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  #81  
Old 12.04.2011, 14:45
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Actually not sweden, finland and denmark are not that expensive only norge and iceland have that trait.
Try buying wine in Sweden, it's 2-3X Swiss prices, same with veal (if you can even find it).

Tom
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  #82  
Old 12.04.2011, 14:48
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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cheese cannot be readily accumulated
I have several fridges full of cheeses of unknown age (and sometimes type) that prove this statement to be absurd!

Tom
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  #83  
Old 12.04.2011, 14:49
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Try buying wine in Sweden, it's 2-3X Swiss prices, same with veal (if you can even find it).

Tom
Depends which wine you buy from the systembolaget go for the cheapie stuff 10kr
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  #84  
Old 12.04.2011, 14:49
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

Tongue in cheek and yet strangely relevant at the same time

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/b...-201103083606/
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  #85  
Old 12.04.2011, 14:51
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Depends which wine you buy from the systembolaget go the cheapie stuff 10kr
I was comparing known wines that I knew the Swiss prices of when I was there, though perhaps they've dropped prices in the past 2-3 years.

Tom
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:52
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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less hyperbole and more hard facts might help your argument and make you appear less of a tin foil nutcase.
Here you go..."Magic Beans"

Fractional-reserve banking is the banking practice in which only a fraction of a bank's deposits are kept as reserves (cash and other highly liquid assets) available for withdrawal. The bank lends out some or most of the deposited funds, while still allowing[citation needed] all[citation needed] deposits to be withdrawn upon demand. Fractional reserve banking is practiced by all modern commercial banks.
When cash is deposited with a bank, only a fraction is retained as reserves and the remainder can be loaned out (or spent by the bank to buy securities). The money lent or spent in this way is subsequently deposited with another bank, creating new deposits and enabling new lending. The lending, re-depositing and re-lending of funds expands the money supply (cash and demand deposits) of a country. Due to the prevalence of fractional reserve banking, the broad money supply of most countries is a multiple larger than the amount of base money created by the country's central bank. This multiple (called the money multiplier) is determined by the reserve requirement or other financial ratio requirements imposed by financial regulators, and by the excess reserves kept by commercial banks.
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:57
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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I have several fridges full of cheeses of unknown age (and sometimes type) that prove this statement to be absurd!

Tom
And could Bill Gates practically transfer his wealth to Brie-form? Go groan someone else hick farmer.
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  #88  
Old 12.04.2011, 15:04
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

Start at pg 115

http://mises.org/books/desoto.pdf
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Old 12.04.2011, 15:15
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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And could Bill Gates practically transfer his wealth to Brie-form? Go groan someone else hick farmer.
I dunno you'd be pretty f'd without farmers, what would you do eat 100 dollar bills?
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Old 12.04.2011, 15:17
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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And could Bill Gates practically transfer his wealth to Brie-form? Go groan someone else hick farmer.
That reminds me, I've got to go till the back 40 so I can put in my chiles next month.

Tom
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  #91  
Old 12.04.2011, 15:19
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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I dunno you'd be pretty f'd without farmers, what would you do eat 100 dollar bills?
I'd grow me own. I think farmers would be pretty f'd without the finance system. Did you know the Option was invented by Japanese rice farmers to offset good years against bad. Finance and farming are perfect bedfellows.
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Old 12.04.2011, 15:22
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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I'd grow me own. I think farmers would be pretty f'd without the finance system. Did you know the Option was invented by Japanese rice farmers to offset good years against bad. Finance and farming are perfect bedfellows.
Yes I had heard that before, although if I had to choose who lives and who dies, I'd rather shoot the banker first.
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Old 12.04.2011, 15:23
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

i want to post in this thread but i'm daunted by enormity of the task of explaining how money/banks/economics works as prerequisite to having any sort of intelligence conversation not undermined by internet conspiracy theories so instead i will ignore it.
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Old 12.04.2011, 15:25
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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i want to post in this thread but i'm daunted by enormity of the task of explaining how money/banks/economics works as prerequisite to having any sort of intelligence conversation not undermined by internet conspiracy theories so instead i will ignore it.
So you should post, so tell me how fractional reserve banking is a conspiracy theory?
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Old 12.04.2011, 15:39
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Actually not sweden, finland and denmark are not that expensive only norge and iceland have that trait.
of those three only been in DK - drinks pretty expensive

Last edited by panda; 12.04.2011 at 16:31. Reason: silly wording first time round
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Old 12.04.2011, 16:10
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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Here you go..."Magic Beans"

When cash is deposited with a bank, only a fraction is retained as reserves and the remainder can be loaned out (or spent by the bank to buy securities).
It doesn't mention magic beans there. Nor have I seen magic beans mentioned in the balance sheet of any major financial financial institution.

It amazes me that some people find it remarkable that banks only have to hold a fraction of the deposits as reserves. If they had to hold 100% of deposits as reserves, they would have nothing to lend out! You can tell when someone totally mis-understands FRB when they claim that banks "create money out of thin air!!!!111zomg!!!"

EDIT: if you want 100% reserve banking, this already exists: just get a safe deposit box and stick your cash in there.
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Old 12.04.2011, 17:30
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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It doesn't mention magic beans there. Nor have I seen magic beans mentioned in the balance sheet of any major financial financial institution.

It amazes me that some people find it remarkable that banks only have to hold a fraction of the deposits as reserves. If they had to hold 100% of deposits as reserves, they would have nothing to lend out! You can tell when someone totally mis-understands FRB when they claim that banks "create money out of thin air!!!!111zomg!!!"

EDIT: if you want 100% reserve banking, this already exists: just get a safe deposit box and stick your cash in there.
Let me get this right...feel free to correct me. I'm not amazed that they don't hold reserves to the amount in deposit, maybe some people but not me. I understand FRB.

An individual loans money to the bank in the form of a deposit, the bank in then free to create loans to the X of that value, lets assume X = 10.

So if I deposit 1000chf in my bank the bank in turn can loan out 10000chf to individuals that require loans. This is "magic beans(1)" the physical deposit does not exist in the first place to match the loaned amount. (We'll ignore deposit multiplication for the moment which can increase that amount exponentially)

Secondly lets assume the bank is a nice bank and pays me some interest on my loan to them at a small rate. I'm happy as I make chfs on my deposit.

Now how much money do you think the bank can then make against the loans they have created from non existant money? Yup you guessed it a lot more than I can with my loan to the bank. "Magic Beans (2)"

Lets take this a little further, in most banks that reserve requirement /capital reserve requirement (multiplier) to protect the banks against over stretching is pretty dubious to say the least. The larger the multiplier the more the banks make.

I don't know any business process that works in this way.

What's interesting is that there is only a finite amount of cash available in the "real world" to service the loan debts and eventually as that "real world" pot shrinks more and more people fight over the funds and eventually something has to give. As it did recently.

So the problem is not the banking system par-say (even though everyone loves to bash a banker) it's the greed, safety rules and mechanisms that are not place and largely unchecked business practices.

The multipliers need to be lower to allow more stability and long term thinking. Yes it will reduce money flow, but is an inifite supply of cash a good thing? Perhaps people should save more before wacking it on a cc.

Central banks should remain in the Public domain and not in the hands of bankers (such as the Bank of England) These are the ultimate control mechanisms.

There's been a systematic destruction of the safety ropes and it's about time someone pulled the leash and sorted it out.

No bank should be bailed out due to it's incompetency/greed especially not at the tax payers expense. They took the risk they pay for it, even if that means collapse.

When the times are good the banks need to prepare for the future like everyone else and stop looking for the next tax payer handout to fund the summer ball.

Don't even start me on banks and tax avoidance, banking charges etc etc.

"Magic Beans" are in EVERY financial institution, they are part of the system.
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Old 12.04.2011, 17:42
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

Light reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria...s_Cycle_Theory
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  #99  
Old 12.04.2011, 17:43
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

I don't really get what your argument is though - are you arguing against capitalist principles? Because I have to say, if you are, then on a very basic level you're arguing that all of us (regardless of whether our career path is financial or not) should be out of a job.

Principles aside, the reality of the situation is that we live in a capitalist society, so better get used to it or move to Libya.
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Old 12.04.2011, 17:45
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Re: Iceland votes "NO!"

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How about a population that relies on something other than fish thievery, money thievery and bank multipliers to earn money. Can't they actually create something
Err, since you asked, yes apparently so


And it's getting bigger
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