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Old 03.05.2011, 10:59
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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And, as far as I know, it is not in islamic tradition to bury the dead at sea.
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This point has already been debated earlier in the thread.
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And thrown (buried) at sea according to islamic tradition by non-moslems? It makes you think, no?
Let's say it again,

The most logical reason for throwing the body into the sea (from a muslim point of view) is to assure his followers do not try to find him and transform it into a Holly Graal Quest. Plus, if body is found, make it become a Saint and an Holly place to go and pray on.

To burry to body into 24 hours is a muslim tradition. I believe they had an Imam who did the ceremony. Why should we assume the most negative attitude and/or reaction from the US Governement? I prefer to believe they have enough decency to respect people's belief. And I also believe the US Army has plenty of muslim into their troop.
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  #342  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:15
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Maybe they could have just knocked on his front door and said 'Excuse us, please, but is this the Bin Laden residence? It is? Oh, how wonderful! We've been searching ever so long! Tea and bikkies? Oh, please. You're so very kind. Oh, no, we don't mind waiting. One of our helicopters is double parked, however.'
How is the relevant? They had his body and threw it into the sea without making 100% sure.

Has the US actually officially said they buried him at sea though?
  #343  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:18
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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at least it made all the news stations shut up about that blasted wedding for 5 minutes.
Yes the only reason Bin Laden was caught, because he was busy watching the Royal wedding
  #344  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:20
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

Can't but help thinking about the presumably twenty odd year old Marine who took the shot. Apart from the fact that only he and his unit know his true identity, he'll be reminded of his actions for the rest of his life with all the inevitable books and magazine articles. Trauma is a hard one to shake, because it doesn't go away, you learn to live with it.

A friend of mine's son was a Marine in Iraq and he killed 3 people after a checkpoint situation got out of hand. He was 19 at the time and I felt that he was proud of how he handled it, one if his unit was also killed. I just feel he'll be reliving those few seconds for the rest of his life and they can't train you for that. There's always a price to pay and although we are rid of a terrorist, spare a thought for the kid from Boise, Idaho or wherever he came from.
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  #345  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:22
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

All this fuss about a failed terrorist leader with unreal aspirations.

Ironically the only time he achieved success was under American management in Afghanistan when he helped to push out Russia.

Since then despite being involved in the murders of many people he never achieved a single objective.

Finaly he tried to become a religious leader without any proper training or qualification which meant his Koran interpretations were very suspect.

Many uneducated young people saw him as a holy figure but now they can clearly see he was mortal like the rest of us; hopefully this will encourage them to take a more realistic view of the world in future.
  #346  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:24
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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How is the relevant? They had his body and threw it into the sea without making 100% sure.

Has the US actually officially said they buried him at sea though?

of course they are 100% sure, the world and politicians being what they are they are just covering there arses.
  #347  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:26
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Can't but help thinking about the presumably twenty odd year old Marine who took the shot. Apart from the fact that only he and his unit know his true identity, he'll be reminded of his actions for the rest of his life with all the inevitable books and magazine articles. Trauma is a hard one to shake, because it doesn't go away, you learn to live with it.

A friend of mine's son was a Marine in Iraq and he killed 3 people after a checkpoint situation got out of hand. He was 19 at the time and I felt that he was proud of how he handled it, one if his unit was also killed. I just feel he'll be reliving those few seconds for the rest of his life and they can't train you for that. There's always a price to pay and although we are rid of a terrorist, spare a thought for the kid from Boise, Idaho or wherever he came from.
This was the elite team 6 SEALS. Apparently more elite than Delta in the US. They were all probably older than 20 something.
  #348  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:31
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Yes the only reason Bin Laden was caught, because he was busy watching the Royal wedding
That reminds me of about the only funny part of the "Bruno" movie, where he refers to Osama looking like a "dirty wizard." Quite the fashion maven.

It strikes me that it is difficult for everyone to talk about this single occurrence without ultimately introducing previously held opinion on other acts perpetrated, or omitted, by the US Government and military. This is understandable but it makes it difficult to really share views on this act because we are all ships passing in the night.

Based on what I have read/seen, it appears to me that the US had a good idea where OBL was, sent in a SEAL team with a "dead or alive" extraction mission, the team was involved in some kind of firefight, and they killed OBL and the people immediately defending him. Then they gathered intelligence (we'll see what it was, but we are long past the days when even the US Gov't can keep things like this entirely secret -- if nothing was actually gathered it will seep out) and hauled ass with the body. As I understand it, they gathered DNA but the results will not be in for awhile. It's safe to assume they took comprehensive photographic evidence too -- OBL is a distinctive looking dude anyway -- then they buried him at sea to both comply with Islamic tradition and not create a martyr site.

Will this end terrorism? No. Does it justify military action in Iraq? No. Was OBL the figurehead or actual leader of Al Qaeda? It doesn't matter -- either way his death is significant.

This was a well-performed operation with a specific, narrow target. It's good that he's gone. It's OK to have questions and it's OK to be suspicious of the US Government (I am and I'm from the US), but the truth is that the US Government is too incompetent to be weaving secret conspiracies (see the South Park episode). The US Military, on the other hand, is VERY competent. Sometimes you have to take things at face value and I think this is one of those times.
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  #349  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:43
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

It was all a big media show to cover-up the Conservatives winning a majority government in Canada.


(sorry, perhaps this belongs in the joke section)
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  #350  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:46
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Yes the only reason Bin Laden was caught, because he was busy watching the Royal wedding
...and maybe he was watching the Royal wedding, but eitherway he shouldn't have used his real address on PSN.
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  #351  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:48
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

One of Bin Laden's main aims was to break the US economy. He is quoted in December 2001 as saying: "If their economy is destroyed, they will be busy with their own affairs rather than enslaving the weak peoples. It is very important to concentrate on hitting the U.S. economy through all possible means." And here is what al Qaeda second-in-command Ayman al-Zawahiri said in September 2002: "We will also aim to continue, by the permission of Allah, the destruction of the American economy." (see http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/...the-us-economy)

He sadly achieved this aim some time ago following the trillions spent by the US military chasing ghosts. The US federal reserve policy since 9/11 of negative real interest rates together with the US government's extraordinary ramp-up in spending has accelerated the decline and fall of the US empire no-end. The fact that Bin Laden is dead does not change this. Nothing can change this. Al Qaeda do not need to fire another bullet or explode a single IED - they have pretty much achieved what they set out to do.
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  #352  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:50
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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...and maybe he was watching the Royal wedding, but eitherway he shouldn't have used his real address on PSN.
He didn't have internet in his facility. Fail joke!
  #353  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:57
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Based on what I have read/seen, it appears to me that the US had a good idea where OBL was, sent in a SEAL team with a "dead or alive" extraction mission, the team was involved in some kind of firefight, and they killed OBL and the people immediately defending him. Then they gathered intelligence (we'll see what it was, but we are long past the days when even the US Gov't can keep things like this entirely secret -- if nothing was actually gathered it will seep out) and hauled ass with the body. As I understand it, they gathered DNA but the results will not be in for awhile. It's safe to assume they took comprehensive photographic evidence too -- OBL is a distinctive looking dude anyway -- then they buried him at sea to both comply with Islamic tradition and not create a martyr site.

Will this end terrorism? No. Does it justify military action in Iraq? No. Was OBL the figurehead or actual leader of Al Qaeda? It doesn't matter -- either way his death is significant.

This was a well-performed operation with a specific, narrow target. It's good that he's gone. It's OK to have questions and it's OK to be suspicious of the US Government (I am and I'm from the US), but the truth is that the US Government is too incompetent to be weaving secret conspiracies (see the South Park episode). The US Military, on the other hand, is VERY competent. Sometimes you have to take things at face value and I think this is one of those times.

I agree

Will this end terrorism? Probably not.
Does this change the world ? I do not know
Should there be a celebration on his death? NO.

does this justify killing Osama?

Yes, terrorists are criminals of highest orders and should be brought to justice.No act of terrorism is ever justified, nor should it ever be accepted or tolerated.

Yes killing only brings hatred, but not punishing/ or not being able to punish terrorists, would only encourage terrorism.

Individuals and groups need to stop killing in the name of "GOD", and own up to the fact that they are committing "cowardly" acts of terrorism in the name of their own selfishness, greed and hatred.
  #354  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:08
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

Anyway, here's the definitive version of what happened, thanks to the geniuses in Taiwan who do the fantastic CGI's of every news-worthy event!

http://www.fark.com/vidplayer/6163261
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Old 03.05.2011, 12:21
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Old 03.05.2011, 12:24
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

Osama being captured next to military academy in Pakistan and then quickly dumped in the sea "in strictest of islamic traditions" is just the face of the actual conflict, to keep the rhetorical masses busy, as we can see here. Debating whether Osmam was actually killed, or the islamic burial traditions and fake photos etc etc.

If Pakistan actually was "harboring" the terrorist mastermind, do you think it would be the usual US reaction, with Obama thanking Pakistan for its cooperation while Pakistan denying any knowledge? Think about it.

Its a trade war, like UK and USSR tried on previous occasions and now USA. Lately there has been a rift between Washington and Islamabad, and Pakistan is being pushed towards unstability or even civil war. People in Pakistan are not concerned about Osama being captured or dumped at sea, but why did US violated and entered its territory and Govt and Military is having a tough time dealing with it. People are actually asking to retaliate.. for crazy, uncivilised barbarians they are.

The way I see it... US has reguler army, Pakistan has reguler army and they try to be seen as working together. Then US as CIA and mercenaries called Blackwaters for covert actions. Pakistan has ISI and "Alqaeda/Taliban" mercenaries for covert actions. US used drone attacks, Pakistan uses jail breaks and blow up supply lines.

Apparently there are 2 factions in Pakistan, one pro US and other who wants to move away from US and align with China or go independent. It has been in the making. Its more like Gen Kayani Vs Gen Petreaus conflict.

News articles below might shed some light:

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/03/haqqani-promises-bin-laden-intel-inquiry.html

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“Look, we have to as a nation in Pakistan re-evaluate our view of this whole problem,” he said.

Some people after 9/11 “said we shouldn’t side with the United States because the United States is about to crumble like the Soviet Union did and we should actually support the Taliban,” he said.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrin...2&dt=3/28/2011

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Pakistan on March 17 had refused to participate in a Trilateral Meeting with the US in Brussels and demanded an apology and an explanation over CIA’s drone strike a day after one of its contractor, Raymond Davis was released.
http://pak-news.com/petraeus-if-confirmed-cia-chief-will-fight-3rd-war-in-pak/

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During an interview late last year in Islamabad, a high-ranking Pakistani intelligence official repeatedly referred to the U.S. commander as “Mr. Petraeus,” refusing to acknowledge his military rank.
And the cardinal sin

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When Admiral Mike Mullen met Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani in Islamabad last week, he too asked his Pakistani counterpart to assure him that Islamabad was not working with Kabul and Beijing to forge a secret deal with the Taliban,” the sources said.
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  #357  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:24
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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He didn't have internet in his facility. Fail joke!

look at the pics again, he clearly had a satellite dish
  #358  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:26
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Old 03.05.2011, 12:28
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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If Pakistan actually was "harboring" the terrorist mastermind, do you think it would be the usual US reaction, with Obama thanking Pakistan for its cooperation while Pakistan denying any knowledge? Think about it.
What would the usual US reaction be?
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Old 03.05.2011, 12:47
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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What would the usual US reaction be?
Have you forgotten what they did to Afghanistan for harboring him?
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