms, not a single Arab army has the offensive capability needed. With this statement, you will not win elections in the Arab World, but it simply is the truth. As they realized this fact and that Big Daddy was stalling, they asked NICE SMALL UNCLE to assist which Sarkopoleone Buonaparte did with gusto !

And yes, people will complain about the USA, who in case of Iraq, against the will of most there DID get up into action but in case of Libya, where their action would have had and still will have the support of most, does NOT as they have become accustomed to deal with "uncle Muammar" ! Remember old dear UNCLE JOE ?
Arab League is meant to be a coalition of Arab countries. Between Egypt, SA, and Syria, they have more than enough capability. What they lack is true political will, or balls, or backbone as some call it.

I would insist a clause in the resolution that should western states take these on, the Arabs are not to cry and whine about it afterwards. "Death to the West" my ass. I'd say we start chanting "Balls and Backbones to the Arab states".
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  #310  
Old 18.03.2011, 23:37
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"



It isn't as if we don't get anything out of these 'ungrateful' oil countries.
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  #311  
Old 18.03.2011, 23:40
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

It isn't as if they haven't gotten paid already. Its called business and trade, a mark of civilized societies.
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  #312  
Old 18.03.2011, 23:46
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Sorry Sir, BUT ground forces are in the package
True; the only restriction is on "occupying forces".
Whatever that means.
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  #313  
Old 19.03.2011, 00:19
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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It isn't as if they haven't gotten paid already. Its called business and trade, a mark of civilized societies.
The oil industry is a civilized industry? Have you read the prize? How did we repay Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, the Amazon, Alaska Inuits, even here in the US? Civilized?

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  #314  
Old 19.03.2011, 00:32
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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The oil industry is a civilized industry? Have you read the prize? How did we repay Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, the Amazon, Alaska Inuits, even here in the US? Civilized?
And when you wake up late tomorrow morning because there was no electricity to power your alarm, your lights & heating; who do you blame?

About " How did we repay Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, the Amazon, Alaska Inuits".
If you check you will find the leaders of these countries have multi - billions tucked away. If they did not share this revenue with their people then who is to blame? The oil industry? I do not think so?
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Old 19.03.2011, 01:09
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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And when you wake up late tomorrow morning because there was no electricity to power your alarm, your lights & heating; who do you blame?

About " How did we repay Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, the Amazon, Alaska Inuits".
If you check you will find the leaders of these countries have multi - billions tucked away. If they did not share this revenue with their people then who is to blame? The oil industry? I do not think so?
You must all have oil stocks or stocks- boo hoo!

Who using such powers as the CIA and British foreign Service took democratic leaders out of power and supported despots that would do their bidding? Just check the history Mossadegh, House of Saud, Bush kissing the Saudi leader, Blair bowing down to them.

Why did the Germans abstain from the vote?

I was brought up not to rely heavily on fossil fuels, If I wake up tomorrow and then is no power ( that happens a lot in Upstate NY) then I know how to take care of myself. I would blame over dependency and greed. My husband- well that's different, he will scream blue murder- but then he's an oil guy and loves his toys.
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  #316  
Old 19.03.2011, 16:05
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Sarkozy has confirmed that French fighter planes are already enforcing the no-fly zone over Libya, particularly Benghazi.
Probably not one of Gadaffi's smartest moves to personally insult Sarkozy...

Hope the French fighter planes can do some good over there.
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  #317  
Old 19.03.2011, 17:19
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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You must all have oil stocks or stocks- boo hoo!

Who using such powers as the CIA and British foreign Service took democratic leaders out of power and supported despots that would do their bidding? Just check the history Mossadegh, House of Saud, Bush kissing the Saudi leader, Blair bowing down to them.

Why did the Germans abstain from the vote?

I was brought up not to rely heavily on fossil fuels, If I wake up tomorrow and then is no power ( that happens a lot in Upstate NY) then I know how to take care of myself. I would blame over dependency and greed. My husband- well that's different, he will scream blue murder- but then he's an oil guy and loves his toys.
About "Why did the Germans abstain from the vote?"

Germany, which voted against the UN resolution on military action, is making its air bases available to the coalition and stepping up its support of Nato operations in Afghanistan to allow allies to dedicate resources to Libyan action.
Angela Merkel insisted in a briefing after the meeting that there was no international divison now the resolution had been passed.
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  #318  
Old 19.03.2011, 17:24
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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About "Why did the Germans abstain from the vote?"

.
It struck me that the UN vote was pretty much along the lines of who gets oil from Lybia and who doesn't. I'm not fond of Obama's do nuthin approach, but I do like his stance that our sole purpose in participation is to spare Lybian lives, and that no ground forces will be committed.
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  #319  
Old 19.03.2011, 17:51
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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It struck me that the UN vote was pretty much along the lines of who gets oil from Lybia and who doesn't. I'm not fond of Obama's do nuthin approach, but I do like his stance that our sole purpose in participation is to spare Lybian lives, and that no ground forces will be committed.
The UN resolution says "no occupation forces" not "no ground forces" a subtle but I am sure a deliberate difference
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Old 19.03.2011, 17:56
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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The UN resolution says "no occupation forces" not "no ground forces" a subtle but I am sure a deliberate difference
Right. And the "temporary" in temporary ground forces can mean even 20 or more years.

But Obama did explicitly say no ground forces. I suppose because jet fuel is still less expensive than military bases.
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