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Old 12.04.2011, 01:17
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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why were the british so nice to iceland over the cod wars? if i were in charge, iceland would now be a province of the UK.
We liked Mastermind with Magnus Magnesson. That and you can't really get patriotic about a Destroyer sinking a fishing trawler. The Belgrano, yes. Captain Birdseye....Nah...
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Old 12.04.2011, 08:02
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Nothing to do with the above, they all (except Spain so far) enjoyed a bailing out with EU funds that saved a collapse of their economies.
Really?
From my understanding the Greek economy is still collapsing and there will be some haircut of the debt in the next few years. This will mean that European taxpayers money will be lost, while the private banks who gave the stupid greedy loans to the Greek government will have lost nothing. Very smart move from the E.U.

And by the way, countries like Greece are supposed to get more expensive loans than Germany because the banks acknowledge that at some point they might not be able to pay back. If the banks know that no matter what, they will get their money because the E.U. will "save" Greece, then why the heck should they lend Greece with higher interest rates?

So to get back to the point, a big congrats to the Icelanders from me, this IS a day to be proud of.
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  #63  
Old 12.04.2011, 08:11
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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It was a private bank.

Just for the records, it's was not a vote about not paying at all and that UK/NL won't get a cent, it's a question of how much we should pay, how high interests rates, etc.



Personally I didn't vote, because I'm not sure what is right or wrong anymore.
Is it fair for anyone to pay this? No! Not for Icelandic nor for UK/NL taxpayers.
I don't want us to be labeled as international douchebags, but I also want to stay on the realistic side of how much the country actually can pay without collapsing.
So, I'm leaning on that it would just be for the best to take this international court to find out what our legal responsibility is. Until now, I think it has been very unclear for everyone.
It is quite strange the Icelandic story what I find even more strange no body was asking where the money is coming from when times were good for example. Nobody asked why the prices were so highly inflated in Iceland to begin with. If you think switzerland is expensive you should live in Iceland 6 beers from a grocery shop would cost you 16 euros. It seems the nobody asked where all this money was coming from and with half an ounce of brain you could see the country was not sustainable.
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Old 12.04.2011, 09:05
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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How about a population that relies on something other than fish thievery, money thievery and bank multipliers to earn money. Can't they actually create something
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Old 12.04.2011, 11:54
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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It is quite strange the Icelandic story what I find even more strange no body was asking where the money is coming from when times were good for example. Nobody asked why the prices were so highly inflated in Iceland to begin with. If you think switzerland is expensive you should live in Iceland 6 beers from a grocery shop would cost you 16 euros. It seems the nobody asked where all this money was coming from and with half an ounce of brain you could see the country was not sustainable.
This is like this in general in all the Scandinavian countries. High taxes and high prices. Bless the social system, erh...
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Old 12.04.2011, 11:58
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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It is quite strange the Icelandic story what I find even more strange no body was asking where the money is coming from when times were good for example. Nobody asked why the prices were so highly inflated in Iceland to begin with. If you think switzerland is expensive you should live in Iceland 6 beers from a grocery shop would cost you 16 euros. It seems the nobody asked where all this money was coming from and with half an ounce of brain you could see the country was not sustainable.
This is a problem with all of us, not just the icicles. When times are good, we borrow money, buy property, get rich, and credit ourselves with our ingenuity. When times are tough we moan that the banks did it to us, that they shouldn't have lent us all that money, that it wasn't our fault, that we didn't understand and weren't told.
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  #67  
Old 12.04.2011, 12:17
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

Just an addendum, it's important to realise that Iceland, Ireland and to a lesser extent all other countries, wouldn't have become rich in the first place without bank liquidity-creating magic tricks. The bank haven't made people poor, they've just removed some of the wealth they created in the first place. Think about it: Iceland has some cod. The UK can make incredibly bad cars. These countries wouldn't have a great quality of life/wealth without the banking sector anyway.
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Old 12.04.2011, 12:40
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Just an addendum, it's important to realise that Iceland, Ireland and to a lesser extent all other countries, wouldn't have become rich in the first place without bank liquidity-creating magic tricks. The bank haven't made people poor, they've just removed some of the wealth they created in the first place. Think about it: Iceland has some cod. The UK can make incredibly bad cars. These countries wouldn't have a great quality of life/wealth without the banking sector anyway.

This is where the issue stems banking creates no real wealth it might aswell be magic beans. All smoke and mirrors.

So when you say the UK has nothing to fall back on you're right and this needs addressing ASAP. Although this has been discussed before.

Again watch this series to understand why banking is doomed to fail time and time again! It's an excellent series.

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Old 12.04.2011, 12:44
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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This is where the issue stems banking creates no real wealth it might aswell be magic beans. All smoke and mirrors.

So when you say the UK has nothing to fall back on you're right and this needs addressing ASAP. Although this has been discussed before.

Again watch this series to understand why banking is doomed to fail time and time again! It's an excellent series.
financial services create as much wealth as anything else. doesn't matter if the product is tangible like an automobile or not. granted it's a lot more difficult to quantify than being able to point to a million refrigerators.
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Old 12.04.2011, 12:55
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Good question. Given the size of the Icelandic banks' combined deposits relative to the country's GDP, you'd have thought somebody at the FSA/Treasury would've asked a few questions would't you? After all there were enough warning calls and they're the ones responsible for handing out UK banking licences.

I remember there were some comments made at the time that the Treasury and UK regulators were too complacent about alarm bells ringing over the worsening financial status of Iceland's banks. Criticism was made that they didn't look beyond the fact of Iceland's deposit guarantee scheme to check whether it was adequately funded. ie they took form over substance.
Frankly if the UK govt had a clue, they would be worrying about their own banks. The recent Independent () Commission's report completely ignores the threat from the likes of Barclays, whose balance sheet is the size of the UK's entire GDP. Does anyone frankly think these banks would up and leave???
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Old 12.04.2011, 12:57
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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financial services create as much wealth as anything else. doesn't matter if the product is tangible like an automobile or not. granted it's a lot more difficult to quantify than being able to point to a million refrigerators.
Banks do not hold/create actual tangable assets. (Gold, Silver, Property etc) for every figure they have in their computers, i.e. magic money.

People forget banks can lend vast amounts over physical holdings. Loans made to customers do not have to be held in the vault. The money is created from nothing.

The only institutions I know of that can create "magic money" from nothing. Everyone else has to produce a physical item.

Part 2 of the series. Why + how banks can create magic beans.

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  #72  
Old 12.04.2011, 12:59
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Banks do not hold/create actual tangable assets. (Gold, Silver, Property etc) for every figure they have in their computers
who cares if it is not tangible. the rights to songs and the apple logo are not tangible either, but they are still valuable and worth something.
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Old 12.04.2011, 13:03
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Simply put, that bank that is bailed out is probably holding many pensioners savings, normal peoples day to day finances, and will create infinitely more havoc than saving it with a guarantee of tax payers money.
This argument is often rolled out to justify governments intervening and distorting the market.

But seeing they're going to throw the money out anyway, why not bypass the bank and give it straight to the pensioners?
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Old 12.04.2011, 13:03
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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who cares if it is not tangible. the rights to songs and the apple logo are not tangible either, but they are still valuable and worth something.
You should care, because if they are not tangible it means the system has to collapse at sometime by very nature.

The apple logo is not comparable/music. It's a physical item with value. It has been created and has worth.

Magic beans created on a computer is not the same.

Part 3 of the series. (Explains Principle + Interest problem and answers your question)

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Old 12.04.2011, 13:04
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Banks do not hold/create actual tangable assets. (Gold, Silver, Property etc) for every figure they have in their computers, i.e. magic money.
Sorry mate, you couldn't be more wrong. We've had this weirdness before on this forum and I couldn't quite believe it then either. It stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tangible asset is, and what actual value is. And the fact that you think Gold has "real" value and not "fiat value" is just stunning. You are also getting mixed about between money and wealth and misunderstanding that far from one representing the other, they are in fact opposites in that they run counter to each other nominally - lots of money means each unit is worth proportionately less. This is usually a good thing - it creates liquidity. If we just had a single Frank that would represent all wealth in Switzerland but could only be owned by one person, thereby eliminating all liquidity/trade and making everyone incredibly poor. If we had just gold, there would be a finite amount of the stuff so while people would be richer than in the fabled land of the single coin, they'd still be poor - trade would be harder because there'd be few coins to do all the transactions needed. This actually happened and it's why the world suddenly got much richer when the gold standard was dropped - it restricted the supply of money. Banks and banking practices create almost all wealth - it's about creating the conduits to move the money around. Money that's still is worth nothing, money in motion can be worth an infinite amount.
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Old 12.04.2011, 13:18
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Sorry mate, you couldn't be more wrong. We've had this weirdness before on this forum and I couldn't quite believe it then either. It stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tangible asset is, and what actual value is. And the fact that you think Gold has "real" value and not "fiat value" is just stunning. You are also getting mixed about between money and wealth and misunderstanding that far from one representing the other, they are in fact opposites in that they run counter to each other nominally - lots of money means each unit is worth proportionately less. This is usually a good thing - it creates liquidity. If we just had a single Frank that would represent all wealth in Switzerland but could only be owned by one person, thereby eliminating all liquidity/trade and making everyone incredibly poor. If we had just gold, there would be a finite amount of the stuff so while people would be richer than in the fabled land of the single coin, they'd still be poor - trade would be harder because there'd be few coins to do all the transactions needed. This actually happened and it's why the world suddenly got much richer when the gold standard was dropped - it restricted the supply of money. Banks and banking practices create almost all wealth - it's about creating the conduits to move the money around. Money that's still is worth nothing, money in motion can be worth an infinite amount.
No people wouldn't be poor, they would trade for actual items of real worth like they have done for thousands of years previously to the banks taking over. Addiction to money is the problem.

Did the world get much richer? Erm I think the banks got much richer.

The problem is and I agree we've become stuck on the teet of the banks fed their BS for years whilst they manipulate the money system for their own needs.

There are no safety nets to ensure the money supply is controlled on behalf of the people and not the banks. Which means they have us by the throat, and leads to the recent problems we have seen.

Did you actually bother watching the series? (Part 4)



What's more worrying is an infinite money supply is directly linked to natural resources required to service that (magic bean) bank debt. Hence more money loaned/created = more damage to the environment.
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Old 12.04.2011, 13:23
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Banks and banking practices create almost all wealth - it's about creating the conduits to move the money around. Money that's still is worth nothing, money in motion can be worth an infinite amount.
Banks create debt not wealth.

Wealth can only be created by a physical act of obtaining a real item.

In this day and age there are other alternatives to paper money.

'Wealth' refers to some accumulation of resources, whether abundant or not.
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:14
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Banks create debt not wealth.

Wealth can only be created by a physical act of obtaining a real item.

In this day and age there are other alternatives to paper money.

'Wealth' refers to some accumulation of resources, whether abundant or not.
Bread and cheese cannot be readily accumulated, only money which can then be exchanged for these things at a later date.
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:21
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Magic beans created on a computer is not the same.
less hyperbole and more hard facts might help your argument and make you appear less of a tin foil nutcase.
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:39
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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This is like this in general in all the Scandinavian countries. High taxes and high prices. Bless the social system, erh...
Actually not sweden, finland and denmark are not that expensive only norge and iceland have that trait.
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