Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 01.06.2011, 09:44
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,209
Groaned at 88 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post

(...)
So what is the positive side of Assad's regime ?

(...)
I need to chew everything for you: never mentioned positive aspect of Assad regime; i mentioned positive/negative aspects of tunisian/egyptian/lybian/syrian revolution (i.e. new freedom vs. army handling virgin women).
If you still believe that I see a positive side in the Assad regime then there is no hope in your case and declare you incurable.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 01.06.2011, 09:44
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
If you compare tunisian and egyptian revolution, you'll see that there is no one single charismatic leader. It's a real mass movement. They have also in common a central victim of the system as symbol to fuel their energy in removing the regime (Bouazizi in Tunisia, Khalid Said in Egypt).....so is hamza the symbol of syrian revolution?
That may be. "Charismatic leaders" in reality are rather rare. Ahmed Ben Bella got toppled in 1965 and Houari Boumedične was not charismatic at all but a Technocrat. And while Habib Bourguiba and Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat WERE charismatic, Ben Ali and Mubarak were "apparatchiks". Much so also in case of Dr Assad in Damascus, and also Saddam Hussein. The only man with some charisma "east of Suez" is King Abdullah al-Hussein in Jordan.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 01.06.2011, 09:56
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,209
Groaned at 88 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
That may be. "Charismatic leaders" in reality are rather rare. Ahmed Ben Bella got toppled in 1965 and Houari Boumedične was not charismatic at all but a Technocrat. And while Habib Bourguiba and Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat WERE charismatic, Ben Ali and Mubarak were "apparatchiks". Much so also in case of Dr Assad in Damascus, and also Saddam Hussein. The only man with some charisma "east of Suez" is King Abdullah al-Hussein in Jordan.
the young people in Tahrir squar or Tunis streets do not know these "independence leaders". The movement today in the street has no charismatic leader, I see it as a chance and a risk as well. How is the transition going to take place? Same applies to syria.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 01.06.2011, 10:11
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 432
Groaned at 172 Times in 127 Posts
Thanked 1,627 Times in 880 Posts
Pashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeable
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
I need to chew everything for you: never mentioned positive aspect of Assad regime; i mentioned positive/negative aspects of tunisian/egyptian/lybian/syrian revolution (i.e. new freedom vs. army handling virgin women).
If you still believe that I see a positive side in the Assad regime then there is no hope in your case and declare you incurable.
Funny - you brought up the IDF treatment of terrorists/rioters as if it has anything to do with the Syrian police treatment of kids.

It took you more than a month to join this discussion - apparently the deaths were not so interesting until you saw the videos.

Who knows- maybe the next regime in Syria will be more brutal than the Assad's. It's very likely that Mubarak's regime will be considered benign if the Muslims brothers will rule.

Anyway - Assad's end is hopefully fast approaching.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 01.06.2011, 14:56
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post

Anyway - Assad's end is hopefully fast approaching.
This may be so or not. Clear is that he only can continue with a heavy hand, and has clearly lost the support of a majority of people.

So that he now also is in danger from INSIDE the regime, as some chaps in higher echelons may think about a more flamboyant and more charismatic man for the top role. A person able to win back popular support.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 01.06.2011, 15:34
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 432
Groaned at 172 Times in 127 Posts
Thanked 1,627 Times in 880 Posts
Pashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeable
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
This may be so or not. Clear is that he only can continue with a heavy hand, and has clearly lost the support of a majority of people.

So that he now also is in danger from INSIDE the regime, as some chaps in higher echelons may think about a more flamboyant and more charismatic man for the top role. A person able to win back popular support.
What, there will not be democratic elections, followed by a liberal regime with milk and cookies for all ?

This must come as a shock to Mr. Vertigo who still believes that these revolutions are all about democracy.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 01.06.2011, 16:10
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
jean1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

I found the thread interesting. I think USA and Israel will be happy to keep the ASAD regime. It is a safe regime for them (Assad didn't fight at all Israel in order to get back the Gholan). The next regime will be more dangerous for them. Look for ex. to egypt, USA wanted to keep the Mubarak regime. Now, it will be risky for them i.e. the border between ghaza and egypt is open to all.
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 01.06.2011, 16:32
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 432
Groaned at 172 Times in 127 Posts
Thanked 1,627 Times in 880 Posts
Pashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeable
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
I found the thread interesting. I think USA and Israel will be happy to keep the ASAD regime. It is a safe regime for them (Assad didn't fight at all Israel in order to get back the Gholan). The next regime will be more dangerous for them. Look for ex. to egypt, USA wanted to keep the Mubarak regime. Now, it will be risky for them i.e. the border between ghaza and egypt is open to all.
And the new regime will fight Israel for the Golan ? maybe it will fight Turkey for the Tai ?

Which weapons will the new regime use ? The Israeli army is better armed then the protestors the Syrian army is massacring as we speak.
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 01.06.2011, 16:37
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
jean1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
And the new regime will fight Israel for the Golan ? maybe it will fight Turkey for the Tai ?

Which weapons will the new regime use ? The Israeli army is better armed then the protestors the Syrian army is massacring as we speak.
You don't need high tech weapons in order to destabilize israel..only few missiles can make the mess...look what happened in lebanon in 2006...Any way, I think the best is to keep syrian people ALONE decide what they want...Take egyptians like an example...In syria the demonstrations in all syria are less than 100 000 persons...
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 01.06.2011, 16:43
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 432
Groaned at 172 Times in 127 Posts
Thanked 1,627 Times in 880 Posts
Pashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeable
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
You don't need high tech weapons in order to destabilize israel..only few missiles can make the mess...look what happened in lebanon in 2006...Any way, I think the best is to keep syrian people ALONE decide what they want...Take egyptians like an example...In syria the demonstrations in all syria are less than 100 000 persons...
A few missiles will make a mess in Israel - but Israeli artillery is currently within range of Damascus. or shall I say Dahia 2 ?



I hope that new Syrian regime will be more peaceful than the current one and will have Syrian people's interest in mind, instead of military "honor" adventures.
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 01.06.2011, 16:50
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
jean1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
A few missiles will make a mess in Israel - but Israeli artillery is currently within range of Damascus. or shall I say Dahia 2 ?
I hope that new Syrian regime will be more peaceful than the current one and will have Syrian people's interest in mind, instead of military "honor" adventures.
destroying and erasing villages are not the solution! Anyway, it is sad to see how the destruction is big in this poor region...Now Hezbollah is more powerful than before!! so what was the result of all these destruction...only thousands of civilians were dead!!!
Don't make war, make love
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:00
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 432
Groaned at 172 Times in 127 Posts
Thanked 1,627 Times in 880 Posts
Pashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeable
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
destroying and erasing villages are not the solution! Anyway, it is sad to see how the destruction is big in this poor region...Now Hezbollah is more powerful than before!! so what was the result of all these destruction...only thousands of civilians were dead!!!
Don't make war, make love
Please make up your mind - do you think it will be wise of Syria to fire "a few missile to destabilize Israel" or not ?
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:00
hoppy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
That may be. "Charismatic leaders" in reality are rather rare. Ahmed Ben Bella got toppled in 1965 and Houari Boumedične was not charismatic at all but a Technocrat. And while Habib Bourguiba and Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat WERE charismatic, Ben Ali and Mubarak were "apparatchiks". Much so also in case of Dr Assad in Damascus, and also Saddam Hussein. The only man with some charisma "east of Suez" is King Abdullah al-Hussein in Jordan.
To whom do these leaders need to appeal in terms of charisma?
We are entrenched in a western perspective, our views educated by a western media. Th western powers are serious in their efforts to maintain a grip on the Middle East, much of this is cloaked in a veil of concern for human rights. As the counterpunch link that I posted above illustrates. As long as the west tries to impose 'charismatic leaders' whom they believe will be suppliant to western businesses, then there will be no change. The countries will churn in turmoil, atrocities will continue to take place and corruption will be rife. But keeping a country in a state of turmoil may be preferable to some when faced with the alterntive.

What the middle eastern people need to do is find a leader whose charisma is formed from the respect that they have earned from the people of the country- forget world-wide charisma. Also its about time that women were more included- why are all these ' charismatic leaders' male? A Modern Muslim woman would be the most potent symbol. Alhamdulilah!

We criticize these Arab countries (Pashosh of course is most vehement, because he fears the consequences for Israel) . We forget the time it took for countries to reform after the fall of the iron curtain. Indeed some are actually turning full circle and choosing leaders that they had before the fall of the curtain. How many years is it from when the wall came down? Did the west criticize the amount of time it was taking and predict that these people didn't know what they were doing and were doomed to failure simply because they didn't get it right straight away? No!
So these countries should be allowed time..

The other fallacy is that these revolutions can be mapped or controlled by the internet. No-one can predict. People are natural beings, they morph and evolve. As much as we would like we may try to control, but can not predict the way of revolution.

I am obsessed at present with the influence of Qatar, the Qatar national bank and their relationship with China.
what is China's role in all of this? How does it stand to gain or lose?
My understanding is really basic, so I would appreciate anyone's comment even Pashosh's. (Pashosh is not an idiot, he is simply scared his whole world and perhaps identity is under threat.) But my question is that China is building up it's influence wherever it can Africa, Caucuses and Central Asia the Far East and Middle east. All of these countries are seeing the spread or reemergence of Islam. Both will be fighting for resources to support their growth- won't they knock heads eventually?
China sells products to the US and the US owes China, suppose Islam spreads to China? It seems like the Chinese agricultural farmers are ripe for change. Al Qaeda had the wrong target!

Russia will not lose out. Iran is playing a very clever game, they will continue to maintain relations with China and Russia. I wonder though what will happen with the Russian base in Syria. I guess that Obama and Putin are trying to work that out.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 15
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
jean1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Please make up your mind - do you think it will be wise of Syria to fire "a few missile to destabilize Israel" or not ?
Yes if Assad regime feels in danger, the only exit is a war...or even if Assad looses the control, a lot of unknown people can send missiles to israel..for ex. palstenian..or Qaida...
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:10
hoppy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
A few missiles will make a mess in Israel - but Israeli artillery is currently within range of Damascus. or shall I say Dahia 2 ?



I hope that new Syrian regime will be more peaceful than the current one and will have Syrian people's interest in mind, instead of military "honor" adventures.
I hope that no-on here is condoning war.
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:42
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 432
Groaned at 172 Times in 127 Posts
Thanked 1,627 Times in 880 Posts
Pashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeablePashosh is considered knowledgeable
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
Yes if Assad regime feels in danger, the only exit is a war...or even if Assad looses the control, a lot of unknown people can send missiles to israel..for ex. palstenian..or Qaida...
If Assad doesn't feel the danger by now, he must be on very strong medication.

A war against Israel will be devastating for Syria. that's why his father and him didn't start one for almost 40 years.

Meanwhile - Assad is still butchering his people.
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:51
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
What, there will not be democratic elections, followed by a liberal regime with milk and cookies for all ?

This must come as a shock to Mr. Vertigo who still believes that these revolutions are all about democracy.
Most Syrians for sure wish democracy to be installed, BUT the likelihood is rather more a Coup-d'Etat YES, these revolutions (Tunisia, Egypt, Syria) are about democracy. In case of Yemen I am not so sure in reality, as it there looks increasingly like a power-struggle among tribes and clans.

In case you think that revolutions really usually are successful look to the Republic of Spain of the 1930ies, or farther back to the German Revolution of 1848
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 01.06.2011, 17:56
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
the young people in Tahrir squar or Tunis streets do not know these "independence leaders". The movement today in the street has no charismatic leader, I see it as a chance and a risk as well. How is the transition going to take place? Same applies to syria.
But while Tunisia and Egypt ARE IN the transition phase, Syria has not yet entered this phase. In Egypt, there will be parliamentary elections in early autumn and presidential elections in late autumn. Best placed presidential candidate is Amr Moussa, the Secretary General of the Arab League. Mr el-Baradei may have some chances but has been in Vienna a bit too long.
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 01.06.2011, 18:00
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
And the new regime will fight Israel for the Golan ? maybe it will fight Turkey for the Tai ?

Which weapons will the new regime use ? The Israeli army is better armed then the protestors the Syrian army is massacring as we speak.
Any new government in Syria will swiftly realize that there is neither a chance to regain the Golan militarily nor the reconquer the Sandchak of Iskanderiya (Alexandrette). And to turn against Jordan with its small but well armed and trained armed forces is no option either. So that whatever government will come after Dr Assad, it has to behave peacefully for its own good.
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 01.06.2011, 18:18
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Syria - It ain't over till it's over

Quote:
View Post
You don't need high tech weapons in order to destabilize israel..only few missiles can make the mess...look what happened in lebanon in 2006...Any way, I think the best is to keep syrian people ALONE decide what they want...Take egyptians like an example...In syria the demonstrations in all syria are less than 100 000 persons...
A) to compare Syria with Egypt is a bit difficult as Syria has some 23 mio. inhabitants but Egypt more than 80 mio.

B) you mention 2006. BUT ignore the fact that it was NOT the Lebanese army who sent out those rockets but a Militia with just some regional strongholds, and they did not have the support of the Lebanese government. There in Syria is no indication that a regional militia of sorts could break away from the Syrian army

C) the Syrians ARE kept alone, possibly even a bit too much. But many long-term informed people have the man who was in power before Hafez al-Assad still in memory, Dr Nureddin el-Attassi, who enjoyed the nickname "children's doctor of the devil" reflecting both his original profession and his pastime, which was public executions on public squares in Damascus
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Offering: Private Apartment in St. Gallen from 20.03.10 till 10.04.10 jttraveller Property wanted 0 16.01.2010 19:10
FLATshare/RoomShare - anywhere in CH till 30 Sept thick_guy_9 Property wanted 0 27.08.2009 15:19
Flat in basel just for 2 month till novamber? hamdi Property wanted 0 26.08.2008 18:42
Anyone else experiencing roadworks going on till late? argus Complaints corner 12 08.08.2008 14:59
For Sale till next saturday Anton Items for sale 11 11.01.2008 13:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0