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  #461  
Old 24.03.2011, 21:15
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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True.

Thats because you only imply a lot of things without saying them
If I want not say something I say it - I'm used to living in democracies.
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  #462  
Old 25.03.2011, 01:51
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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You are joking, right?
Not at all. Progress in the countries in question in the past 3 decades, exactly when the gents reigned, was absolutely enormous. Hosni Mubarak for example would have won most of his elections, but of course not "majestically" but narrowly with some 53%. BUT with democracy in place, his party would NOT have had an overwhelming majority but a share of some 20% !

Here is a problem of the future. If some people believe that democratic governments will be more successful then the old autocrats, this of course is an error. "Great leaps forward" very simply are NOT obtainable for the treshold-countries, but only the slow march ahead.

In the 1950ies and 60ies, people in the Arab World, but also in "Black Africa" (remember Nwiah Nkwame Nkrumah or Patrice Lumumba ? ) and throughout Asia (from Iran to China) thought that with national independence achieved, HeyPresto their countries would be on the same level as those Europeans. The realisation that such things take a while longer was bitter for many, and with many I speak about hundreds of millions of people. Those people who try to cross the Mediterranean (and the Rio Grande) are just the famous "tip of the iceberg" !

Last edited by Wollishofener; 25.03.2011 at 02:30.
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  #463  
Old 25.03.2011, 02:02
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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My personal impression is that the leaders of these lands do not look at their population as people with views, desires & feelings who deserve rights, democracy & free will. They look at them more like a farmer views his animals; just provide the minimum necessary to keep them producing & out of mischief.
Just to be realistic, these leaders did not look at their population differently then most of the democratically elected chaps in Europe, as they depended on some REAL support from the base.

As wrote King Hussein bin Talal in one of his books, in reference to Egypt
"they are extremely patient folks and will accept a lot, as long as they believe the top not just working for their own best but really taking care of things, but once they feel that the leadership no longer cares about the will of the people, their wrath will swell to magnitude within a very short time .... " Interesting to see that right now, his son has to struggle with quite some discontent and will have to, most likely, change some things in a real way

Last edited by Wollishofener; 25.03.2011 at 02:34.
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  #464  
Old 25.03.2011, 02:11
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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How cunning of the Arabs to be named after a place from which they did not come from.

The arabs imposed on the conquered population their religion, culture & language - that's why the people of north Africa speak Arabic, for example.

Perhaps you are right - you need to contact the "Arab league" to change it's name to "Not really arab" league.
A) "Arabs" refers to the language
B) the culture was "done" outside of the Peninsula, in places like Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, Tunis, Algiers, Oran, Fez etc.
C) Yes, Arabic was "imposed" onto the conquered populations, this is historic truth
D) it is the ARAB League or rather "League of Arab Countries" but defintely NOT "Arabic League" or "League of Arabic Countries" ...... just a bit of a difference
E) most of the Arab World (70%) is on the African Continent, and so happily outside the Peninsula ! And less than 5% of people there are of "Arabian" origin ........ and people KNOW this exactly well. What I referred to where studies of universities in Cairo, Tunis, Algiers and Casablanca ...... not secret in any way
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  #465  
Old 25.03.2011, 02:14
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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& they forced us to take their number system
how evil to rob the Europeans of the worthy Roman system !
I mean my computer of course should now show I XIII IIL MMXI !!
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  #466  
Old 25.03.2011, 02:17
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Worse - they sold an Indian method as their own. MCMXIV curses on their heads.
Which the Indians failed to curse on their heads
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  #467  
Old 25.03.2011, 02:27
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Pashosh@ I was not making any claims with you, only enquiring, if you fail to notice the questions marks.

Source

This explains a lot of things
If you want to annoy "Pashosh", alright
BUT it does NOT explain anything ! Jews during two millenia in the Arab World were part of the main (sad and bad exceptions permitted), and overall fared far better than their cousins over in Europe, up to the nationalistic madnesses of the middle of the 20th Century (look above to the explanations given by "Pashosh")

So that it is well possible that Khaddafi has Jewish relatives. Why not.

Look at Hosni Mubarak in profile AND you will see the Hellenic side. And what ? Lots of people in the Nile Delta have Hellenic roots, and lots of Greeks have Egyptian/Arab roots. So what ?
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  #468  
Old 25.03.2011, 04:52
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Never mind 'show trials' Ghaddafi has resorted to show funerals. CNN claim that a televised funeral shiwed rows of coffins and mourners. The mourners on the footage showed only angry men and no family members. When one of the coffins was opened there was no body. In any case as far as I know Mulsims do not have coffins it would be un-Islamic. Muslims are buried in shrouds. When there is a coffin it is just for the convenience of carrying generally it is left open.

Ghaddafi's hiring of Tuareg mercenaries might backfire, they could easily change sides.

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Despite these efforts, many observers have expressed fears over a possible degeneration of the situation to the northern region of Mali and Niger. "There is fear of confusion and stigmatization of the Tuareg community. If Muammar Gaddafi falls, there’ll be nobody to serve as a buffer between the authorities and us. If states do not talk with the Tuaregs (now, editor’s note) and or take into account their demands it will be legitimate to take up arms," says Abdoulahi Attayoub, President of Temoust.
http://www.afrik-news.com/article19172.html

I like Tuareg music!



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  #469  
Old 25.03.2011, 05:01
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Need more songs!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfOO5O3Crco
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  #470  
Old 25.03.2011, 05:44
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

So the Tuaregs could carry this fighting of oppression to these countries




here's a map and a song with a bit of a camel riding rhythm


This could potentially cause some discern among the Chinese who are spreading into Chad and Sudan. It seems like TexacoChevron and Petronas of Malaysia were kicked out of Chad to make way for more lucrative Chinese oil deals. There has been at least one kidnapping of a Chinese, he was released by the Sudan rebels. The situation is complicated, It seems that deals have been done between the Chinese and Sudan rebels and perhaps even some Tuaregs rebels in Chad in exchange for arms. Elsewhere though there is this ( below) concerning the mining of uranium deal, on land that beings to the Tuaregs and which they claim is illegal.

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Last month Nigerien workers – many of whom are Tuareg – denounced in a written statement conditions at SOMINA, claiming it resembled “a Chinese colony.” Nigerien laborers sleep in dorms, separately from Chinese workers. The rooms are located in illegal proximity to open pit uranium mines, and the Nigeriens suffer chronic diarrhea on account of an unsanitary water supply, the document charged. Trouble at the mine has led Azalik to be referred to throughout northern Niger as “Guantanamo.”
Despite poor conditions, the mine offers a coveted chance to work. But further frustrating locals, SOMINA employs hundreds of Chinese nationals and recruits ethnically Hausa workers from the south despite widespread poverty and unemployment among the local Tuaregs.
[...]
Chinese mining executives refuse invitations from local elected officials to discuss improving conditions…
“They say they don’t have to answer to us because they have direct communication with the central government,” adds Mohamed Mamane Illo, a former Tuareg rebel and elected councilor of Ingall.
http://sahelblog.wordpress.com/2010/...against-china/

So it is perhaps not surprising that the Chinese did not support the UN vote. There's no predicting the outcome of a revolution. Perhaps the US should look at arming the Tuaregs, but that may be creating a rod for their own back.

Anyway those are my mad ramblings- just an aspect that interested me.
Aren't Tuaregs beautiful looking people?
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  #471  
Old 25.03.2011, 17:31
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Take the Pashosh v Wollishofner " I'll name that dictator in 2" quiz

http://www.chacha.com/topic/middle-e...-that-dictator




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  #472  
Old 26.03.2011, 17:46
hoppy
 
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

si th UN is considering arming the rebels.

And the real winner of all this is?........CHINA

We live in interesting times- fascinating stuff huh?

I am imagining US and China battling it out in darkest Africa

An interesting article:

Quote:
The Middle East Crisis Has Just Begun

For the U.S., democracy's fate in the region matters much less than the struggle between the Saudis and Iran
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...399053176.html

Ghaddafis involvement with the Tuaregs

Conclusion
There is no doubt that Gaddhafi has his finger in many African pies and has pursued his aggressive Pan-African foreign policy with some vigour. If his demise happens, there could well be a knock-on effect and some destabilisation.

Tuesday Mar 15 2011

http://www.bcafrica.co.uk/blog/libya...lvement-africa

I don't think that China will be happy if the UN arms Tuaregs. but China are even less happy about the vulture-fund battles now playing out in Hong Kong:

Quote:
FG Hemisphere specializes in purchasing the debt of impoverished nations at bargain prices and then pursuing payment in courts around the world, as it has done in the Congo case. In Hong Kong, it is claiming a share of the $350 million in entry fees that China Railway owes for mining rights in Congo, the third-largest country in Africa.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_B.../MC25Cb01.html

Last edited by hoppy; 26.03.2011 at 18:22.
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  #473  
Old 26.03.2011, 19:04
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

I do not see the UN bombing Iran either but the leadership there & in SA must be looking at the role of some of the military in Egypt, Libya & Yemen in supporting the anti-government people & wondering how much they could rely on their military.

Also the countries that spend a lot of money supporting in terrorist groups in other countries to support their territorial ambitions while keeping their own population in poor conditions must realise they are generating an unstable situation at home.

We live in interesting times.
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  #474  
Old 31.03.2011, 00:18
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Quote "The Foreign Office said Libya foreign minister Musa Kusa had arrived on a plane from Tunisia and was "no longer willing" to represent the dictator's regime."

Interesting times.....
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  #475  
Old 31.03.2011, 05:18
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Quote "The Foreign Office said Libya foreign minister Musa Kusa had arrived on a plane from Tunisia and was "no longer willing" to represent the dictator's regime."

Interesting times.....
Lots of intelligence information I think he has been paid off- deals done in Tunisia- his bank accounts intact.

Quote:
head of the Libyan intelligence agency from 1994 to 2009....

After departing Tripoli by car and arriving in Tunis, Tunisia, on 28 March 2011, via the Ras Jdir border crossing, a Tunisian Government spokesman via Tunis Afrique Presse stated that Kussa had arrived on a "private visit."[10] On 30 March 2011, he departed from Djerba on a Swiss-registered private jet,[11] arriving at Farnborough Airfield, England, according to Libyan sources on a diplomatic mission.[12] The Foreign and Commonwealth Office later released an official press statement, stating that Mussa no longer wished to represent the Libyan government and intended to resign,[1][3][13] unhappy with Libyan Army attacks on civilians.
Wikipedia
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  #476  
Old 31.03.2011, 10:39
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Quote "The Foreign Office said Libya foreign minister Musa Kusa had arrived on a plane from Tunisia and was "no longer willing" to represent the dictator's regime."

Interesting times.....
Rarely the is phrase "Rats fleeing a sinking ship" so accurate.
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  #477  
Old 31.03.2011, 17:00
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Lots of intelligence information I think he has been paid off- deals done in Tunisia- his bank accounts intact.

Wikipedia
Probably cheaper than sending a cruise missile
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  #478  
Old 07.04.2011, 20:46
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

More rats leaving the sinking ship.....

Omar Fathi bin Shatwan libya's former energy minister has fled to Europe, and says that several other key political figures also want to defect.
He said members of Muammar Gaddafi's inner circle also wanted to leave Libya, but feared for their lives.
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  #479  
Old 15.04.2011, 21:11
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

today's newspaper
"We have done enough," said Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister today. "An engagement that goes beyond our current commitment would not make sense."
Mr Berlusconi was speaking after it emerged that ENI, the Italian oil company, was preparing to ship oil from Gaddafi-controlled terminals for the first time since air strikes began."

So long as the oil flows who cares about a few thousand civilian deaths.....
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  #480  
Old 20.04.2011, 22:14
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

British American journo Tim Hetherington is killed.

More

http://www.timhetherington.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hetherington
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