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Old 02.05.2011, 21:54
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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I'm very uneasy about this, I woke up to the sound of Obamas announcement followed by the chanting outside the white house of 'U.S.A, U.S.A.' Once upon a time the American government would covertly kill their enemies as they knew assassination wouldn't be accepted by the mainstream, now they aren't even hiding it and the crowds are cheering them on. What happened to due process?

Bin Laden hadn't been convicted in absentia of anything; if I thought he was killed in a gunfight while evading arrest I'd be more happy about this but the way it's reading is he was dragged out and shot in the head after the gunfight was over, I don't want summary execution of suspects to be part of a modern democracies arsenal.

Also worth remembering is that the US were offered Bin Laden back in 2001 if they could provide proof of his guilt to which Bush famously replied "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty".
I personally think that OBL, while undoubtedly an influence in Al Qaeda, was simply a figurehead for the American goverment, a physical target for all of the anger and outrage they felt for the pain caused by the heinous 9/11 attacks. You can't retaliate against someone with no face or name, and you can't mobilise your army against thin air... Osama with his propaganda videos and outspoken Anti-U.S/West sentiments made the perfect public target, the name they could pin all of their frustrations, fear and anger onto.

Osama denied any involvement in the 9/11 attacks... and don't you think that if he had perpetrated the grandest and most horrific terrorist attack the world had ever seen, against a country that stands for everything the Taliban and their ilk despise, that he would have held his hands up and admitted it to all of his adoring followers? Seems a little odd to me that he didn't, given that it would have been his greatest moment and culmination of all his "hard work".

There is a very interesting statement he released here denying the attacks and his reasons for doing so http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html

I think the U.S. government kept him under wraps until they were ready to release him to the public, and until the rage of the government and the American people had played out, and at a time when the U.S. are going to begin to withdraw troops from Afghanistan starting in July... what better time to do so than on the back of killing Osama. Job done, we can leave now, right?

Even if Osama is dead, there will be many more ready and perfectly willing and able to take his place. I can't personally see there being any immediate retaliation as William Hague warns... what will likely happen if anything is that terrorist cells will do what they do best; wait for thing to calm and quieten down, security to slack a little, and then strike somewhere vulnerable for maximum impact.

Of course the above thoughts and speculation are purely my own and represent nothing other than my own musings, but little of this smells right, and less of it makes sense when you view the facts pushed to us by the media.

Last edited by Chuff; 02.05.2011 at 22:35. Reason: spilling & grommor
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  #282  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:07
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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...
Even if Osama is dead, there will be many more ready and perfectly willing and able to take his place. I can't personally see there being any immediate retaliation as William Hague warns... what will likely happen if anything is that terrorist cells will do what they do best; wait for thing to calm and quieten down, security to slack a little, and then strike somewhere vulnerable for maximum impact.
...
I agree completely. They'll sit back, be patient and plan something to make those smiling, cheering Americans think again about attacking and killing one of their own.
  #283  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:11
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Osama denied any involvement in the 9/11 attacks... and don't you think that if he had perpetrated the grandest and most horrific terrorist attack the world had ever seen, against a country that stands for everything the Taliban and their ilk despise, that he would have held his hands up and admitted it to all of his adoring followers? Seems a little odd to me that he didn't.
But if that were the case, why didn't he put his hands up after 9/11, proclaim his innocence, and hand himself over to the US authorities to stand proper trial.

Instead, he took flight and evaded capture for ten years and, even at the final hour, refused to surrender. One can only imagine, assuming as you do that he was innocent, that he preferred to die as a martyr.
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  #284  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:11
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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I agree completely. They'll sit back, be patient and plan something to make those smiling, cheering Americans think again about attacking and killing one of their own.
as much as I would love to say that you are wrong I know you guys are right... Bin Laden was basically "retired" without much operational involvement..others have taken over and are acting more decentralized..
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Old 02.05.2011, 22:25
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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But if that were the case, why didn't he put his hands up after 9/11, proclaim his innocence, and hand himself over to the US authorities to stand proper trial.

Instead, he took flight and evaded capture for ten years and, even at the final hour, refused to surrender. One can only imagine, assuming as you do that he was innocent, that he preferred to die as a martyr.
Have you ever heard of our famous hotel for islamic prisoners? It's called Guantanamo Bay! Maybe THAT is why Osama decided to hide and not to surrender.
And have you heard of extreme individuals who call themselves moslems and roam free around US and UK? They call for an "islamic state" to be established in the UK!
They preach that no matter where you hear or see an american or british you should kill them! I wonder, why no one arrests them? Or why US & UK government doesn't even bother to talk about them? Why the medias doesn't mention them?
Something is very fishy about Osama and soon it will come to the surface and we will all know what and who exactly was he.
  #286  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:29
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Have you ever heard of our famous hotel for islamic prisoners? It's called Guantanamo Bay! Maybe THAT is why Osama decided to hide and not to surrender.
And have you heard of extreme individuals who call themselves moslems and roam free around US and UK? They call for an "islamic state" to be established in the UK!
They preach that no matter where you hear or see an american or british you should kill them! I wonder, why no one arrests them? Or why US & UK government doesn't even bother to talk about them? Why the medias doesn't mention them?
Something is very fishy about Osama and soon it will come to the surface and we will all know what and who exactly was he.
About "Something is very fishy about Osama "

I consider that remark in poor taste since he was buried at sea.
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  #287  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:30
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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But if that were the case, why didn't he put his hands up after 9/11, proclaim his innocence, and hand himself over to the US authorities to stand proper trial.

Instead, he took flight and evaded capture for ten years and, even at the final hour, refused to surrender. One can only imagine, assuming as you do that he was innocent, that he preferred to die as a martyr.
Are you seriously asking why a key and very vocal member of Al Qaeada didn't give himself up to the U.S. , a country that he hates and wants to see destroyed regardless of whether he organised 9/11 or not, for "proper trial" by the very country that has just been attacked and is looking for someone to take their anger out on? The idea and question is silly on about a zillion fronts.
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Old 02.05.2011, 22:34
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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I personally think that OBL, while undoubtedly an influence in Al Qaeda, was simply a figurehead for the American goverment, a physical target for all of the anger and outrage they felt for the pain caused by the heinous 9/11 attacks. You can't retaliate against someone with no face or name, and you can't mobilise your army against thin air... Osama with his propaganda videos and outspoken Anti-U.S/West sentiments made the perfect public target, the name they could pin all of their frustrations, fear and anger onto.

Osama denied any involvement in the 9/11 attacks... and don't you think that if he had perpetrated the grandest and most horrific terrorist attack the world had ever seen, against a country that stands for everything the Taliban and their ilk despise, that he would have held his hands up and admitted it to all of his adoring followers? Seems a little odd to me that he didn't.

There is a very interesting statement he released here denying the attacks and his reasons for doing so http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html

I think the U.S. government kept him under wraps until they were ready to release him to the public, and until the rage of the government and the American people had played out, and at a time when the U.S. are going to begin to withdraw troops from Afghanistan starting in July... what better time to do so than on that back of killing Osama. Job done, we can leave now, right?

Even if Osama is dead, there will be many more ready and perfectly willing and able to take his place. I can't personally see there being any immediate retaliation as William Hague warns... what will likely happen if anything is that terrorist cells will do what they do best; wait for thing to calm and quieten down, security to slack a little, and then strike somewhere vulnerable for maximum impact.

Of course the above thoughts and speculation are purely my own and represent nothing other than my own musings, but little of this smells right, and less of it makes sense when you view the facts pushed to us by the media.
I quote from the article
"Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people."

So who was it sending out the suicide bombers that killed many thousands of innocents over the years in the Middle East?
Ah - the Americans & Israelis not the Islam fundamentalists?
Do people really believe this stuff??
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Old 02.05.2011, 22:36
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Are you seriously asking why a key and very vocal member of Al Qaeada didn't give himself up to the U.S. , a country that he hates and wants to see destroyed regardless of whether he organised 9/11 or not, for "proper trial" by the very country that has just been attacked and is looking for someone to take their anger out on? The idea and question is silly on about a zillion fronts.
Maybe, but so is the assertion that he is innocent; no less preposterous in my view.
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Old 02.05.2011, 22:40
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

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We have fellow moslems in this forum and be careful because your post can hurt someone here!
Well, as we all know, the truth hurts sometimes !

Last edited by economisto; 02.05.2011 at 22:48. Reason: Your quoted "article" doesn't meet the required quality standard for debate on the English Forum.
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Old 02.05.2011, 22:43
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Old 02.05.2011, 22:47
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

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Maybe, but so is the assertion that he is innocent; no less preposterous in my view.
It's nothing like. However, lets just agree to disagree.

Last edited by economisto; 02.05.2011 at 22:49. Reason: quoted article deleted
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  #293  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:48
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

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That reads like some kind of BNP propaganda article.
Are you really sure you want to quote the whole thing?

Anyway, I've reported it. We don't need nasty crap like that on this forum.
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  #294  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:50
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

For reference, I deleted that article not as much for what was said, than for style including short-form ethnic slurs that add nothing to an argument. This is quite a high quality thread so far and it would be nice to keep it open for as long as possible.
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  #295  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:53
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

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Well, as we all know, the truth hurts sometimes !
Did you register on this forum just to get banned?
I suggest you to be very careful with your posts and comments!
  #296  
Old 02.05.2011, 22:58
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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5 groans and 2 reds... faster than mrbigtime82....
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Old 02.05.2011, 22:58
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

I have my doubts about Bin-Laden being killed by the USA yesterday.

It seems very odd that his body was taken away and then buried at sea so that there is absolutely no proof he was killed.

To me it would have made sense to have formally given it to Pakistan Government. This would have given the proof to the world that Bin-Laden was residing in Pakistan and given the responsibility of disposal of the body to the Pakistanis.

I suspect that Bin-Laden was already dead as he appears to have sent no tapes of recent.
I would not be surprised if Obama was now sure that Bin-Laden was dead and that if Obama made out that he killed him:
1) This would help Obama's ratings with the up-coming elections.
2) This would mean that USA could tell Pakistan it no longer need to come into its country.
3) A chance to start removing troops from Afganistan and Iraq on the basis that the war is over helping both diplomatic ties and saving on governemnt defence spending.
4) It distracts the media with regard to the financial dilema/bankruptcy of the USA.

However, the truth of the matter is that there will probably be more problems as everyone will be trying to prove to be the new leader against the USA.
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  #298  
Old 02.05.2011, 23:06
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

But Cashboy....what happens if bin Laden releases another one of his date-relevant videos? The USA can't lie about something like this, it's just too big and risky.
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  #299  
Old 02.05.2011, 23:12
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

I think what Cash was saying was that he believes Osama was already dead before this report, hence no tapes for a good while.
  #300  
Old 02.05.2011, 23:14
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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But Cashboy....what happens if Bin Laden releases another one of his date-relevant videos? The USA can't lie about something like this, it's just too big and risky.
I am under the impression that Bin-Laden was dead a long time ago and that Obama is certain now so is now possibly making up that they have just killed him.

Ask yourself what you would do if you were in Obama's shoes.

It just doesn't stack up that the body of Bin-Laden was removed from the compound; transported to Afganistan and then buried at sea.
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