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  #1281  
Old 23.10.2019, 18:14
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

The EU can't solve the mess in Syria. It could have protected the Kurds by simply being there (exactly as the U.S did until less than a month ago), but didn't. It's called deterrence. It doesn't always work, but soemtimes worth a try.
The Kurds, apperantly, aren't worth it. Are the Baltic countries worth it ?

European forces in Afghanistan rely heavily on U.S military.
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  #1282  
Old 24.10.2019, 08:12
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The EU can't solve the mess in Syria. It could have protected the Kurds by simply being there (exactly as the U.S did until less than a month ago), but didn't. .
The Kurds relied on USA which didn't keep their deal...is there any way in which EU could interfere now without creating an even bigger mess? Erdogan has threatened EU quite a few times. He has a large support at home and among diaspora. (weird, I know)

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The Kurds, apperantly, aren't worth it. .
I didn't say that. I only said....it's complicated.
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  #1283  
Old 24.10.2019, 08:52
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Quite a few have had a presence in Afghanistan
1. Afghanistan is not in the Middle East
2. The Afghan tribes are rarely on the same page on anything, but they mostly agree that foreign soldiers are a no-go on their land
3. The country today after being invaded, bombed, harassed, managed, coerced, etc. is not better off vs. prior to the US invasion


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The Kurds, apperantly, aren't worth it. Are the Baltic countries worth it ?
Very romantic, but very unrealistic. The Kurds don't have a state and "protecting" them would imply that EU forces are breaking international law by positioning troops in a foreign country to manage it's own internal issues. Imagine if today the EU sends troops in Barcelona to protect the Catalans vs. the police that is being sent by the Madrid government? And please don't portray the Kurds as some sort of angels that are surrounded by devils. Just remember that they were the main executors of the Armenian genocide in Turkey.
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  #1284  
Old 24.10.2019, 10:20
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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1. Afghanistan is not in the Middle East
That depends on which usage you rely on. From a Swiss POV it is, from a British it probably isn't.
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  #1285  
Old 24.10.2019, 10:24
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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1. Afghanistan is not in the Middle East
2. The Afghan tribes are rarely on the same page on anything, but they mostly agree that foreign soldiers are a no-go on their land
3. The country today after being invaded, bombed, harassed, managed, coerced, etc. is not better off vs. prior to the US invasion
I was replying to

You're missing the context. Apart from the UK which was foolish to join the US in the crusade in Iraq, Europe hasn't really joined these stupid wars.




1. I assumed that "these stupid wars" would include Afghanistan, which is broadly in the same area.
2,3 - I made no statement concerning anything other than the presence of other European forces in Afghanistan.
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  #1286  
Old 24.10.2019, 14:14
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Syria has been unstable since it's creation. The Kurds, for all their faults, managed to create a functioning autonomy in Brutal war with far more democracy and human rights than any of the other parts. Breaking up a country is rarely a peaceful exercise - but sometimes it's worth it.

The Kurds were not the main "executors" of the Armenian genocide. The genocide was instigated and carried out by Turkey (Ottoman empire).

Last edited by Pashosh; 24.10.2019 at 14:26.
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  #1287  
Old 24.10.2019, 15:11
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The Kurds were not the main "executors" of the Armenian genocide. The genocide was instigated and carried out by Turkey (Ottoman empire).
Read before you write, it's a golden principle.

"There is a recognition by several groups of Kurds of the participation of their ancestors in the Armenian Genocide during World War I...Also, inmates in Ottoman prisons, including Kurds and Turks, were given amnesty and released from prison if they would massacre the Armenians"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdis...enian_Genocide

The reason they were doing it is because they expected Ataturk to grant them self-governance later on, which he never promised them, but made sure they think it will be the case in order to motivate them to do the killings.
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  #1288  
Old 24.10.2019, 15:17
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Very romantic, but very unrealistic. The Kurds don't have a state and "protecting" them would imply that EU forces are breaking international law by positioning troops in a foreign country to manage it's own internal issues. Imagine if today the EU sends troops in Barcelona to protect the Catalans vs. the police that is being sent by the Madrid government? And please don't portray the Kurds as some sort of angels that are surrounded by devils. Just remember that they were the main executors of the Armenian genocide in Turkey.
Spain is a functioning state.

Syria, and probably Iraq at least to some extent, look much more like ex-Yugoslavia 20-30 years ago.
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  #1289  
Old 24.10.2019, 15:33
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Read before you write, it's a golden principle.

"There is a recognition by several groups of Kurds of the participation of their ancestors in the Armenian Genocide during World War I...Also, inmates in Ottoman prisons, including Kurds and Turks, were given amnesty and released from prison if they would massacre the Armenians"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdis...enian_Genocide

The reason they were doing it is because they expected Ataturk to grant them self-governance later on, which he never promised them, but made sure they think it will be the case in order to motivate them to do the killings.
Kurds participated in the Turkish instigated Genocide.
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  #1290  
Old 24.10.2019, 15:41
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Read before you write, it's a golden principle.

"There is a recognition by several groups of Kurds of the participation of their ancestors in the Armenian Genocide during World War I...Also, inmates in Ottoman prisons, including Kurds and Turks, were given amnesty and released from prison if they would massacre the Armenians"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdis...enian_Genocide

The reason they were doing it is because they expected Ataturk to grant them self-governance later on, which he never promised them, but made sure they think it will be the case in order to motivate them to do the killings.
Pashosh wrote "The Kurds were not the main "executors" of the Armenian genocide." Nothing in your link contradicts that.

From your link "Some Kurdish tribes participated in massacres of Armenians. Other Kurds opposed the genocide".

Anyway, none of those Kurds are alive today so this is not an argument to support the US abandoning their allies to the Turks.
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  #1291  
Old 24.10.2019, 16:26
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Anyway, none of those Kurds are alive today so this is not an argument to support the US abandoning their allies to the Turks.
Which I don't support in any shape of form. I only contradicted his attempt to portray the Kurds as some mythical creatures that were the only ones that had democracy, womens rights, etc. in the area, which is clearly not true. In that area everyone has a sin and everyone has a reason to hate everyone else.
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  #1292  
Old 24.10.2019, 16:33
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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Which I don't support in any shape of form. I only contradicted his attempt to portray the Kurds as some mythical creatures that were the only ones that had democracy, womens rights, etc. in the area, which is clearly not true. In that area everyone has a sin and everyone has a reason to hate everyone else.
No. You said the Kurds "were the main executors of the Armenian genocide in Turkey" which is false.

Which other part of Syria has democarcy & women's rights similar to what the Kurds have (had?) ?
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  #1293  
Old 24.10.2019, 17:06
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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............................. In that area everyone has a sin and everyone has a reason to hate everyone else.
No different from Europe then!
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  #1294  
Old 24.10.2019, 19:05
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

No organization (read EU, NATO, what-have-you) can be trusted to be there every time they're really needed. Just look at Bosnia during the Sarajevo siege/Srebrenica massacre, Ukraine, or Syria. Unfortunately, guilty past or not, international groups are becoming less involved in regional conflicts.
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  #1295  
Old 24.10.2019, 19:53
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The Kurds relied on USA which didn't keep their deal...is there any way in which EU could interfere now without creating an even bigger mess? Erdogan has threatened EU quite a few times. He has a large support at home and among diaspora. (weird, I know)

I didn't say that. I only said....it's complicated.
This time Erdogan said if the EU interfered he would send them 2 million Syrian refugees!
Similar to Gadaffi's threats about sending Sub Saharan Africans to Europe which has actually been happening since his death.
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  #1296  
Old 25.10.2019, 19:49
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Glad to seemTrump and co. want to guard the Syrian oilfields. Pity about their Kurdish allies though ...
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  #1297  
Old 20.11.2019, 10:24
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

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The Israeli military said it struck dozens of targets in Syria belonging to Iranian forces and the Syrian regime in the predawn hours of Wednesday morning, in response to four rockets that were fired at Israel the day before.
Source

This just proves the situation is not improving as some claimed. I wonder if the US Congress will have time to consider this?
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  #1298  
Old 03.02.2020, 14:58
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

The mess just gets worse
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Six Turkish soldiers and at least 13 Syrian government troops have been killed as the two sides traded fire in Syria’s Idlib province,
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Turkey told Russia not to stand in way in Syria's Idlib
Source

Everybody fighting everybody else with no end in sight.
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  #1299  
Old 03.02.2020, 20:31
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

From Southfront:

https://southfront.org/wp-content/up...03_02_2020.mp4
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  #1300  
Old 15.02.2020, 09:43
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Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

A second Syrian military helicopter has been shot down this week over the last major rebel bastion in the northwest of Syria.

Big escalation as the US and its allies always refused to give the rebels anti-aircraft missiles.
Most likely these were Turkish missiles, less likely to have been Russian. Probably fired by Turkish supported rebels to give Turkey "deniability".
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