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  #621  
Old 02.09.2011, 11:39
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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1. My first impression of Libya was that there were a lot of horticultural farms - plenty of fresh food including dates, citrus and other fruits. Tripoli: no huge hypermarkets, but very many small family run shops. A beautiful coastline for swimming in the Med for 9 months of the year. Lots of cars, buses and taxis. Only the very poor rode bikes in Tripoli ( apart from me) generally the people from more southern neighbouring countries. The Libyans didn't seem to be doing road or other general labouring work, nor be in domestic service - those jobs were also left to the poor people from across the border.

I was also intrigued by the number of English and American women I met, who had married locals and chosen to bring up their families there. This included a woman who chose to stay on after her partner died - she found it a comfortable place to live and work.

I could probably write a book about my time living there, but to just give a short answer to your question, based on what I saw in Tripoli and surrounding areas, no. Libya is not a third world country, Libya is not undeveloped (although parts may be considered underdeveloped). As for the third part of your question - who knows what it has been turned into over the last few months? I hope that the interference from foreign powers has not irretreviably destroyed the decades of peaceful living that Gadaffi had managed to maintain.
Sounds idyllic.

Only point that I find strange is that Gadaffi sent professional armies to Misarat but was unable to subdue the city or take over although only defended by lightly armed rebels; this was before Nato started up.
In contrast these rebels could quickly subdue Tripoli which is much larger than this city & was defended by both professional armies & (if you believe the media) many local loyalists who were armed by Gadaffi.

Conclusion that I draw from this is that many people in Tripoli supported the rebels; which implies it was not so much fun for the locals under Gadaffi?
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  #622  
Old 02.09.2011, 11:50
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Sounds idyllic.

Only point that I find strange is that Gadaffi sent professional armies to Misarat but was unable to subdue the city or take over although only defended by lightly armed rebels; this was before Nato started up.
In contrast these rebels could quickly subdue Tripoli which is much larger than this city & was defended by both professional armies & (if you believe the media) many local loyalists who were armed by Gadaffi.

Conclusion that I draw from this is that many people in Tripoli supported the rebels; which implies it was not so much fun for the locals under Gadaffi?
Rebels have been supported by the Qatar/US way before the NATO kicked in, they were providedAeryon Scout UAV + intelligence from the United States, Arms and amunition from Qatar to say the least.

Gaddafi was practically fighting the Rebels/US/EU from day one....not defending the dude but it's a fact.
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  #623  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:02
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Rebels have been supported by the Qatar/US way before the NATO kicked in, they were providedAeryon Scout UAV + intelligence from the United States, Arms and amunition from Qatar to say the least.

Gaddafi was practically fighting the Rebels/US/EU from day one....not defending the dude but it's a fact.
Do you have a source for this?
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  #624  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:10
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Do you have a source for this?
You got links to articles and videos including the Swiss investigation about the Swiss ammo provided to the rebels from Qatar, in addition Mohamed Jibril head of the NTC was the financial adviser of the princess of Qatar for long time and he was the main contact between rebels and Qatar.
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  #625  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:18
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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You got links to articles and videos including the Swiss investigation about the Swiss ammo provided to the rebels from Qatar, in addition Mohamed Jibril head of the NTC was the financial adviser of the princess of Qatar for long time and he was the main contact between rebels and Qatar.
Let me guess: none of the links actually show US involvement before UN resolution 1973.
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  #626  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:20
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Let me guess: none of the links actually show US involvement before UN resolution 1973.
You wouldn't get more info on this on a public forum indeed
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  #627  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:26
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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You wouldn't get more info on this on a public forum indeed
Of course - you have connections which provide you with "facts" the general public will never see. I bet you have pictures of the tooth fairy...
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  #628  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:28
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Of course - you have connections which provide you with "facts" the general public will never see. I bet you have pictures of the tooth fairy...
In short....YES
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  #629  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:29
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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In short....YES
This post is nothing without pictures - where is the tooth fairy?
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  #630  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:32
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Rebels have been supported by the Qatar/US way before the NATO kicked in, they were provided Aeryon Scout UAV ...
Would it be naughty of me to point out that Aeryon is Canadian, not American?
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  #631  
Old 02.09.2011, 13:34
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

So I suppose I have to post the tooth fairy photo myself?

Last edited by marton; 08.12.2017 at 17:37.
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  #632  
Old 03.09.2011, 02:12
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Rebels have been supported by the Qatar/US way before the NATO kicked in, they were providedAeryon Scout UAV + intelligence from the United States, Arms and amunition from Qatar to say the least.

Gaddafi was practically fighting the Rebels/US/EU from day one....not defending the dude but it's a fact.
A) Qatar ? Obviously yes. I suppose that the Emir of Qatar, a highly emotional chap to express it mildly, had an open bill with the Colonel
B) USA ? The US-Americans were rather reluctant about Libya, but of course when seeing that the Colonel had clearly lost out in regard to popularity, and when they had to see that France captured the lead of the West, HAD to jump in
C) Europe ? Europe in regard to Libya was sharply divided, with Britain trying to keep neutral, France having changed sides onto the side of the opposition extremely swiftly (looks as Mr Sarkozy had some scores with the Colonel just like the Qatari R.H.), and Italy keeping it with Mr Khaddafi until very last

Ever compared Egypt and Libya ? Ever imagined what would have happened, had Hosni Mubarak and his generals decided to use full military force to stay in power ?

Back to Libya. I can imagine that a provisional government will be fully in charge in Tripoli, elections being held in Libya, and Khaddafi in hiding all the time. Which is not so surprising if you have a look at the vast emptiness of the Fezzan.

And over to Syria. It is not very popular to say that Dr Assad may politically survive against all odds. With his Bismarck-ian mix of brutal power and soft reforms and modernisations. Western media gives lots of attention to criticisms by the Turkish leaders about Assad and also a lot of attention to the Iranians talking with Syrian opponents. In case of Turkey, it is "electioneering", in case of Iran it is to check all options. For Iran, the situation is awkward as they in case of a fall of the Damascus regime might lose their arrangements for their support for Hizbullah. The new leadership in Damascus, most likely Sunni-dominated, will of course continue the alliance between Damascus and the Amal Party in Lebanon and the el-Saika in Palestine, but most of all stop the passage of material from Iranian airplanes landing at Damascus-Airport to the Marjayoun-Litani regions of the Hizbullah-militia.

And in comes the KSA. The KSA will want to continue its support for Hamas, which upto now goes in the form of money to Iran and then in the form of Iranian hardware further on. The Saudis and Iranians may well convince the new Syrian leaders about the financial advantages of a continued co-operation. Let's not forget that things like that factory manufacturing Iranian motor cars under licence make the co-operation with Iran economically interesing
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  #633  
Old 03.09.2011, 03:55
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Would it be naughty of me to point out that Aeryon is Canadian, not American?
Yes weejeem your very naughty,everyone knows there are only lumberjacks and female country singers in Canada Canada also known as Toronto
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  #634  
Old 07.09.2011, 19:24
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

"A fully equipped gynaecological operating theatre, bedroom and jacuzzi have been discovered underneath Tripoli's Fateh University, the BBC reports. "

What??

The mind boggles!

Sex change operations???
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  #635  
Old 08.09.2011, 15:29
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Mr. Vertigo justified the expulsion of Jews from North Africa because they were "collaborators".

The same excuse is used now by Libyan "pro democracy" forces to torture, jail or kill black people.

What's good for the goose...
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  #636  
Old 11.09.2011, 15:29
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Mr. Vertigo justified the expulsion of Jews from North Africa because they were "collaborators".

The same excuse is used now by Libyan "pro democracy" forces to torture, jail or kill black people.

What's good for the goose...
You still need to learn the difference between justifying and explaining. You excel in rhetorical manipulation.
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  #637  
Old 11.09.2011, 16:09
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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You still need to learn the difference between justifying and explaining. You excel in rhetorical manipulation.
Guess we all know where all the manipulation skills comes from
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  #638  
Old 11.09.2011, 17:47
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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You still need to learn the difference between justifying and explaining. You excel in rhetorical manipulation.
Care to "explain" the similiarities, or just continue with ad hominems ?
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  #639  
Old 11.09.2011, 22:33
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

Quote Guardian "Muammar Gaddafi's son Saadi entered the territory of Libya's southern neighbor Niger today Niger's justice minister has said."

Wonder what they will do with him?
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  #640  
Old 12.09.2011, 01:31
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Re: Libya - 17 Feb "Day of wrath"

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Mr. Vertigo justified the expulsion of Jews from North Africa because they were "collaborators".

The same excuse is used now by Libyan "pro democracy" forces to torture, jail or kill black people.

What's good for the goose...
Wrong indeed, but of course a clear bye-bye to the Africa notions of Khaddafi who when being rejected in the Arab World tried to play the "Africa-card" which was never supported by most of the Libyans.

To be clear, too many "Sub-Saharans" worked as soldiers for the Khaddafi regime and helped to terrorize the Libyan population. Far too many Sub-Saharans were allowed into Libya just to be kept as pawns against Europe.
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