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  #281  
Old 30.05.2012, 00:44
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The daily killing of civilians continue in Syria. The UN human rights keeps silent: Arab on Arab violence is not something it condmemns.
The present situation in Syria is a kind of Civil War. And so what the UN regards as "internal matter". Dr Assad in spite of all still has a good chance to stay in power

Do not forget that he has the support of
- Allawites
- Ismailites
- Druzes
- Christians
- the Bazaris
- Socialists
- Secularists
-
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  #282  
Old 22.06.2012, 23:57
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

strong rumour that the Syrians shot down a Turkish F4 Phantom, sounds like an unwanted escalation??
Open war with Turkey would be a real bummer!!
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  #283  
Old 23.06.2012, 00:05
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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strong rumour that the Syrians shot down a Turkish F4 Phantom, sounds like an unwanted escalation??
Open war with Turkey would be a real bummer!!
The Turkish Armed Forces would arrive in Damascus within 48 hours. A military conflict with Turkey was the nightmare of most Syrians for decades and still is ! What however will keep Turkey OFF rather is that the Turks do NOT want a political conflict with the Arab States, as they do good industrial exports to the Arab World.
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  #284  
Old 23.06.2012, 07:44
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Gulf of Tonkin II - the intrigue continues. Not quite sure what the Turkish Air Force was up to in the alleged area where they were shot down. They always thought their continued Kurd bashing in Northen Iraq was being camouflaged rather nicely by other events in the general area.

I have the feeling Turkey is to NATO what the Greeks are to the EU, a rather unwanted family member that you get lumbered with and feel awkward around.
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  #285  
Old 23.06.2012, 15:00
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

According to my very well connected sources (A random stranger connected to high voltage) - The Turkish jet was downed by an Israeli trained seagull, the pilot attacked by a Mossad shark. Erdoagan claims the F-4 was delivering aid to starving Syrian sardines.
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  #286  
Old 23.06.2012, 15:18
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Gulf of Tonkin II - the intrigue continues. Not quite sure what the Turkish Air Force was up to in the alleged area where they were shot down. They always thought their continued Kurd bashing in Northen Iraq was being camouflaged rather nicely by other events in the general area.

I have the feeling Turkey is to NATO what the Greeks are to the EU, a rather unwanted family member that you get lumbered with and feel awkward around.
Gulf of Tonkin 246 ,the first for Turkey 57th for Istrael the rest
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  #287  
Old 23.06.2012, 23:01
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Gulf of Tonkin II - the intrigue continues. Not quite sure what the Turkish Air Force was up to in the alleged area where they were shot down. They always thought their continued Kurd bashing in Northen Iraq was being camouflaged rather nicely by other events in the general area.

I have the feeling Turkey is to NATO what the Greeks are to the EU, a rather unwanted family member that you get lumbered with and feel awkward around.
A) unwanted maybe, but urgently required. That the HQ of the Naval Forces of NATO in the Eastern Med is in Izmir is NOT a coincidence. Turkey is the south-eastern pillar of NATO
B) yes, right now, things may become uncomfortable. The Turkish Armed Forces number permanently between 2.5 and 3.0 milllion men which means that one of their about five army corps is larger than the Syrian armed forces alltogether
C) The USA in words always was sympathetic towards the Kurds, but in reality NEVER supported the Kurds in any real way
D) it was remarkable to see how speedily the Syrians apologized , and how nicely they co-operate with the Turks ! Nobody in the area is to mess with that military-economic/industrial giant
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  #288  
Old 23.06.2012, 23:21
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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A) unwanted maybe, but urgently required. That the HQ of the Naval Forces of NATO in the Eastern Med is in Izmir is NOT a coincidence. Turkey is the south-eastern pillar of NATO
B) yes, right now, things may become uncomfortable. The Turkish Armed Forces number permanently between 2.5 and 3.0 milllion men which means that one of their about five army corps is larger than the Syrian armed forces alltogether
C) The USA in words always was sympathetic towards the Kurds, but in reality NEVER supported the Kurds in any real way
D) it was remarkable to see how speedily the Syrians apologized , and how nicely they co-operate with the Turks ! Nobody in the area is to mess with that military-economic/industrial giant
Turkish military is around 800,000 men...no country can afford and be able to maintain a military more than 1 million except US and China (and maybe India)

check your resources
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  #289  
Old 23.06.2012, 23:46
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Turkish military is around 800,000 men...no country can afford and be able to maintain a military more than 1 million except US and China (and maybe India)

check your resources
Ehmmm

Turkey's "Zero Problems with neighbors" policy looks like "Turkey's Zero: problems with neighbors" now.

What can Turkey legaly do now ? a Turkish war plane was shot down in Syrian territorial waters. Next thing you know Iraq will start doing the same.
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  #290  
Old 24.06.2012, 05:05
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Ehmmm

Turkey's "Zero Problems with neighbors" policy looks like "Turkey's Zero: problems with neighbors" now.

What can Turkey legaly do now ? a Turkish war plane was shot down in Syrian territorial waters. Next thing you know Iraq will start doing the same.
Pashosh is smoking the wrong brand ,I reco rehab
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  #291  
Old 24.06.2012, 10:40
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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A) unwanted maybe, but urgently required. That the HQ of the Naval Forces of NATO in the Eastern Med is in Izmir is NOT a coincidence. Turkey is the south-eastern pillar of NATO
B) yes, right now, things may become uncomfortable. The Turkish Armed Forces number permanently between 2.5 and 3.0 milllion men which means that one of their about five army corps is larger than the Syrian armed forces alltogether
C) The USA in words always was sympathetic towards the Kurds, but in reality NEVER supported the Kurds in any real way
D) it was remarkable to see how speedily the Syrians apologized , and how nicely they co-operate with the Turks ! Nobody in the area is to mess with that military-economic/industrial giant
Did the Syrians apologise? I did not see any confirmation anywhere, Erdogan did not mention an apology?

It is normal practice to send up fighters to escort foreign planes away - not just shoot them down.
UK & Russia played this game for many years; the Russians were always looking for a hole in the UK defence radar systems.
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  #292  
Old 26.06.2012, 12:08
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Did the Syrians apologise? I did not see any confirmation anywhere, Erdogan did not mention an apology?

It is normal practice to send up fighters to escort foreign planes away - not just shoot them down.
UK & Russia played this game for many years; the Russians were always looking for a hole in the UK defence radar systems.
Syrians did not apologize and I do not think they will ever do
Judging by how calm (relatively speaking) Erdogan and his entourage (ministers+media) are, they will let the incident die down slowly
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  #293  
Old 26.06.2012, 15:05
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Syrians did not apologize and I do not think they will ever do
Judging by how calm (relatively speaking) Erdogan and his entourage (ministers+media) are, they will let the incident die down slowly
Some amusing comments in the Press like,
"Syrians are afraid to launch fighters to escort Turkish planes away in case their own planes fly away"
&
"Firing missiles at planes is to discourage their own planes from attempting to escape".
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  #294  
Old 18.07.2012, 14:24
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Seems like Assad's inner circle was targeted by a bomber which has left a big hole in the circle; reading that again I should rephrase it but no time now
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  #295  
Old 18.07.2012, 14:38
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Seems like Assad's inner circle was targeted by a bomber which has left a big hole in the circle; reading that again I should rephrase it but no time now
Assad may rethink his support for suicide bombers. But I guess he has other things on his mind now.
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  #296  
Old 18.07.2012, 23:16
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

something strange about this story, when 4 people die then one should expect many injured?
where are the details?
Were more of the inner circle around?
Did the injured include Assad

Last edited by marton; 19.07.2012 at 00:13.
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  #297  
Old 19.07.2012, 00:56
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Turkish military is around 800,000 men...no country can afford and be able to maintain a military more than 1 million except US and China (and maybe India)

check your resources

I do not have to check resources but sources. The main source is a chap who with an independent company in Ankara for a while had to care for orders from the Turkish Armed Forces. I believe your count to be wrong, but even if correct, 800'000 men is an enormous figure. My "source" years ago told me that the number of men differed as it is a militia army but that even at low tide it was above 600'000 men and at mobilisation could reach up to 3.5 mio. . All the figures I refer to are from the early 1990ies and may have been reduced in the meantime. But ... please .... are you aware of what you say ? This is not armed forces spread over the globe but armed forces concentrated along the eastern border towards Iran and the southeastern border towards Iraq and Syria, and small contingents in the Aegean and on Cyprus. Wiki speaks about a minimum of 666'000 men. The Greek Cypriots (NOT the Turkish-Cypriots) speak about more than 250'000 Turkish troops on Cyprus.

Where do such differences in numbers come from ? If you see that the "mobilisation force" of the Swiss Armed Forces is more than 1.5 mio. men. it is obvious that the mobilisation force of the 10-times larger Turkey would be more than 10 mio. men, militarily educated men.

Now, if you in Northern Cyprus see the number of Turkish troops and make your calculations, together with some Germans and Austrians, you land at figures fairly close to both the Greek Cypriot and my contact and well informed people in Damascus and Beirut. So that my guess about the Turkish armed forces around actively in these days is between 1.8 mio and 3.0 mio men. Where do figures like 666'000 and 800'000 come from ? I can tell you where from ! From the Turkish government, who always tries to downplay their strategic weight. This does not change the fact that well informed people in Greece, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon fear that military-industrial giant
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  #298  
Old 19.07.2012, 01:03
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Pashosh is smoking the wrong brand ,I reco rehab
No, absolutely the right brand ! What he wrote is what the Turks on all levels discuss. Their problem is not the strength of their armed forces, it is the political isolation of Turkey ---->
> distrusted by many people in the West
> liked as commercial partner, but feared by the Arabs
> feared by Greece, Armenia and Iran
> feared by a sizeable Arab majority in Kylikia and the Sandshak

For Turkey, to have respect maintained for the 1917/18
Mustafa Kemal -- Von der Goltz line is essential for the
survival of the Turkish Republic
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  #299  
Old 19.07.2012, 01:09
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Did the Syrians apologise? I did not see any confirmation anywhere, Erdogan did not mention an apology?

It is normal practice to send up fighters to escort foreign planes away - not just shoot them down.
UK & Russia played this game for many years; the Russians were always looking for a hole in the UK defence radar systems.
The Syrians told the Turks to be sorry for what has happened but that the Turkish plane was above Syrian territorial waters, a point the Turks in the meantime accepted. What the Turks however do NOT accept is that the Syrians DID shoot ! I would recommend to any military commanders in Syria and other TK-adjoining states to be reluctant in regard to Turkey, as it to me is obvious what the command from Ankara to all regional upper echelons officers now is !
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Old 19.07.2012, 01:18
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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something strange about this story, when 4 people die then one should expect many injured?
where are the details?
Were more of the inner circle around?
Did the injured include Assad
Reports spoke about many injured people including the Interior Minister.
Most of the Inner Circle was around.
whether Dr Assad was present is unknown.
-

It looks as if the bomb was NOT brought up by a suicider but placed well ahead in the room of the meeting

AND if some generals after the bombing did what Dr Assad also should do, they FLED abroad. It increasingly
looks as if the regime-change if unavoidable, whatever comes next in Syria

Last edited by Wollishofener; 19.07.2012 at 09:12.
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