Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #801  
Old 18.02.2016, 15:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 5,134
Groaned at 159 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 6,551 Times in 3,364 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Erdogan will fight that development tooth and nail.

For one, Turkey's sovereignty is threatened if the turkish separation got much impetus, even more so as a kurdish state would be able to, and probably would, support their brothers and sisters in the other countries. Probably he can even argue that it's his duty as every country is allowed to defend itself and its sovereignty.

Two, by increasing the shooting and bombing he increases the stream of refugees towards Europe, which gives him considerable leverage against the EU (they offered 1bln but ended up paying 3bln). This part alone is like a self-reinforcing circle.

He may even think of gobbling up some areas for himself (you have heard the rumors about his son's illegal oil tradings).
Reply With Quote
  #802  
Old 18.02.2016, 16:23
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 419
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,532 Times in 826 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
If you read closely you'll find that out of 3600 killed, 1400 or about 40% were classified as civilians.

However, wouldn't one expect a roughly even distribution between the sexes? Well, there were 332 children and 195 women among those 1380 classified as civilians, and thus 853 grown up men, not exactly what I'd call even.

The article quotes SOHR, short for Syrian Organisation for Human Rights. The organisation has one sole permanent employee, namely Rami Abdulrahman (aka Osama Suleiman). Well, according to Wiki he hasn't been in Syria since 2000.
Absolutely - like I said the numbers are hard to validate, but the russians are still killing a lot more (I assume the women and children flee before the men).

A Kurdish state on Turkey's border plus over a million refugees in Turkey (The vast majority of which probably won't come to Europe) are a nightmare for Erdogan. Well done, Mr. "Zero problems"
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pashosh for this useful post:
  #803  
Old 18.02.2016, 16:28
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Erdogan will fight that development tooth and nail.

For one, Turkey's sovereignty is threatened if the turkish separation got much impetus, even more so as a kurdish state would be able to, and probably would, support their brothers and sisters in the other countries. Probably he can even argue that it's his duty as every country is allowed to defend itself and its sovereignty.

Two, by increasing the shooting and bombing he increases the stream of refugees towards Europe, which gives him considerable leverage against the EU (they offered 1bln but ended up paying 3bln). This part alone is like a self-reinforcing circle.

He may even think of gobbling up some areas for himself (you have heard the rumors about his son's illegal oil tradings).
His son; "The Bologna Public Prosecutor's Office in Italy has launched an investigation into President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's son Bilal Erdoğan, who moved to Italy in October of last year to finish his doctorate, which he started in 2007, on suspicion of money laundering.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-in-Italy.html. Telegraph UK."

"Erdogan will fight that development tooth and nail." True but his options are ever more limited. By shooting down the Russian plane he caused the Russians to turn Syria into a no-fly zone for Turkey so bombing is no longer possible.

Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu who talked about a Turkish ground invasion last week has now reversed his position;
"Turkey, Saudi Arabia and some European allies want ground troops deployed in Syria but there is no consensus in the coalition and a strategy for such an operation has not been seriously debated", Turkey's foreign minister told Reuters here,

I assume that just leaves Erdogan with his only option to continue massacring Kurds within Turkey.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #804  
Old 19.02.2016, 10:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 5,134
Groaned at 159 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 6,551 Times in 3,364 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Absolutely - like I said the numbers are hard to validate, but the russians are still killing a lot more (I assume the women and children flee before the men).
So numbers aren't known with reasonable reliability and yet you claim the Russians kill more (civilians) than the West? Sounds very much like a prejudice to me.

Btw up to 90% of those killed by US drones in Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc apparently are civilians. See the links provided by yacek.
Quote:
View Post
A Kurdish state on Turkey's border plus over a million refugees in Turkey (The vast majority of which probably won't come to Europe) are a nightmare for Erdogan. Well done, Mr. "Zero problems"
I thought it was about 2.5-3mln from Syria alone, plus 1mln Iraqis? I agree though that the majority will stay in the region, probably in Turkey.
Reply With Quote
  #805  
Old 20.02.2016, 06:09
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
A Verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on

It's possible that Assad and his supporters/masters in Moscow/Teheran made some promises, but a Kurdish state is not in their interest.

An Independent Kurdistan IS indeed in Putin's interest as it will be pro_Russian, and Putin is not making promises but delivers weapons
Reply With Quote
  #806  
Old 20.02.2016, 06:16
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Turkey (NATO member) has started shelling Kurds in Northern Syria. Apparently, the sole aim of this is to stop the Kurds liberating northern Syria from ISIS.

The US (also NATO member) have told Turkey to stop this.

Meanwhile, Russia is pounding anything non Assad into dust. Whilst maintaining an aggressive stance against Turkey.

Saudi, Qatar and other Arab nations are making moves towards a ground assault in Syria.

Iran are waiting in the wings for any excuse to bomb Arabs. If there is a ground assault, and if Assad call's for air support from Iran to protect Syria's sovereignty this could kick off big style.

This could be the start of a Shia/Sunni war.

There is no Sunni army and there is no Shi'ite army, Most people in the Syrian army are Sunni
Reply With Quote
  #807  
Old 20.02.2016, 06:22
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
So numbers aren't known with reasonable reliability and yet you claim the Russians kill more (civilians) than the West? Sounds very much like a prejudice to me.

Btw up to 90% of those killed by US drones in Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc apparently are civilians. See the links provided by yacek.

I thought it was about 2.5-3mln from Syria alone, plus 1mln Iraqis? I agree though that the majority will stay in the region, probably in Turkey.

Almost one mio Syrians fled to Lebanon and another Million to Jordan. Not many will stay in Turkey due to differences of language and mentality
Reply With Quote
  #808  
Old 22.02.2016, 16:36
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 419
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,532 Times in 826 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
So numbers aren't known with reasonable reliability and yet you claim the Russians kill more (civilians) than the West? Sounds very much like a prejudice to me.

Btw up to 90% of those killed by US drones in Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc apparently are civilians. See the links provided by yacek.

I thought it was about 2.5-3mln from Syria alone, plus 1mln Iraqis? I agree though that the majority will stay in the region, probably in Turkey.
I said that Russia is killing more civilians than ISIS, not the west.

1. Russia is the strongest army in the Syrian war, with recent history of disregard for Civilian casualties (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine)
2. Testimonies from Syrian refugees.
3. Even if you reduce the numbers by 50%, Russia is still way ahead of ISIS.

MDF will no longer give the coordinates of their hospitals as they are bombed from the air by Assad (and the Russians, as we have recently seen)
Reply With Quote
  #809  
Old 22.02.2016, 18:45
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,048
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
I said that Russia is killing more civilians than ISIS, not the west.

1. Russia is the strongest army in the Syrian war, with recent history of disregard for Civilian casualties (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine)
2. Testimonies from Syrian refugees.
3. Even if you reduce the numbers by 50%, Russia is still way ahead of ISIS.

MDF will no longer give the coordinates of their hospitals as they are bombed from the air by Assad (and the Russians, as we have recently seen)
100% pure zionist/western propaganda — all of it parroted ad nauseum in the zionist/western 'media' and none of it unambiguously substantiated via any unequivical, hard evidence.

EDIT (typical): «US State department says evidence not needed to prove accusations»


Last edited by Texaner; 23.02.2016 at 20:51.
Reply With Quote
  #810  
Old 22.02.2016, 22:40
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,298
Groaned at 48 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,762 Times in 1,186 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
"Some Russian air strikes appear to have directly attacked civilians or civilian objects by striking residential areas with no evident military target and even medical facilities, resulting in deaths and injuries to civilians."
-Philip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Director at Amnesty International
Amnesty International has some pretty harsh words for Russia...as does the UN....

Quote:
About 50 civilians were killed when missiles hit five medical centers and two schools in rebel-held Syrian towns on Monday, the United Nations and residents said.
The carnage occurred as Russian-backed Syrian troops intensified their push toward the rebel stronghold of Aleppo.
MSF appears to feel it was the Russians who bombed their hospitals...

Quote:
Liu said the group has no certainty about who was responsible for the strikes, but the "probability" was that Syrian or Russian air power was to blame. She said MSF's policy of not informing Syrian or Russian officials about the location of health facilities has become a "hot topic" inside the organization
Reply With Quote
  #811  
Old 24.02.2016, 00:59
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Government forces retook Aleppo. Which was held by ISIS jihadists. They simply vanished so must be among the 70,000 refugees heading into Turkey. What a mess.
Still has not happened and that announcement was more than two weeks ago; Govt. forces have not taken Aleppo nor even managed to surround it yet.
Fierce fighting all around the town involving all sorts of different groups.
Reply With Quote
  #812  
Old 24.02.2016, 08:59
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,758
Groaned at 498 Times in 304 Posts
Thanked 7,894 Times in 3,096 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Still has not happened and that announcement was more than two weeks ago; Govt. forces have not taken Aleppo nor even managed to surround it yet.
Fierce fighting all around the town involving all sorts of different groups.
It's surrounded. Only a matter of time now.

Reply With Quote
  #813  
Old 24.02.2016, 12:14
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 419
Groaned at 169 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 1,532 Times in 826 Posts
Pashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputationPashosh has an excellent reputation
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
It's surrounded. Only a matter of time now.
Maybe. Leningrad and Sarajevo didn't. Cities don't fall so fast, especially when losing the battle means the losers are massacred. The Russians will continue bombing it, but taking it means ground troops, where the rebels are at least as good as the Assad-iranian-hizbullah.
Reply With Quote
  #814  
Old 13.03.2016, 21:01
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Russia is claiming that Turkey is creeping into Syria on the ground, source here.

Taking unfair advantage of the cease fire I assume
Reply With Quote
  #815  
Old 13.03.2016, 21:11
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Still has not happened and that announcement was more than two weeks ago; Govt. forces have not taken Aleppo nor even managed to surround it yet.
Fierce fighting all around the town involving all sorts of different groups.
Quote:
View Post
It's surrounded. Only a matter of time now.
Another two weeks gone by and still fierce fighting without any resolution for Aleppo despite the cease fire.

Meanwhile many refugees are stuck on the Turkish border because Turkey has closed the border (but only one way as the Russians claim Turkish army is moving into Syria).
Reply With Quote
  #816  
Old 13.03.2016, 21:13
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,048
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Maybe. Leningrad and Sarajevo didn't. Cities don't fall so fast, especially when losing the battle means the losers are massacred...
The city of Leningrad was collectively fighting unwanted invaders. The people of Aleppo can hardly be described as being collectively on the side of Daesh, fighting with them against a foreign invader. The prospective losers are the ZIONIST Daesh/IS (when did they ever harm or threaten "Israel"?), who quite deserve to be massacred.
Reply With Quote
  #817  
Old 13.03.2016, 21:16
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
The city of Leningrad was collectively fighting unwanted invaders. The people of Aleppo can hardly be described as being collectively on the side of Daesh, fighting with them against a foreign invader. The prospective losers are the ZIONIST Daesh/IS (when did they ever harm or threaten "Israel"?), who quite deserve to be massacred.
"the ZIONIST Daesh/IS"
LOL, do not let the Islam fundamentalists in Daesh/IS know you are describing them as Zionist; might not be good for your health.

Might be a good anti - terrorist ploy to tell the young potential Jihadist volunteers that they will have to be circumcised (no deterrent if they already are )
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #818  
Old 13.03.2016, 23:41
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,298
Groaned at 48 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,762 Times in 1,186 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
The prospective losers are the ZIONIST Daesh/IS
Whaa? You are saying IS are pro-Jewish Islamic fundamentalists?


Zionism: a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture

IS: is a Salafi jihadist militant group that follows an Islamic fundamentalist, Wahhabi doctrine of Sunni Islam
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank esto for this useful post:
  #819  
Old 14.03.2016, 20:53
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

In a surprise move Putin has ordered his forces out of Syria, he says their work is done!

So ISIS is defeated?

I have not given a source as it is in every newspaper.

So US will have the last laugh!

Can all you Putin fans who explained his strategy was to wipe out the anti Assad groups before turning on ISIS please comment?

I assume he has run out of money to continue the campaign?

Pity is that Erdogan will be able to resume bombing the Syrian Kurds!

Maybe Putin's strategy really was to createbso many refugees that Merkle would be defeated but thatvalso failed!
Reply With Quote
  #820  
Old 14.03.2016, 21:04
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,298
Groaned at 48 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,762 Times in 1,186 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
MOSCOW, March 14. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin has issued an order to begin withdrawal of Russian forces from Syria starting from March 15.

"I think that the tasks set to the defense ministry are generally fulfilled. That is why I order to begin withdrawal of most of our military group from Syria starting from tomorrow," Putin said on Monday at a meeting with Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
Interesting. Either A) Assad pissed off Putin enough that Putin won't fully back him anymore, or B) the EU struck a back-room deal with Putin

...and so if Putin is wrapping up the Syrian campaign, then what's next? With falling oil prices and crumbling Ruble, Putin needs a distraction to keep the Russian people's mind on something else. Back to Ukraine again? Or maybe invade some other weak neighbor that's brimming with "fascists"?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank esto for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Offering: Private Apartment in St. Gallen from 20.03.10 till 10.04.10 jttraveller Property wanted 0 16.01.2010 20:10
FLATshare/RoomShare - anywhere in CH till 30 Sept thick_guy_9 Property wanted 0 27.08.2009 16:19
Flat in basel just for 2 month till novamber? hamdi Property wanted 0 26.08.2008 19:42
Anyone else experiencing roadworks going on till late? argus Complaints corner 12 08.08.2008 15:59
For Sale till next saturday Anton Items for sale 11 11.01.2008 14:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0