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Old 21.03.2011, 00:16
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Facts:
1) arab league is irrelevant and does not have support of the populations seeking for freedom
2) civil war in libya will allow al-qaeda to grow in the area

Consequences:
- ignore arab league & continue bombing and get rid of Kadhaffi definitely
- install insurgents as new regime, support it with a UN-backed multi-national force (like KFOR in Kosovo) to avoid civil war & al-qaeda proliferation in the south.
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  #362  
Old 21.03.2011, 00:22
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Facts:
1) arab league is irrelevant and does not have support of the populations seeking for freedom
2) civil war in libya will allow al-qaeda to grow in the area

Consequences:
- ignore arab league & continue bombing and get rid of Kadhaffi definitely
- install insurgents as new regime, support it with a UN-backed multi-national force (like KFOR in Kosovo) to avoid civil war & al-qaeda proliferation in the south.

Oh come on. What the hell is al-qaeda but a paper tiger created for a regional agenda? It's a database table in a CIA database of certain unpleasant mujaheddins and arms smugglers. Al-qaeda does not have no real arms and legs that operate. There isn't a real organization in the form that can even come close to governing. They simply have brainwashed drones they manipulate to explode for sheer drama.
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  #363  
Old 21.03.2011, 00:22
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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- ignore arab league & continue bombing and get rid of Kadhaffi definitely
- install insurgents as new regime, support it with a UN-backed multi-national force (like KFOR in Kosovo) to avoid civil war & al-qaeda proliferation in the south.
At least you gave up pretences of supporting democracy.

And the difference to Iraq is ?
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Old 21.03.2011, 00:27
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Folks, I say don't worry about the conspiracy theorists and the criticism coming from the Arab leaders/Arab League. What's essential is the protection of the people of Benghazi and other towns that have been constantly under Gaddafi's firepower.
The people of Benghazi -who best know their situation- have been pleading for help for weeks. They are aware of Gaddafi's inhumane nature and what he is capable of doing. Moreover, Qatar & UAE are both participants.
People in Benghazi are all waving French flags as a sign of gratitude towards the coalition that thwarted on otherwise brutal attack that was underway.

I wouldn't worry about some clown tampering with MEerners emotions to secure a place in 2011's elections in Egypt. Nobody else has criticized the coalition thus far. If Amr Moussa has a problem with the bombardment of GAddafi's forces, then he should volunteer as a human shield to protest Benghazi from the tyrant's bombs...
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  #365  
Old 21.03.2011, 00:33
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Folks, I say don't worry about the conspiracy theorists and the criticism coming from the Arab leaders/Arab League. What's essential is the protection of the people of Benghazi and other towns that have been constantly under Gaddafi's firepower.
The people of Benghazi -who best know their situation- have been pleading for help for weeks. They are aware of Gaddafi's inhumane nature and what he is capable of doing. Moreover, Qatar & UAE are both participants.
People in Benghazi are all waving French flags as a sign of gratitude towards the coalition that thwarted on otherwise brutal attack that was underway.

I wouldn't worry about some clown tampering with MEerners emotions to secure a place in 2011's elections in Egypt. Nobody else has criticized the coalition thus far. If Amr Moussa has a problem with the bombardment of GAddafi's forces, then he should volunteer as a human shield to protest Benghazi from the tyrant's bombs...

Yeah, I do agree with saving people's lives. But what peeves me is that it is those same line of rhetoric that will be used later to brainwash into hostility against the West and Israel. I don't think it is harmless, rather the radical end of that have produced suicidal terrorists.
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  #366  
Old 21.03.2011, 00:48
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Yeah, I do agree with saving people's lives. But what peeves me is that it is those same line of rhetoric that will be used later to brainwash into hostility against the West and Israel. I don't think it is harmless, rather the radical end of that have produced suicidal terrorists.
I concur, but something's changed this time. The ME is one step away from real democracy; amr moussa and the like are that step. They seem to thrive on the colonial past of the West to promote their agendas. Had he been credible, he would have criticized his own president i.e dictator Mubarak -he had 30 yrs to do it -whom he befriended instead. This man is in no position to speak to us about what is right and what is wrong. The coalition's helping LIbyans and under its ranks are other Arab nations who are contributing and these are: Morocco, Qatar, Jordan, KSA and UAE.

We are witnessing the demise of the era of suicidal terrorists. The West needs to follow this path of helping democratize the ME without getting directly involved but rather thru no-fly zones if need be, freezing dictators' assets & providing moral support.

People like Amr Moussa are known for their passiveness hypocrisy. The Arab league criticized the coalition that went to rescue muslim Bosnians and Kosovars from the butcher Milosovic while clowns like Moussa were still "sceptical" of imperialistic intentions...
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  #367  
Old 21.03.2011, 00:56
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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At least you gave up pretences of supporting democracy.

And the difference to Iraq is ?
You can't have a discussion without focusing on me.
Enjoy the delusion of your truth.
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  #368  
Old 21.03.2011, 01:28
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Like I said earlier... I don't know why we should deal with this region's problems for them. They really ought to deal with their own. The only part of this I agree with is the effort to save Lybian lives. But I suppose you would hold me for some ulterior motive as well.
Because we ( the western countries with huge interests in Libya) want the oil from that country. It's that simple.

INteresting, that a few days ago, those countries were all a bit reluctant to acively get involved have now apparently changed thair minds - was it that, earlier on it was hoped that Gaddaffi would get killed by other Libyans, so the western countries would not be held responsible but once it looked as if Gaddaffi was getting the control back afterall, well.... oops, ... looks like we gotta do something here after all folks.

This afternoon, in England, I heard a short interview with an ex UK ambassador, reagarding the Libyan situation. I would be more curious to hear from the current ( until the recent exodus) one. I am also wondering why there do not seem to be any interviews with any of the expats who were living there till these last couple of weeks.
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Old 21.03.2011, 01:36
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Because we ( the western countries with huge interests in Libya) want the oil from that country. It's that simple.
Take a look at this and tell me what you think is in it for the US:







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INteresting, that a few days ago, those countries were all a bit reluctant to acively get involved have now apparently changed thair minds - was it that, earlier on it was hoped that Gaddaffi would get killed by other Libyans, so the western countries would not be held responsible but once it looked as if Gaddaffi was getting the control back afterall, well.... oops, ... looks like we gotta do something here after all folks.
It looks like Gaddaffi tried to race against International procrastination and tried to retake Benghazi. The Arab League hurried the resolution, and Hillary Clinton brokered the resolution through the UN in an expedited manner.
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  #370  
Old 21.03.2011, 01:43
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Because we ( the western countries with huge interests in Libya) want the oil from that country. It's that simple.

INteresting, that a few days ago, those countries were all a bit reluctant to acively get involved have now apparently changed thair minds - was it that, earlier on it was hoped that Gaddaffi would get killed by other Libyans, so the western countries would not be held responsible but once it looked as if Gaddaffi was getting the control back afterall, well.... oops, ... looks like we gotta do something here after all folks.

This afternoon, in England, I heard a short interview with an ex UK ambassador, reagarding the Libyan situation. I would be more curious to hear from the current ( until the recent exodus) one. I am also wondering why there do not seem to be any interviews with any of the expats who were living there till these last couple of weeks.
I don`t think so they needed time to prepare,just look at the speed they started hitting Libya after the UN Resolution
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  #371  
Old 21.03.2011, 01:55
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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At least you gave up pretences of supporting democracy.

And the difference to Iraq is ?
The big threat to Israel
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  #372  
Old 21.03.2011, 01:57
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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He is yet another shitty cleric who knows which bandwagons should be jumped on. But if he decides to lead suicide mission to kill Gaddafi - fair enough

For a moment, I believed this man was a responsible statesman. But for someone who is more intent on pointing the fingers at the US and jews, clearly he will not be concerned enough for domestic issues, and Egypt has a lot of domestic problems.

If I were Egyptian and had a son, why would I rather tell my son that his dreams of education and a professional career will have to be reconsidered because he has to focus his life on attacking jews? How is it that parents in Egypt would rather choose such a thing?
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  #373  
Old 21.03.2011, 02:00
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Even I understood what a ' no fly zone' entailed so I surely expect the hd of the Arab league to understand. If he doesn't then he shouldn't be leading the Arab League. The reason Obama got involved wasn't so much because of oil, in fact the oil situation could get really bad. Ghaddafi might get spiteful and blow up his own resources, that will send the markets reeling. And we are supporting the rebels, but something tells me that they are not like the Egyptian rebels,remember we said of the Taliban that they can't be all that bad. The reason that Obama decided to go was the possibility of genocide. I am sure that Clinton whispered in his ear- think of your legacy- can you sleep at night with a 'Rwanda' on your conscience.
As for the Arab world, there are rumours that Ghaddafi has possibly killed thousands. The US killed 50, all the casualties that I have seen on TV so far are men of fighting age. If the US do their best to avert civilian casualties and the Arab league condemns these attack then the US has the right to decline next time these countries ask for help.
We have our own critics to keep an eye on things in the US (like Kucinich), whom it makes sense to listen to. Kucinich say that war from the air is still war, and Obama unilaterally went to war without consulting Congress, possibly an impeachable offense. I am not sure what Kucinich means by Unilateral, Obama made sure that this was voted for by the UN. Does Kucinich mean unilateral by not getting Congress' support? Does the UN vote override the US constitution? I don't think so. But I do think that saying he should have got the support is a bit of a lame duck
I am sure that if Obama had the time to go to Congress he would have got the support. A majority of Republicans and quite a few Democrats are wishing that he did it earlier. I don't think Kucinich will get much support on this.
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Old 21.03.2011, 02:06
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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For a moment, I believed this man was a responsible statesman. But for someone who is more intent on pointing the fingers at the US and jews, clearly he will not be concerned enough for domestic issues, and Egypt has a lot of domestic problems.

If I were Egyptian and had a son, why would I rather tell my son that his dreams of education and a professional career will have to be reconsidered because he has to focus his life on attacking jews? How is it that parents in Egypt would rather choose such a thing?
At the end of WWII when the US asked the Saudi Leader what he thought of an Israeli state in the Palestine. He said surely it would be more justifed to have it in Germany, that may have solved a lot of problems. Anyway as from 7:20pm Happy Iranian New Year or Aide shoma Moborak
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  #375  
Old 21.03.2011, 02:15
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Even I understood what a ' no fly zone' entailed so I surely expect the hd of the Arab league to understand. If he doesn't then he shouldn't be leading the Arab League. The reason Obama got involved wasn't so much because of oil, in fact the oil situation could get really bad. Ghaddafi might get spiteful and blow up his own resources, that will send the markets reeling. And we are supporting the rebels, but something tells me that they are not like the Egyptian rebels,remember we said of the Taliban that they can't be all that bad. The reason that Obama decided to go was the possibility of genocide. I am sure that Clinton whispered in his ear- think of your legacy- can you sleep at night with a 'Rwanda' on your conscience.
As for the Arab world, there are rumours that Ghaddafi has possibly killed thousands. The US killed 50, all the casualties that I have seen on TV so far are men of fighting age. If the US do their best to avert civilian casualties and the Arab league condemns these attack then the US has the right to decline next time these countries ask for help.
We have our own critics to keep an eye on things in the US (like Kucinich), whom it makes sense to listen to. Kucinich say that war from the air is still war, and Obama unilaterally went to war without consulting Congress, possibly an impeachable offense. I am not sure what Kucinich means by Unilateral, Obama made sure that this was voted for by the UN. Does Kucinich mean unilateral by not getting Congress' support? Does the UN vote override the US constitution? I don't think so. But I do think that saying he should have got the support is a bit of a lame duck
I am sure that if Obama had the time to go to Congress he would have got the support. A majority of Republicans and quite a few Democrats are wishing that he did it earlier. I don't think Kucinich will get much support on this.
US is not at war with Libya .Enforcing a UN resolution ,thats what it`s called
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Old 21.03.2011, 02:17
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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For a moment, I believed this man was a responsible statesman. But for someone who is more intent on pointing the fingers at the US and jews, clearly he will not be concerned enough for domestic issues, and Egypt has a lot of domestic problems.

If I were Egyptian and had a son, why would I rather tell my son that his dreams of education and a professional career will have to be reconsidered because he has to focus his life on attacking jews? How is it that parents in Egypt would rather choose such a thing?
I think you answered the question yourself - It's much easier to blame foreigners for your troubles than to actaully solve them. But I believe we discussed the quality of government in Arab countries already.
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Old 21.03.2011, 02:42
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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I don`t think so they needed time to prepare,just look at the speed they started hitting Libya after the UN Resolution
This time it was no longer Sir Bush Senior or Baby-Bush, it was Nicolas Sarkopoleony who was in charge The dynamic Habsburger, at times in charge in France, is not doing things at a leisurely pace
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Old 21.03.2011, 02:52
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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This time it was no longer Sir Bush Senior or Baby-Bush, it was Nicolas Sarkopoleony who was in charge The dynamic Habsburger, at times in charge in France, is not doing things at a leisurely pace
Right you are !At some discussions I had I said it will be France which jumps on Libya first.Remember Chad a few years back
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Old 21.03.2011, 09:03
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Take a look at this and tell me what you think is in it for the US:






.
Eeer, the USA is just one country, albeit a frequently egocentric one, not "The western countries." Your graph actually supports my thoughts re the interests of western countries. My comment was based on what I observed when living in Libya, as well as what has been selectively displayed through recent media coverage.
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Old 21.03.2011, 10:48
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Yeah, I do agree with saving people's lives. But what peeves me is that it is those same line of rhetoric that will be used later to brainwash into hostility against the West and Israel. I don't think it is harmless, rather the radical end of that have produced suicidal terrorists.
So far what I have seen on different arab media is a massive critic of arab regimes by their own population. So far I haven't seen people blaming US or Israel. Of course if you take as reference the governments, they try to shift the responsibility on external reasons. I think it's time that some people in this thread stop considering the revolutions taking place in arab countries as an anti-US and anti-israeli tsunami. It is not.
I am also convinced that some people try to propagate fetid ideas through a seeming "critic" of arab regimes. We all know these regimes are not legit.
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