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  #41  
Old 17.02.2011, 16:06
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

I wonder who TF comes up with these ideas
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  #42  
Old 17.02.2011, 16:33
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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If the system works, why was it necessary for Sarah `s Law?
http://www.sarahslaw.co.uk/
I ask whether it was necessary.

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It is not just strangers who abuse children - 95% of children calling ChildLine about sexual and physical abuse know the abuser. Abusers include parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents, teachers, family friends, and brothers and sisters.
How would Sarah's/Megan's law help here?
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  #43  
Old 17.02.2011, 16:49
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

Maybe this is why the ex-criminals are asking to be removed from the register?

http://www.sarahslaw.co.uk/archives/19

"PARENTS will be able to check if people in contact with their children are registered sex offenders from Friday.
Dorset Police is one of 18 forces getting the powers of “Sarah’s Law” – a reference to the murdered schoolgirl Sarah Payne.
The Child Sex Offender Protection Scheme is being introduced nationally after a successful trial in four police forces.
Parents, guardians and third parties – such as friends and neighbours – can ask if someone with access to a child is a registered sex offender or poses a risk to the child.
Disclosure – which cannot be guaranteed – will usually be made to parents or guardians.
Unlike a similar American law, the details of paedophiles will not be actively publicised."

31 responses here: http://www.sarahslaw.co.uk/archives/6
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  #44  
Old 17.02.2011, 16:55
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

What Carlos said ... "stranger danger" as a concept sounds great, teach your children to avoid strangers - but abuse is far more common with people within the family!

I also wonder if Sarah's Law is necessary - and whether a person with a criminal history who has done their time (perhaps a long time ago!) is going to reoffend. The whole concept of the UK legal system is based around rehabilitation, not punishment. If it was just about punishment, it would be cheaper & easier to just hit people with big sticks - which I think is a great deterrent to dropping chewing gum on the street!

Seriously, any 'punishment' which is instant and irrevocable is a breach of human rights - even if there is no automatic end to the term, there should be a procedure available to determine when it no longer serves any useful purpose in each individual's case. Especially for the man and his boke - any boker could have found themselves in his position! Well, the more flexible ones, anyway ...
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  #45  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:01
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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Do bokes have human rights?
Stock bokers shouldn't.

But magicians who say "a boker doker" are quite okay.
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  #46  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:04
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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I agree with this. They've been given a sentence, it's been spent, that's it. This whole "register" thing plays into the irrational fear of needing to know who you're living next door to, lest they be evil predators. I don't fear a pedophile any more than I fear a murderer or somebody who's unstoppably violent. It's absolutely a violation of their human rights.
The guy who took a little girl's childhood by abusing of her and killing her took her fundamental human right to live and grow up like a normal little girl would. A sex offender of this level is not curable, nothing will cure him not even chopping his penis. So yes, he served his sentence and after he should be free to go. But what if he goes to an other area and does it again? What about the human rights of the kids to be protected from those criminals?

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Do you agree that people who have been convicted of a crime, sentenced to a punishment and served that punishment, should continue to be punished?
Yes, depending of the nature of the crime. We, those who respect the law, other human being and life, should have priorities of protection over those who feel no shame and no moral to commit such a violence crime.
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  #47  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:13
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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A sex offender of this level is not curable, nothing will cure him not even chopping his penis.
I believe you. Just PM me the link to the peer reviewed research which proves this of all sex offenders in the world, and we'll move on. No? Didn't think so.


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So yes, he served his sentence and after he should be free to go. But what if he goes to an other area and does it again?
What if a murderer does it again? Or a thief? Or a motorway speeder?

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What about the human rights of the kids to be protected from those criminals?
They're not criminals after they've spent their conviction. And what about the rights of the ex-cons to be protected from prejudices parents. Or the rights of prejudiced parents to be protected from ex-cons who want protection from...

That isn't how human rights works Nil.



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Yes, depending of the nature of the crime. We, those who respect the law, other human being and life, should have priorities of protection over those who feel no shame and no moral to commit such a violence crime.
True. That's what prison is for.
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  #48  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:19
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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No they're not. They're subject to debate.
Human rights are not at all subject to debate. They are absolute and defined since 1948 and cannot be revoked by any person or government whasoever. Some governments do not honor them, but this does not mean that somebody whose rights were violated does not have them.
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  #49  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:25
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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I believe you. Just PM me the link to the peer reviewed research which proves this of all sex offenders in the world, and we'll move on. No? Didn't think so.

What if a murderer does it again? Or a thief? Or a motorway speeder

They're not criminals after they've spent their conviction. And what about the rights of the ex-cons to be protected from prejudices parents. Or the rights of prejudiced parents to be protected from ex-cons who want protection from...

That isn't how human rights works Nil.

True. That's what prison is for.
I don't know how the laws are in UK when it comes to sentence someone and / or protect the population but in Canada it is pretty shitty.

Now I am not saying that I am rational on this exact topic since I have kids. But this is my opinion and I won't change it. My kids and all the other kids are higher priorities than an ex-sentenced paedo's rights of freedom.

A murder may be murder once. But a paedo will be a paedo all his life. And this is to the authorities to prove to US that it isn't true.

In Canada we see too often those guys who get back in society apparently being ''cured'' until they do it again. Yes too often... The justice system is crap on that matter.

As I said, I won't change my opinion on this too emotional topic.
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  #50  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:30
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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Now I am not saying that I am rational on this exact topic since I have kids.
STOP THE PRESS! What an incredibly new thought - you not being rational. I see you in a totally different light now.
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  #51  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:35
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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A murder may be murder once. But a paedo will be a paedo all his life.
Have you considered a career in extremist sharia law ?
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Old 17.02.2011, 17:35
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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Human rights are not at all subject to debate. They are absolute and defined since 1948 and cannot be revoked by any person or government whasoever. Some governments do not honor them, but this does not mean that somebody whose rights were violated does not have them.
Nonsense. They've been defined in some form or another for millennia, and they keep changing. They're nothing but shared and accepted norms.
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  #53  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:45
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

If you are the victim of a sex offender you live with that all your life.

Why should a sex offender be removed from the register - let him remain on it for life and live with it like the poor victim does..
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  #54  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:47
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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I don't know how the laws are in UK when it comes to sentence someone and / or protect the population but in Canada it is pretty shitty.
Then let's make it less shitty! Let's not put rapists away for 5 years or less - let's aim for more like 25 years.



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Now I am not saying that I am rational... But this is my opinion and I won't change it.
Which makes this thread probably incorrect for you to post on.
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  #55  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:48
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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A murder may be murder once. But a paedo will be a paedo all his life. And this is to the authorities to prove to US that it isn't true.

.
Unfortunately, the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
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  #56  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:49
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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If you are the victim of a sex offender you live with that all your life.

Why should a sex offender be removed from the register - let him remain on it for life and live with it like the poor victim does..
Again, I really don't see this as different from any other serious crime. It's the same if someone killed the child's sibling, poured acid over them - anything. I don't get why you have to be less curable/sicker/meaner if you're a pedophile than if you seriously harm a child in another way.
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  #57  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:51
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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And this is to the authorities to prove to US that it isn't true.
No Nil, this isn't ever true. The burden of proof is to the asserter.
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  #58  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:57
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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Human rights are not at all subject to debate. They are absolute and defined since 1948 and cannot be revoked by any person or government whasoever. Some governments do not honor them, but this does not mean that somebody whose rights were violated does not have them.
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Nonsense. They've been defined in some form or another for millennia, and they keep changing. They're nothing but shared and accepted norms.
It seems to me that you are talking at cross-purposes.

That humans have "rights" is one thing. What those specific "rights" are is another.

However, while technically you may be correct Corbets, I would suggest that the 1948 Declaration of Human Rights is different from the previous status quo, in that it specified that these rights were for all humans, no matter their status, nationality, ethic origin, or religious persuation.

Prior to this it was a bit ...how can I put it... hit and miss?
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Old 17.02.2011, 18:00
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

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It seems to me that you are talking at cross-purposes.

That humans have "rights" is one thing. What those specific "rights" are is another.

However, while technically you may be correct Corbets, I would suggest that the 1948 Declaration of Human Rights is different from the previous status quo, in that it specified that these rights were for all humans, no matter their status, nationality, ethic origin, or religious persuation.

Prior to this it was a bit ...how can I put it... hit and miss?
This view, while both valid and popular conforms to your particular view/school of International Relations to which I do not subscribe. I do not believe in universal human rights, I do not believe in moral absolutes, I do not believe in the efficacy of the UN or international law. The UDHR is most useful to journalists so they know who are the goodies and who are the baddies.
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Old 17.02.2011, 18:11
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Re: UK sex offenders can now apply to be removed from the Register.

You know, Nil is right about it being an emotional topic. I cant deny that economisto has a good point above too - about reoffending murderers, burglars etc. Innocent people will be hurt no matter which side of the law is passed - too liberal and some of these scum bags will be able change their names, disappear in the crowd and reoffend. On the other hand, you get those vigilantes / over paranoid parents who take it to another level, and basically make it impossible for the lower level offenders who genuinely want to start anew.

Having said that, just like these offenders have a right to a new lease of life after their prison term, the public deserves the right to know who is near their children and live in their neighbourhood. The issue is how to balance that.
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