Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath" - Page 27

Wollishofener · #**521** 12.06.2011, 13:50

	Quote:	miniMia
	It's a sad & disgusting reality. Someone needs to protest and get the Hague involved. PS, smiley faces on a topic like this seem kind of icky.

I do not see any reason NOT to use smily faces in regard to Arab politics, as such is only bearable with some humour

Pashosh · #**522** 29.06.2011, 21:03

At least the french are dropping pretences: they are arming the rebels.

This "war by comittee" has dragged on for too long - and the U.N resolutions are slowing the war effort.

#**523** 29.06.2011, 21:55

	Quote:	Pashosh
	At least the french are dropping pretences: they are arming the rebels. This "war by comittee" has dragged on for too long - and the U.N resolutions are slowing the war effort.

Not sure where I posted it before-can't find it on this thread, but it was a letter from the rebels to the French offering a percent of oil profits if they supported the rebels. They are carving up the oil deals already. I am sure that Qatar was just a deal-broker- an Arab face of Western colonialism

#**524** 29.06.2011, 22:17

Found it! I had posted it in the Syria thread- written by Israel Shamir. I also mentioned (I think in the Syria thread) the role of Qatar and I was trying to work out their relationship with China- which I never could work out.

	Quote:
	This assassination attempt should open the eyes of those in Europe and the US who still believe that this war is ‘just’, or at least ‘justifiable’. The true reasons behind Western neocolonial interventions in the Middle East now stand revealed to all. One small example: the same source in Russian Intelligence also leaked a document, a letter from Libyan rebel leaders promising France 35 per cent of all Libyan oil. So much for humanitarian reasons!

http://www.counterpunch.org/shamir05052011.html

This carving up of Libya will be a catalyst fro other events in the Middle East. This time Italy is determined not to be left out, like they were with the carving up of Iran.

marton · #**525** 29.06.2011, 22:29

	Quote:	Pashosh
	At least the french are dropping pretences: they are arming the rebels. This "war by comittee" has dragged on for too long - and the U.N resolutions are slowing the war effort.

Gadaffi's own fault the French are arming the rebels - he insulted Sarkozy personally several times & the French do not take such things lightly.

Examples
"The son of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has alleged that his country helped finance Nicolas Sarkozy's 2007 presidential election campaign."
&
"In the interview, Saif al-Islam referred to Mr Sarkozy as "this clown" and said he was given assistance so that he could help the Libyan people."

Gadaffi's is lucky the French did not go nuclear.

marton · #**526** 29.06.2011, 22:30

	Quote:	hoppy
	Found it! I had posted it in the Syria thread- written by Israel Shamir. I also mentioned (I think in the Syria thread) the role of Qatar and I was trying to work out their relationship with China- which I never could work out. http://www.counterpunch.org/shamir05052011.html This carving up of Libya will be a catalyst fro other events in the Middle East. This time Italy is determined not to be left out, like they were with the carving up of Iran.

About "This time Italy is determined not to be left out, like they were with the carving up of Iran"

Iran? When was that then?

Wollishofener · #**527** 29.06.2011, 22:46

	Quote:	hoppy
	Not sure where I posted it before-can't find it on this thread, but it was a letter from the rebels to the French offering a percent of oil profits if they supported the rebels. They are carving up the oil deals already. I am sure that Qatar was just a deal-broker- an Arab face of Western colonialism

The leaderships of Qatar and France at a certain point realized that the line of certain colonial(ist) powers
- to ensure the political survival of Khaddafi
- to have that conflict going on endlessly
- to prevent any kind of democracy emerging in Libya
was and is against
- the interests of France
- the interests of Qatar
- the interest of the Arab World
- the interests of countries around the Mediterranean

#**528** 29.06.2011, 22:48

	Quote:	marton
	About "This time Italy is determined not to be left out, like they were with the carving up of Iran" Iran? When was that then?

After CIA coup and overthrow of Mossadegh. Apparently Italy were pretty miffed at being left out. there is some later link with the forming of OPEC but i'm getting old and a it burnt -out and can't be bothered to look it up right now.

	Quote:
	Britain responds to the nationalisation by placing a worldwide embargo on the purchase of Iranian oil and pressuring its allies to do the same. In September Britain freezes Iran's sterling assets and bans export of goods to Iran. In the US the administration refuses to lend Iran funds until the dispute is resolved, and works to ensure the oil embargo is enforced. Britain also takes its case against Iran to United Nations (UN) Security Council in New York and the International Court of Justice at The Hague in the Netherlands. Mossadegh defends Iran's action in both forums. Ultimately, Britain's legal assault fails when the Court of Justice upholds Iran's argument that the oil dispute is outside its jurisdiction and cannot be heard. Meanwhile, oil production in Iran comes to a virtual standstill and the economy begins to go into serious decline. Only Japan and Italy resist the pressure to join the embargo and continue to purchase Iranian oil. The consortium is made up of the AIOC (with a 40% holding), Royal Dutch Shell (14% holding), Standard Oil Company (New Jersey), Standard Oil of California, Socony Vacuum, the Texas Company, Gulf Oil Corporation, and the Compagnie Francaise des Petroles. At the same time, Iran agrees to pay compensation to the AIOC of US$70 million over 10 years. The AIOC is renamed the British Petroleum Company, better known these days as 'BP'.

http://www.moreorless.au.com/heroes/mossadegh.html

#**529** 29.06.2011, 23:25

Sorry- forgot to post the relevant passage from the counterpunch article linked above- here it is:

	Quote:
	This assassination attempt should open the eyes of those in Europe and the US who still believe that this war is ‘just’, or at least ‘justifiable’. The true reasons behind Western neocolonial interventions in the Middle East now stand revealed to all. One small example: the same source in Russian Intelligence also leaked a document, a letter from Libyan rebel leaders promising France 35 per cent of all Libyan oil. So much for humanitarian reasons!

I wonder what the new names will be- the Anglo Libyan Oil Company? Will the country and all it's streets and squares be renamed? Perhaps names like Sarkozy Boulevard- wouldn't the little Napoleon love that?

marton · #**530** 03.07.2011, 18:02

Getting interesting in Libya; the Sudanese army has crossed the border & siezed a Libyan town.

So pick one or more of the following;

the Sudanese are trying to steal a chunk of Libya "with oil"
the Sudanese are trying to help the rebels
the Sudanese are being paid/encouraged by Gadaffi
the Sudanese are being paid/encouraged by NATO

Discuss!!

Quote from today's newspaper
"Sudanese army seizes southern Libyan town
The Sudanese army has seized a town in southern Libya that is the gateway to oilfields crucial to rebel hopes of establishing financial independence. Officials overseeing the no-fly zone enforced by Nato over Libya said the Sudanese move north of border had not encountered resistance from troops loyal to Col Muammar Gaddafi.
Officials said control of the town of Kufra and nearby military base granted the Sudanese a key strategic foothold between the regime and the opposition Transitional National Council (TNC) which holds the eastern seaboard and a series of rebel enclaves. The Sudanese have not disrupted efforts to resume oil production on nearby southern oilfields."

Looking at the map I do not see how "control of the town of Kufra and nearby military base granted the Sudanese a key strategic foothold ....". It seems to be too far south & east & a long way from existing oil fieldsto be strategic although it is said there are big unexplored oil reserves in the area. Assuming I found the correct town

- the names are not very consistent.

#**531** 03.07.2011, 19:33

	Quote:	marton
	Getting interesting in Libya; the Sudanese army has crossed the border & siezed a Libyan town. So pick one or more of the following; the Sudanese are trying to steal a chunk of Libya "with oil" the Sudanese are trying to help the rebels the Sudanese are being paid/encouraged by Gadaffi the Sudanese are being paid/encouraged by NATO Discuss!! Quote from today's newspaper "Sudanese army seizes southern Libyan town The Sudanese army has seized a town in southern Libya that is the gateway to oilfields crucial to rebel hopes of establishing financial independence. Officials overseeing the no-fly zone enforced by Nato over Libya said the Sudanese move north of border had not encountered resistance from troops loyal to Col Muammar Gaddafi. Officials said control of the town of Kufra and nearby military base granted the Sudanese a key strategic foothold between the regime and the opposition Transitional National Council (TNC) which holds the eastern seaboard and a series of rebel enclaves. The Sudanese have not disrupted efforts to resume oil production on nearby southern oilfields." Looking at the map I do not see how "control of the town of Kufra and nearby military base granted the Sudanese a key strategic foothold ....". It seems to be too far south & east & a long way from existing oil fieldsto be strategic although it is said there are big unexplored oil reserves in the area. Assuming I found the correct town - the names are not very consistent.

Perhaps Al Bashir is after oil wherever he can find it and sees and opportunity. Now that south Sudan has succeeded he must have oil to stay in power. If he can get it, it will take the focus off him being tried for Genocide. Wasn't Sudan in control of parts of Libya when under the control of Egypt.

I don't really know. This is what my daughter tells me.

It's a bitter-sweet moment when your kids know more about politics than you do!

Anyway more here- about Omar's balancing act.

http://af.reuters.com/article/topNew...76202U20110703

Pashosh · #**532** 03.07.2011, 21:16

An Arab ruler using the weekness of another arab regime to occupy territory ? par for the course.
Maybe it took him so long because he way busy visiting China.

So much for Arab "Fratenity"...

marton · #**533** 03.07.2011, 22:03

	Quote:	Pashosh
	An Arab ruler using the weekness of another arab regime to occupy territory ? par for the course. Maybe it took him so long because he way busy visiting China. So much for Arab "Fratenity"...

Or maybe he needed to get the "yes" from the Chinese first?

marton · #**534** 03.07.2011, 22:16

	Quote:	Pashosh
	An Arab ruler using the weekness of another arab regime to occupy territory ? par for the course. Maybe it took him so long because he way busy visiting China. So much for Arab "Fratenity"...

wonder if the Egyptians will react? & how?
The Sudanese seem to be running up the Egyptian border on the Libyan side.

Pashosh · #**535** 03.07.2011, 22:23

The egyptian army is, still, stronger than the Sudanese. anyway - there in no oil near the sudan-Egypt border.

Wollishofener · #**536** 03.07.2011, 22:32

	Quote:	Pashosh
	An Arab ruler using the weekness of another arab regime to occupy territory ? par for the course. Maybe it took him so long because he way busy visiting China. So much for Arab "Fratenity"...

Let's make it clear that General Bashir is the leader who managed to get rid of both the Mahdi and Osama Bin Laden !

The man may be ruthless, he may be brutal, he may be the Rambo of Sudan, but he clearly is a very very strong personality

Wollishofener · #**537** 03.07.2011, 22:39

	Quote:	marton
	Or maybe he needed to get the "yes" from the Chinese first?

The Chinese know that Gen. Bashir is the best bet they have there ! And General Bashir a long while ago realized that Mr Khaddafi is NOT a reliable partner. He also must have realized that General Mubarak in recent years became senile. It is not that the "Commander" suddenly detected some likings for democracy, it rather is that he realized fairly early that things needed a change in Cairo and Tripoli

marton · #**538** 03.07.2011, 23:29

	Quote:	Pashosh
	The egyptian army is, still, stronger than the Sudanese. anyway - there in no oil near the sudan-Egypt border.

Look at the map, the Sudanese are in Al Kufrah (so far as I understand the newspapers)

#**539** 03.07.2011, 23:40

Israel should be happy that Arab fraternity is strong.
I wish I had read this earlier, but then what difference would it have made if I did? Chossudovsky is a bit wacky and has been criticized by Israelis e.g.his theory about HARP. All the same he is probably right, why wouldn't the East and West fight to carved up Africa? Anyway would we really prefer for it to be colonized by China?

What is the purpose of America's military roadmap?

	Quote:
	Libya is targeted because it is one among several remaining countries outside America's sphere of influence, which fail to conform to US demands. Libya is a country which has been selected as part of a military "road map" which consists of "multiple simultaneous theater wars". In the words of former NATO Commander Chief General Wesley Clark: "in the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan.... (Wesley Clark, Winning Modern Wars, p. 130).

"Operation Libya" and the Battle for Oil: Redrawing the Map of Africa

by Prof Michel Chossudovsky

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=23605

marton · #**540** 04.07.2011, 11:31

	Quote:	hoppy
	Israel should be happy that Arab fraternity is strong. I wish I had read this earlier, but then what difference would it have made if I did? Chossudovsky is a bit wacky and has been criticized by Israelis e.g.his theory about HARP. All the same he is probably right, why wouldn't the East and West fight to carved up Africa? Anyway would we really prefer for it to be colonized by China? What is the purpose of America's military roadmap? "Operation Libya" and the Battle for Oil: Redrawing the Map of Africa by Prof Michel Chossudovsky http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=23605

I could believe the Chinese are supporting the Sudanese move into Libya.
It is win/win for them. The supply of oil from South Sudan is important for them & a North/South civil war could interfere with these oil supplies.
So diverting the attention of the North army to Libya makes the supply of oil from South Sudan more secure & also adds the possibility of obtaining some Libyan oil.