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  #1241  
Old 02.05.2018, 12:30
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Not related to Syria, but as Yacek is very interested in Israel & Jews I'll bite.
It is all related to Syria, as before Russia and Iran intervention the game was to overthrow Assad and install someone else who will not ask for Golan Heights back. What happened now is what happened with Iraq - both US and Israel and American Israelis thought it is good for both "world peace" and Israel's security.
Now come the unintended consequences - both Iraq and Syria are under Iran's influence.
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  #1242  
Old 02.05.2018, 14:13
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

When I started this thread more than 7 years ago, "The Game" was popular, mostly non violent , demonstrations against Assad.

Would the opposition be better than Assad ? probably not
Would the opposition relinquish Syria's claims for the Golan - ditto.

btw - the Golan has been Israeli for more than 50 years, Syrian for less than 20.

7 years later, Syria has torn itself to pieces. same as Lebanon did in the 70-80s. Maybe the sheer war fatigue will bring quiet to what's left of Syria - but medium to long term the prospects of long term stability are very low.
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  #1243  
Old 02.05.2018, 16:27
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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When I started this thread more than 7 years ago, "The Game" was popular, mostly non violent , demonstrations against Assad.
Without arms funneled from US and its allies into Syria it would go nowhere beyond that.

Last edited by yacek; 02.05.2018 at 16:51.
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  #1244  
Old 02.05.2018, 17:09
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Without arms funneled from US and its allies into Syria it would go nowhere beyond that.
Do you have any reliable sources for your claim the the U.S smuggled weapons or is it another of your baseless claims (like "Israel claims they've found WMD in Iran") ?

The rebels were supplied by anti-shia Arab regimes and Turkey.

Without rebel weapons - Assad would have simply massacred his opponents like his father before him. Maybe there would have been less destruction - Warsaw would have been spared similar destruction under similar circumstances in 1944.
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  #1245  
Old 02.05.2018, 19:05
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Do you have any reliable sources for your claim the the U.S smuggled weapons or is it another of your baseless claims (like "Israel claims they've found WMD in Iran") ?

The rebels were supplied by anti-shia Arab regimes and Turkey.

Without rebel weapons - Assad would have simply massacred his opponents like his father before him. Maybe there would have been less destruction - Warsaw would have been spared similar destruction under similar circumstances in 1944.
Of course, there are NGOs which directly traced US bought arms in Europe which was then used in Syria.
And of course everybody knows this was is a a proxy one fueled from outside, otherwise it would have been over long ago.
The comparison with Warsaw is completely wrong; Warsaw wasn't at civil war then, there was basically one occupying force.
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  #1246  
Old 02.05.2018, 19:22
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

I asked for reliable sources, please provide them or retract.
Warsaw 1944 : the poles could have waited it out, but chose to rebel.
Syria 2011: what should have the opposition done?
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  #1247  
Old 02.05.2018, 19:46
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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I asked for reliable sources, please provide them or retract.
Warsaw 1944 : the poles could have waited it out, but chose to rebel.
Syria 2011: what should have the opposition done?
I'll not address Warsaw uprisal - sources abound.
As to US arms deliveries to Syria's rebels - credible sources abound describing how US was buying weapon in Europe and shipping it to Syria, e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conf...ament_Research - ses the Reporting section.
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  #1248  
Old 02.05.2018, 20:19
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

By "abound" you probably mean not much at all.
"While 90% of the weapons and ammunition studied originated in China, Russia, Eastern Europe, the report also said some of the weapons that were eventually diverted to ISIS was originally provided by the US and Saudi Arabia to Syrian opposition forces over the course of the conflict."

So almost all the weapons had nothing to do with the U.S.

So if you were a democraticaly minded Syrian what would you do?
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  #1249  
Old 02.05.2018, 23:10
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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So if you were a democraticaly minded Syrian what would you do?
There aren't any credible forces that are "democratic" there. Kurds were purging (re)conquered territories, and even Iraqi "democratic" gov't is disposing of its enemies without much ado neither there nor in the West.
US and their allies were giving arms to the same type people as the Assad regime, more-or-less.. That's why weapons supplied by them ended up in IS hands so quickly.
Everybody knows it is a proxy war, turning it upside down, democratic, whatever doesn't change anything in the bare truth that a proxy war can go on much, much longer than a regular one because of unlimited supplies from outside and because the incentives are then to inflict the biggest human cost possible on the other side while in typical civil war the incentives to do it are not there (because of the need to settle eventually). This dynamics of a proxy war and huge human cost of it a proven thing. It is pure cynicism to evoke any "democratic" or "humanitarian" motives.

P.S. Regarding the amount of US arms, first they were sending then in a concealed way, and later openly. Some analysts say that the effectiveness of the antitank RPGs was so good that it made Iran to intervene.
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  #1250  
Old 03.05.2018, 11:22
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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I asked for reliable sources, please provide them or retract.
How about Reuters and the WaPo. And others.

Of coure there are also involuntary abuses, see for instance the Newsweek ("much of it was initially procured by the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, which transferred it to Syrian rebel forces ...").
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  #1251  
Old 03.05.2018, 11:37
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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There aren't any credible forces that are "democratic" there. Kurds were purging (re)conquered territories, and even Iraqi "democratic" gov't is disposing of its enemies without much ado neither there nor in the West.
US and their allies were giving arms to the same type people as the Assad regime, more-or-less.. That's why weapons supplied by them ended up in IS hands so quickly.
Everybody knows it is a proxy war, turning it upside down, democratic, whatever doesn't change anything in the bare truth that a proxy war can go on much, much longer than a regular one because of unlimited supplies from outside and because the incentives are then to inflict the biggest human cost possible on the other side while in typical civil war the incentives to do it are not there (because of the need to settle eventually). This dynamics of a proxy war and huge human cost of it a proven thing. It is pure cynicism to evoke any "democratic" or "humanitarian" motives.

P.S. Regarding the amount of US arms, first they were sending then in a concealed way, and later openly. Some analysts say that the effectiveness of the antitank RPGs was so good that it made Iran to intervene.
Democratic forces - there are some democratic forces in Arab countries. They are small, weak and don't enjoy the support of most Arabs. Politics is still tribal.

Iran & Russia intervend becasue Assad's forces were collapsing. Will Syria turn into their Afghanistan/Vietnam ? it's possible. Assad maybe seen as the lesser evil, but this could change.
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  #1252  
Old 06.05.2018, 21:22
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Iran & Russia intervend becasue Assad's forces were collapsing. Will Syria turn into their Afghanistan/Vietnam ? it's possible. Assad maybe seen as the lesser evil, but this could change.
Assad forces were collapsing because of modern anti-tank weapons delivered by USA.
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  #1253  
Old 07.05.2018, 14:21
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Assad forces were collapsing because of modern anti-tank weapons delivered by USA.
Good to know that U.S weapons are vastly superior to Russian/Chinese: if it takes the Rusian, Iranian, Syrian armies plus a lot of help from Hizbullah & Co. to beat militias who are mostly armed by russian & chinese weapons with very few U.S weapons.
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  #1254  
Old 10.05.2018, 10:25
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Fairly major attack launched by Iran on the Golan Heights yesterday, followed by a strong Israel response.

Source

Probably linked to Trump's announcement about the Iran nuclear deal and an attempt to draw the US deeper into the Syria mess.

Israel are fighting from long established military positions so probably had the advantage against Iran who are using temporary sites in Syria.

I do not suppose Assad is too enthusiastic about his country being used as a launch platform against Israel while he has so much unfinished business within Syria.
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  #1255  
Old 30.05.2018, 13:22
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Russia tells Iran to move it's forces away from the Israeli border. Iran was also told to keep it's weapons away from Syrian airports - these weapons tend to blow up unexpectedly, risking Russian personnel & hardware.

One almost feels sorry for Assad, currently reduced to a Russian vassal who is also getting contradicting orders from Mullahs in Teheran.

At least during Soviet times it was clear who gives the orders.

High time for a Druze & Kurdish states in Syria.
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  #1256  
Old 04.07.2018, 16:24
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Assad regime is taking back southern Syria, the usual way - 270,000 refugees


Very small difference - the U.N already has boots on the ground, but there are no news of the U.N actually doing something to help the refugees.
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  #1257  
Old 24.07.2018, 18:41
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Israel shoots down Syrian fighter jet it says entered Israeli airspace

Source
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  #1258  
Old 18.09.2018, 10:16
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Oooppss

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Russia says military plane carrying 15 people shot down by Syrian missiles
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The anti aircraft missiles are supposed to detect friendly aircraft; probably the Russians forgot to update codes!
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