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Old 03.05.2011, 11:53
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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look at the pics again, he clearly had a satellite dish
safe in the knowledge that he was safe from Billag....
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  #362  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:55
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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All this fuss about a failed terrorist leader with unreal aspirations.

Ironically the only time he achieved success was under American management in Afghanistan when he helped to push out Russia.

Since then despite being involved in the murders of many people he never achieved a single objective.

Finaly he tried to become a religious leader without any proper training or qualification which meant his Koran interpretations were very suspect.

Many uneducated young people saw him as a holy figure but now they can clearly see he was mortal like the rest of us; hopefully this will encourage them to take a more realistic view of the world in future.
Since when did a terrorist ever have a single objective, apart from spreading terror?
  #363  
Old 03.05.2011, 11:55
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

Wow, 9 pages.

If some kids want to celebrate some terrorist's death, I am actually not so against it. The nation coped with the horrific deaths 9/11 through all sorts of ceremonies. I do not think that kind of emotional reaction would be a direct symptom of violent movies and wrong priorities that apparently some people here think kids in the US get fed, it is not so simplistic. I saw those reactions last night on the local news, everyone knew so much better how they would have dealth with it if they were in the US, yady yady.

I tend to think it is linked to the way recent history was presented to the kids their generation in the school, maybe textbooks are responsible for this, Hist teachers, all sorts of memorials and obligatory visits and actions school have to do during the rememberence day. Patriotism is a normal reaction, I don't think it is overblown. More logical. How would we have acted if our lives were so affected affected?

The people who died in 9/11 were some of the most hard working people in that community. So, I wouldn't feel entitled criticize how the community deals with it, emotionally, with the death of the person who sent so many thousands of people die.
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  #364  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:00
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Wow, 9 pages.

If some kids want to celebrate some terrorist's death, I am actually not so against it. The nation coped with the horrific deaths 9/11 through all sorts of ceremonies. I do not think that kind of emotional reaction would be a direct symptom of violent movies and wrong priorities that apparently some people here think kids in the US get fed, it is not so simplistic. I saw those reactions last night on the local news, everyone knew so much better how they would have dealth with it if they were in the US, yady yady.

I tend to think it is linked to the way recent history was presented to the kids their generation in the school, maybe textbooks are responsible for this, Hist teachers, all sorts of memorials and obligatory visits and actions school have to do during the rememberence day. Patriotism is a normal reaction, I don't think it is overblown. More logical. How would we have acted if our lives were so affected affected?

The people who died in 9/11 were some of the most hard working people in that community. So, I wouldn't feel entitled criticize how the community deals with it, emotionally, with the death of the person who sent so many thousands of people die.
I agree - I think it was an emotionally very honest response by elements of a populace who have been fed a diet of fear for the past ten years. When the kid hears the bogeyman is taken care of the kid is prone to celebration.

And as for those directly affected by the attacks of 9/11 I think it is completely understandable that they feel some relief that the guy is gone.
  #365  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:30
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Yes the only reason Bin Laden was caught, because he was busy watching the Royal wedding
Aw, I can just see him there waving his little union jack.
  #366  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:31
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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I agree - I think it was an emotionally very honest response by elements of a populace who have been fed a diet of fear for the past ten years..
But, we weren't there when they had things explained, etc. There is a huge difference when you mourn thousands of deaths after an earthquake, and when kids feel for the families that had to cope without family members. I don't think you need to instil diet of fear to get that kind of human reaction. When Stalin died (of syphilis, mind you), my Soviet satelite parents had to cry on command and stand still for looooong 15 minutes, while shedding tears in their classroom, with the teacher (who was checking for the tears).

I think patriotism shows differently. Here you have xenophobic rasist hysterical posters, pointing fingers and there weren't deaths of innocent people involved. There, the reaction to killing the most responsible person who fed hatred so much he raised murderers, I kinda see the scale and emotions, attached. I know you are not principally disagreeing with me. I just think we all can sit our safe butts here and nag how silly US teens are, when I actually consider their reaction normal (and not even a symptom of some hate inducing propaganda). I agree it would have been better without that weird overreaction, but it's a nation that gets targetted the most, how safe do they feel when they travel...and they got attacked in their own home, mind you, too.

Anyways.
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  #367  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:38
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

Thing is, even if reaction is 'normal- shouldn't Americans, young or old, not realise that the sort of jubilation shown is like a 'red rag to a bull' and likely to be inflammatory and lead to reprisals, and the images used to recruit, brainwash and turn or hatred.
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  #368  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:52
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Since when did a terrorist ever have a single objective, apart from spreading terror?

kinda interesting when you look at the Al-Qaeda 15 year plan apparently released 6 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_quada#Strategy
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Old 03.05.2011, 12:52
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

So they start a war against an entire country, spend billions trying to capture/kill this guy in Afghanistan.... turns out he was in Pakistan! oops! invaded the wrong country there
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  #370  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:53
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Since when did a terrorist ever have a single objective, apart from spreading terror?
Terror is a means to an end.
People do not join terrorist organisations simply to kill people but to achieve a goal be it their vision of independence, freedom, or whatever.

Bin Laden did not achieve any goals; so far as I remember one was to drive the "invaders" from our lands.........
  #371  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:55
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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But, we weren't there when they had things explained, etc. There is a huge difference when you mourn thousands of deaths after an earthquake, and when kids feel for the families that had to cope without family members. I don't think you need to instil diet of fear to get that kind of human reaction. When Stalin died (of syphilis, mind you), my Soviet satelite parents had to cry on command and stand still for looooong 15 minutes, while shedding tears in their classroom, with the teacher (who was checking for the tears).

I think patriotism shows differently. Here you have xenophobic rasist hysterical posters, pointing fingers and there weren't deaths of innocent people involved. There, the reaction to killing the most responsible person who fed hatred so much he raised murderers, I kinda see the scale and emotions, attached. I know you are not principally disagreeing with me. I just think we all can sit our safe butts here and nag how silly US teens are, when I actually consider their reaction normal (and not even a symptom of some hate inducing propaganda). I agree it would have been better without that weird overreaction, but it's a nation that gets targetted the most, how safe do they feel when they travel...and they got attacked in their own home, mind you, too.

Anyways.
I've always felt perfectly safe when travelling. Including a trip from the US to Europe two weeks after the September 11th attacks. I don't always like to let my accent be heard when I'm out and about - but that's more about not standing out than thinking that some wacko is going to hear my American accent and target me outside of the US.

But it was very disturbing to me, as an American - and as a former NYer - to see these people out there celebrating the death of another human being.

Quietly raise a toast to those who did it, sure, but don't go out and celebrate with a party in the streets. That's not just crass, it shows a lack of respect for human life in general. It was definitely partially driven by propaganda. And that attitude is one of the reasons why the US won't be my home again by choice. People there also go to executions at prisons and cheer when the word comes out that the person has died. How does that make Americans any different than those they call the "bad guys" (oh, how I hate that term).
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  #372  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:55
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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I think patriotism shows differently. Here you have xenophobic rasist hysterical posters, pointing fingers and there weren't deaths of innocent people involved. There, the reaction to killing the most responsible person who fed hatred so much he raised murderers,
  #373  
Old 03.05.2011, 12:57
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

I also felt uncomfortable when seeing jubilations in the street after the announcement. But if we consider a few things we might then "understand" it:
- US is a country where death penalty is still not banned. So europeans may react differently based on this cultural difference.

- OBL's death is more the end of an era and the end of a symbol. Therefore the jubilation is more about the end of an ideology rather than a person.

- Expressing joy of seeing very soon the boys come back home. The motivation to go in afghanistan was to track OBL

The border between "justice has been done" and "revenge" is very thin; it's up to the US officials to play transparency.
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Old 03.05.2011, 12:58
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Terror is a means to an end.
People do not join terrorist organisations simply to kill people but to achieve a goal be it their vision of independence, freedom, or whatever.

Bin Laden did not achieve any goals; so far as I remember one was to drive the "invaders" from our lands.........
He achieved a very real goal - the bankrupting of the US economy.
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  #375  
Old 03.05.2011, 13:00
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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He achieved a very real goal - the bankrupting of the US economy.
don't you think it has more to do with the Lehman Brothers & Co. banks of wall street gurus?
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  #376  
Old 03.05.2011, 13:13
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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don't you think it has more to do with the Lehman Brothers & Co. banks of wall street gurus?
No - not more. The banks simply took advantage of the artificially low interest rates and rapid money supply expansion policies of the Fed. If you throw a pig a load more food it will eat it. These policies were implemented following 9/11 and during the build up, and later execution of, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Old 03.05.2011, 13:15
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

why do muslims really care how or where this terrorist was buried?? when other non-muslims terrorists have been killed the world couldn't care less what happens to the bodies, yet this guy, who has single handily put christian - muslim relations back to the crusades ages, and muslim organizations are tripping over themselves to condem the burial. ffs you had the perfect opportunity to improve relations, all you needed to say was this guy was a murderer and not a true muslim, but once again you blow it.

why even say anything? by sticking your oar in your making it into yet another religious issue.
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Old 03.05.2011, 13:18
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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Good - but how stupid of Americans to organise such provocative jubilation and celebration - I cannot believe that they don't think about the possible repercussions. Duhhhhh It puts all of us at risk of increased terrorism and vengeance.
I don't think it was the Americans who started off this tasteless celebrating at someone's death.
It was those dratted Munchkins in The Wizard of Oz when the house landed on the Wicked Witch and they all started singing and dancing.
Whenever I watch that movie in future I will be very upset at the dangerous and irresponsible precedent they set.
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Old 03.05.2011, 13:21
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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look at the pics again, he clearly had a satellite dish
Yeh but that's no good for his PSN? Or I guess he might have satellite internet
  #380  
Old 03.05.2011, 13:40
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Re: US gov. claiming Osama bin Laden killed.

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So they start a war against an entire country, spend billions trying to capture/kill this guy in Afghanistan.... turns out he was in Pakistan! oops! invaded the wrong country there
yep, it's called intelligence.

And then there's something called counter-intelligence which I suppose must be the opposite of intelligence and hence more commonly called stupidity.
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