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  #581  
Old 18.10.2015, 20:06
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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With the help of Russia for only 2 weeks Syrian Army are capturing the terrorists that the American's were "fighting" for few years now





The Americans were fighting who exactly?!
So that is one; only 49,999 more to capture!
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  #582  
Old 19.10.2015, 22:52
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Hopp Russia!!!

Putin Officials Said to Admit Real Syria Goal Is Far Broader
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  #583  
Old 19.10.2015, 23:25
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Going into that conflict was never really a problem. Getting out is the bigger problem.
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  #584  
Old 20.10.2015, 00:37
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Good summary of the mess in Syria:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKb9GVU8bHE
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  #585  
Old 20.10.2015, 00:43
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over


Challenge for Russia is to walk the path between military success in Syria and too much military success so that Saudi, Quatar and all start sending proper weapons to the rebels!!
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  #586  
Old 20.10.2015, 21:27
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Good summary of the mess in Syria:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKb9GVU8bHE
Agreed.

Russian soldiers killed in Syria.


Russian footage from Syria:



THe west should insist that Russia takes some responsibilty for the refugees.
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  #587  
Old 20.10.2015, 22:21
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Challenge for Russia is to walk the path between military success in Syria and too much military success so that Saudi, Quatar and all start sending proper weapons to the rebels!!
I don't think that by sending weapons to the rebels they can achieve anything if Russia is serious about this war.
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  #588  
Old 20.10.2015, 22:23
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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THe west should insist that Russia takes some responsibilty for the refugees.
The West should first of all get assume some responsibility itself.
How many Syrian refugess have the UK, the US or Canada taken so far?
After all, come on, a war zone is a horrible place to be, but I wouldn't wish anyone to be "hosted" by Putin's Russia.
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  #589  
Old 20.10.2015, 22:33
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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I don't think that by sending weapons to the rebels they can achieve anything if Russia is serious about this war.
The US had superior weapons, but did they "win" in Iraq? Did the USSR or the US "win" in Afghanistan with superior weapons? The ME is a quagmire, NOBODY is going to win there, because there is no way to win.

Putin is now doing the same "shock and awe" type theatrics the US did back in 2003. Showing "war porn" videos of bombs blowing up bad guys and giving everyone in Russia a patriotic boner. That's great in the short term, but in the long term, well, that's a different ball-game, and that's the one that isn't so appealing....
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  #590  
Old 20.10.2015, 22:50
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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I don't think that by sending weapons to the rebels they can achieve anything if Russia is serious about this war.

Anti aircraft weapons
Armed drones
Such ground attacks in Syria are a different type of fighting versus E. Ukraine that was more traditional; they started the Syria ground attacks 2 weeks ago and there is a marked lack of victory claims.
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  #591  
Old 20.10.2015, 22:57
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The US had superior weapons, but did they "win" in Iraq? Did the USSR or the US "win" in Afghanistan with superior weapons? The ME is a quagmire, NOBODY is going to win there, because there is no way to win.

Putin is now doing the same "shock and awe" type theatrics the US did back in 2003. Showing "war porn" videos of bombs blowing up bad guys and giving everyone in Russia a patriotic boner. That's great in the short term, but in the long term, well, that's a different ball-game, and that's the one that isn't so appealing....
The difference is that the US had no plan about what to do with Afganistan and Iraq after they won the offensive part of the war.
Putin has a plan: hand it back to Assad.
Hopefully it will work. Not because I like Russia or Assad (in fact I absolutely dislike Putin and what is going on in Russia right now) but because some normality in Syia is the first step for stopping this flow of refugees.
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  #592  
Old 20.10.2015, 23:03
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

I don't see how that is ever going to end when those boys out there are having as much fun as they are fighting. I also don't see Russia just ending it, packing up and leaving after a job done. I think he intends to stick around and try to get something out of this. They could be hoping for Mutti Merkel to come around to ask them what they would like in return for ending it, then they can ask for something really big.
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  #593  
Old 20.10.2015, 23:10
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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hand it back to Assad.
I'm not at all sure Syria can be put together again, nor that Assad could hold it without massive help from Iran and Russia ,and if Assad regains Syria - it would certainly won't be a place anyone who had a choice would want to live in. so not a solution for the refugees.

If the U.S and Russia agree on giving Assad an Alawite state, there may be a chance to end the war. See Yugoslavia in the 1990s for some interesting similarities. Or the Congo wars for a more recent example.
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  #594  
Old 20.10.2015, 23:20
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The difference is that the US had no plan about what to do with Afganistan and Iraq after they won the offensive part of the war.
Putin has a plan: hand it back to Assad.
Hopefully it will work.
The US did have plan for Iraq: remove dictator, install democracy. Sounds good on paper, but in reality, not so simple.
Russia's plan sounds simple too...
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  #595  
Old 20.10.2015, 23:42
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The US did have plan for Iraq: remove dictator, install democracy. Sounds good on paper, but in reality, not so simple.
Russia's plan sounds simple too...
Basic problem is defeating the rebels.
They simply melt into the population until the heavy troops leave and then pop out again.
Assad would not be given a country but a boiling pot requiring many foreign heavily armed "cooks" to keep the lid on; who might eventually decide why do it for Assad? - more simple to keep it for themselves! You can never have enough oil reserves?

As an example "Reported today; Taliban seize former British stronghold in Helmand"
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  #596  
Old 21.10.2015, 09:02
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The US did have plan for Iraq: remove dictator, install democracy.

No, that was not the plan. The plan was: depose our enemies, install a cooperative regime, and sell it to voters as "democracy".
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  #597  
Old 21.10.2015, 09:08
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Basic problem is defeating the rebels.
They simply melt into the population until the heavy troops leave and then pop out again.
Assad would not be given a country but a boiling pot requiring many foreign heavily armed "cooks" to keep the lid on;

One bribes some of them as (party) members, jails and kills anybody even remotely sympathizing, installs a network of spies and secret police, terrorizes people, choose the worst scums to run the business. Actually Russia knows all these tactics first hand, as any other dictator (look how they did it in Chechnya and now in Donbas), so they might eventually "succeed" in subduing the people.
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  #598  
Old 21.10.2015, 10:17
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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I'm not at all sure Syria can be put together again, nor that Assad could hold it without massive help from Iran and Russia ,and if Assad regains Syria - it would certainly won't be a place anyone who had a choice would want to live in. so not a solution for the refugees.

If the U.S and Russia agree on giving Assad an Alawite state, there may be a chance to end the war. See Yugoslavia in the 1990s for some interesting similarities. Or the Congo wars for a more recent example.
Oh, I don't disagree about this.
When I said "some normality in Syia" I didn't mean necessarily that they should go back to the previous borders. For instance a stable Alawite state (not exclusively Alawite but all the parts where the people prefer Assad to chaos) in the West and South of Suria and a stable Kurdish state in the North would already be better than what is going on today.
Then at least some of the people who are currently in refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan, etc can go back there.

As for the vast desert, the Syrian air force, the Russians and Iran can keep fighting the rebels until they kill them all or until they go back to mommy in Paris and London crying. It's not gonna be easy, it may not even succeed, but it will be better than what is going on today.
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Old 21.10.2015, 15:20
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Seems Assad visited Putin in Moscow yesterday. Surprised Macho man did not fly to Damascus

Wonder what they discussed; the post meeting press releases do not contain anything that explains the neccessity for the meeting - especially as this is the first time in 4 years Assad left Syria!

Maybe the joint campaign is not meeting planned goals?

Funny, Turkey has commented in some newspapers. At one time Turkey had ambitions to be the regional political leader and decision maker. Now all sorts of people and countries have meetings and achieve decisions without inviting Erdogan. Consequently Turkey tries to show leadership by commenting.

Apparenty the deal between the West and Russia to share air space over Syria without conflict upset Turkey (who were not invited to the discussions) who has both planes over Syria and leadership ambitions!
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Old 21.10.2015, 17:27
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Seems Assad visited Putin in Moscow yesterday. Surprised Macho man did not fly to Damascus

Wonder what they discussed; the post meeting press releases do not contain anything that explains the neccessity for the meeting - especially as this is the first time in 4 years Assad left Syria!

Maybe the joint campaign is not meeting planned goals?

Funny, Turkey has commented in some newspapers. At one time Turkey had ambitions to be the regional political leader and decision maker. Now all sorts of people and countries have meetings and achieve decisions without inviting Erdogan. Consequently Turkey tries to show leadership by commenting.

Apparenty the deal between the West and Russia to share air space over Syria without conflict upset Turkey (who were not invited to the discussions) who has both planes over Syria and leadership ambitions!
More news creeping out about Assads reasons to go to Moscow.
Seems Iran and Russia are not working well together. Iran really wants to destroy ISIS and not so interested in Assads future, they are not really interested in fighting the "moderate" rebels and losing ground troops for this goal!

Remember Russia sold this as an Iran/Iraq/Syria/Russia anti ISIS alliance!
Iraq is also rocking the boat by asking Russia to bomb ISIS when Russia has no interest in this today.
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