Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 14.06.2011, 22:33
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 420
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,538 Times in 832 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
let me give you some "information" my friend: Turkey set up refugee camps for nearly ten thousand people in a matter of 2 days, all they have to complain is "boredom" at the moment, they are safe, well fed, well taken care of. This is quite a contrast compared to what many European countries will do when it comes to refugees, Europeans simply turn the ships back or put them directly into jail. In the case of Greece, they build border fences, and sometimes dump refugees into water to be picked up nobody but the Turkish navy.

Turkey is currently helping the Syrian refugees by risking a confrontation with Syria AND Iran. Now tell us what Europeans, Americans and Israeli's are doing about the crisis in Syria...(other than agitating the situation even more)
The people crossing from Turkey to Greece are not refugees - they are immigrants.
Refugees should be treated in the first safe country - for Syrians it Turkey.

Turkey made a lot of money dealing with Syria, it's only fair it should take care of the refugees. Once the situation calms the refugees will go back to Syria with gratitude.
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 14.06.2011, 22:39
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Why is Turkey blocking foreign access to the Refugees ?

The Turkish government took an anti Israel line 2 years ago, but anyway - why not support a Kurdish autonomy ? They are a people after all, with their own language & culture.
A) Turkey blocks foreign media access to the refugees, as the Turkish leadership does NOT want foreign mediafolks to realize that refugees and "Turkish" locals speak the same sort of Arabic
B) The Turkish government 2 years ago took a critical line towards Israel
C) The Turkish government will, for the foreseeable future, NOT accept a Kurdish autonomy, as they clearly know that such would just be the first step towards Kurdish independence north of the MustafaKemal/von-der-Goltz line
D) "People" the Kurds inside the Turkish Republic of course are and their own language and culture they have, but for Turkey they simply are citizens of the Republic of Turkey.
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 14.06.2011, 22:47
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
About "Why is Turkey blocking foreign access to the Refugees ?" to prevent them giving their versions of what is happening in Syria.

Why that?
  • to avoid upsetting the Syrian govt?
  • to give the Syrian army no excuse to march into Turkey & drag back their people?
  • or?

Sorry, are you joking ?? The Syrian army marching into Turkey ? A single of the Turkish army corps is stronger than the entire Syrian army. There is one Turkish army corps right to the north or Iraq, another one in Kylikia and the Antalya-region. The Syrian army in theory is modern, but no match to the gigantic and disciplined and well lead TK army.

I repeat it, that the Turkish government does not want media-folks in the whole area, but for sure is not in fears of the Syrian army
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 14.06.2011, 22:59
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 420
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,538 Times in 832 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Miracles happen - 2 posts by Wollishofener which are factually correct.
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 14.06.2011, 23:02
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
let me give you some "information" my friend: Turkey set up refugee camps for nearly ten thousand people in a matter of 2 days, all they have to complain is "boredom" at the moment, they are safe, well fed, well taken care of. This is quite a contrast compared to what many European countries will do when it comes to refugees, Europeans simply turn the ships back or put them directly into jail. In the case of Greece, they build border fences, and sometimes dump refugees into water to be picked up nobody but the Turkish navy.

Turkey is currently helping the Syrian refugees by risking a confrontation with Syria AND Iran. Now tell us what Europeans, Americans and Israeli's are doing about the crisis in Syria...(other than agitating the situation even more)
A) Italy has NOT turned the ships from Libya and Tunisia back !
B) Italy has NOT put the refugees into jail !
--- this could be continued
-
Greece ? Do you want to tell me that the Greek Navy is suddenly able to intercept refugee-boats in international waters ? Or do you want to tell me that the Turkish Navy operates inside Greek coastal waters ? Your story is a bit fishy !
-----
Who is "agitating" the situation ? If you mean Mrs Clinton, you are WRONG, as she did some highly justified criticisms about steps undertaken by Dr Assad and his regime. Israel ? Whatever "Pashosh" elaborated above, Israel up to now quite wisely has abstained from any interference into the matter
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #206  
Old 17.06.2011, 13:09
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 420
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,538 Times in 832 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Turkey is considering setting up a security zone - inside Syria.

It will be called a a "humanitarian corridor", but it's still foreign occupation. A very dangerous move if it takes place - but IMHO it's a just a way to put pressure on Assad to go.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 17.06.2011, 14:00
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,584
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,611 Times in 6,343 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Turkey is considering setting up a security zone - inside Syria.

It will be called a a "humanitarian corridor", but it's still foreign occupation. A very dangerous move if it takes place - but IMHO it's a just a way to put pressure on Assad to go.

About "A very dangerous move..."
Why, I think the Turkish army are very competent so Turkey will not be in danger?

I would guess the Iranians will not be throwing flowers in Turkey's direction.
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 17.06.2011, 14:26
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 420
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,538 Times in 832 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
About "A very dangerous move..."
Why, I think the Turkish army are very competent so Turkey will not be in danger?

I would guess the Iranians will not be throwing flowers in Turkey's direction.
The Turkish army is competent, but invading another country is dangerous.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pashosh for this useful post:
  #209  
Old 19.06.2011, 00:46
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 420
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,538 Times in 832 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Yet another celebrity visit: Angelina Jolie visited Syrian refugees in Turkey.

Maybe she should call her friend Asma Al-Assad to do something about it - after all, Madame Assad is a modern, english born & educated lady and so charming even Vogue wrote a piece about her.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 20.06.2011, 23:06
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,584
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,611 Times in 6,343 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Yet another wierd Arab dictator speech, today.

Syria's embattled leader, Bashar al-Assad, has blamed "saboteurs" backed by foreign powers for fomenting widespread civil unrest and said reform will not be possible while nationwide chaos continues.

I wonder if these dictators really think tat people listen to their speeches & believe what is said.

Only positive point is that he admits it is nationwide.
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 21.06.2011, 22:12
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Yet another wierd Arab dictator speech, today.

Syria's embattled leader, Bashar al-Assad, has blamed "saboteurs" backed by foreign powers for fomenting widespread civil unrest and said reform will not be possible while nationwide chaos continues.

I wonder if these dictators really think tat people listen to their speeches & believe what is said.

Only positive point is that he admits it is nationwide.
People like Bashar al-Assad live among their "circle" and so never hear outsider opinions. "Saboteurs backed by foreign powers" is a phrase out of "the old box"
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 23.06.2011, 16:31
oak oak is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 10
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
oak has no particular reputation at present
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Dictators don't have too many alternatives. Once you become a dictator, it's difficult to turn back and allow democracy. Because a lot of people will be searching for revenge. Like what happened to Mobarek who was the head of the country last year but now in jail. So dictators will either die or live in exile without old power and security. So they prefer to kill citizens for not being executed at the end which is happening right now.

Does anybody know a dictator who allowed democracy ?

Ataturk, the founder of Turkish Republic, comes to my mind. He once requested one of his loyal friends to found a second political party. But it was closed after 4 months, since it was seen as a strong political threat against the reforms. Turkey could pass to a multi-party system only after WW2 with American pressure but it was not smooth and interrupted by several military coup d'etats in the following decades. It's only in recent times that Turkish army hesitates to interrupt politics and the country started to enjoy a democracy and is becoming a regional power.

As for Syria, it is very difficult. I hope the number of people will die will be as little as possible.




Quote:
View Post
Yet another wierd Arab dictator speech, today.

Syria's embattled leader, Bashar al-Assad, has blamed "saboteurs" backed by foreign powers for fomenting widespread civil unrest and said reform will not be possible while nationwide chaos continues.

I wonder if these dictators really think tat people listen to their speeches & believe what is said.

Only positive point is that he admits it is nationwide.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank oak for this useful post:
  #213  
Old 01.07.2011, 20:04
hoppy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

I am hoping that Syria will not continue to be bloody, but it probably will.

I am not sure if this report accurately predicts a lull before the storm or is just surreptitiously war mongering.

Jul 2, 2011
Quote:
The fate of the Syrian regime is also far from clear yet. If Assad survives, he will have done so with heavy Iranian assistance, and may well be forced further into the Iranian embrace. Thus, while he would be weakened himself, at least in the short term he would be more likely to conduct Iranian policies (in the past, he has often tried to hold his own course).

In other words, the Iranian regime may turn out to be a superior chess player to Western leaders, always staying one step ahead as it races toward its goals. This creates the very real danger that the US and its allies may have to make hard choices in the near future about using the military muscle they have been flexing. ....
Saudi Arabia has also fallen relatively silent in the past weeks, as it quietly tries to maneuver in the crises in Yemen and Syria. In some ways, this also looks like a silence before a storm: Syria, in particular, as likely as Iraq to serve as a trigger for any potential showdown between the US and Iran.

If the Assad regime falls (perhaps with some foreign assistance), the entire Iranian deterrence axis featuring Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas would be gravely threatened. Thus, Iran may well be provoked into action, and even if this action is limited (for example, in Iraq), it could easily spiral into a war.

In general, the confrontation seems to be approaching its climax, and some kind of action to change the status quo seems inevitable. This action could be covert (a mixture of sabotage, diplomatic maneuvering and regime change from the inside in key countries), or it can be overt (war).

Its consequences may be felt immediately, or over time. At both extremes of the theoretical analysis stand the possibilities of a complete collapse of the Iranian regime and its allies and of a rout of the American-led alliance and the emergence of Iran as a regional hegemon.

Both of these options, however, are relatively unlikely; decisive military victory, especially in the highly codified modern form of warfare, has largely remained elusive, and its pursuit bears some resemblance to messianic logic.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MG02Ak02.html
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 01.07.2011, 23:10
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,584
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,611 Times in 6,343 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

About "Saudi Arabia has also fallen relatively silent in the past weeks"

Apart from stating that if Iran succeeds in making nuclear weapons then Saudi will as well.
Not my idea of "relatively silent "?
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 02.07.2011, 01:00
hoppy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
About "Saudi Arabia has also fallen relatively silent in the past weeks"

Apart from stating that if Iran succeeds in making nuclear weapons then Saudi will as well.
Not my idea of "relatively silent "?
Well, they say it's the lull before the storm- sounds like scaremongering to me. There's a new world order shaping up in the Middle East. At present everyone is jockeying for position. There is a lot of spying and surveillance, but it seems as if western countries are still selling the technology to help render any telecommunication or internet spyware ineffective.
What one hand takes away in the form of sanctions, the other hand gives!
If Saudi Arabia doesn't already have a nuclear program it will takes years to establish one. Iran started work on theirs during the Shah's time with the full backing of the US.
What the Middle East need in order to secure stable prosperity is to attract the return of the diaspora of intelligentsia. This includes artists, scientists, engineers, to inspire the people. This will not be an easy task.
What is preferable to the west- a Middle East not under their control or a Middle East kept in confusion?
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 02.07.2011, 12:36
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,584
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,611 Times in 6,343 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Well, they say it's the lull before the storm- sounds like scaremongering to me. There's a new world order shaping up in the Middle East. At present everyone is jockeying for position. There is a lot of spying and surveillance, but it seems as if western countries are still selling the technology to help render any telecommunication or internet spyware ineffective.
What one hand takes away in the form of sanctions, the other hand gives!
If Saudi Arabia doesn't already have a nuclear program it will takes years to establish one. Iran started work on theirs during the Shah's time with the full backing of the US.
What the Middle East need in order to secure stable prosperity is to attract the return of the diaspora of intelligentsia. This includes artists, scientists, engineers, to inspire the people. This will not be an easy task.
What is preferable to the west- a Middle East not under their control or a Middle East kept in confusion?
About "If Saudi Arabia doesn't already have a nuclear program it will takes years to establish one. Iran started work on theirs during the Shah's time with the full backing of the US."

I imagine Saudi will simply buy any nuclear weapons they need; not start a program.
If it is to match a nuclear armed Iran I suppose there will be countries willing to sell.
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 02.07.2011, 16:33
hoppy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
About "If Saudi Arabia doesn't already have a nuclear program it will takes years to establish one. Iran started work on theirs during the Shah's time with the full backing of the US."

I imagine Saudi will simply buy any nuclear weapons they need; not start a program.
If it is to match a nuclear armed Iran I suppose there will be countries willing to sell.
With a somewhat destabilized Saudi Arabia and Israel close by, who will openly sell to them. they haven't even got that massive arms shipment yet.

Quote:
“$60 billion Saudi deal for F-15 fighters has already cleared Congress but prospective sales of naval ships and missile-defense systems to Saudi Arabia and other regional partners have yet to be completed and could run into congressional hurdles.”

The few references to the Saudi arms deal made by U.S. government officials in public have been ambiguous. On May 3, Andrew Shapiro admitted in a speech given to the Defense Trade Advisory Group at the State Department that policymakers must account for the changing “geopolitical landscape” in the Middle East. But he added that the administration “remain[s] committed to Gulf security, which was borne out last year when we signed the largest defense trade deal in history with Saudi Arabia.” In testimony before the House Committee on Foreign Affairs on May 12, Principle Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Policy James Miller said that planned transactions with Middle Eastern nations have been “put on pause, put on hold.” He offered to discuss these transactions in “closed session.”
http://www.eurasiareview.com/trackin...ysis-02072011/
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 02.07.2011, 16:51
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 420
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,538 Times in 832 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Off topic, but at least it's clear how dangerous Iran is.
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 02.07.2011, 22:50
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 420
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,538 Times in 832 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

More mass demonstration yesterday and today.
My guess: assas will stay in power, the army is with him as well as many minorities who fear (rightly) a secterian war like Iraq's. No foreign power will do anything more than talk to remove him.
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 03.07.2011, 00:49
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,584
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,611 Times in 6,343 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
With a somewhat destabilized Saudi Arabia and Israel close by, who will openly sell to them. they haven't even got that massive arms shipment yet.

http://www.eurasiareview.com/trackin...ysis-02072011/
Well I guess it is easier to organise a delivery of a few nuclear weapons already sitting in US bases in Saudi?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Offering: Private Apartment in St. Gallen from 20.03.10 till 10.04.10 jttraveller Property wanted 0 16.01.2010 20:10
FLATshare/RoomShare - anywhere in CH till 30 Sept thick_guy_9 Property wanted 0 27.08.2009 16:19
Flat in basel just for 2 month till novamber? hamdi Property wanted 0 26.08.2008 19:42
Anyone else experiencing roadworks going on till late? argus Complaints corner 12 08.08.2008 15:59
For Sale till next saturday Anton Items for sale 11 11.01.2008 14:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0