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  #181  
Old 13.11.2011, 21:30
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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So the solution supported by the non-elected EU officials for Italy & Greece is to replace their elected leaders with non-elected leaders.

Now if I was a conspiracy theorist....
"non-elected" ? elected by the E.U., to solve the mess
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  #182  
Old 15.11.2011, 22:52
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

There is claimed to be a "flood" of people selling eurozone sovereign bonds (issued from most countries) today.
Best description I heard of the euro situation recently is "like watching a slow motion train crash".

Luckily the euro & CHF are pegged together so we can all participate in losing money

Gold is now CHF52K+ per kilo; wish I had a larger percentage of my assets in gold - but I foolishly thought CHF was a safe haven!
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  #183  
Old 16.11.2011, 02:05
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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There is claimed to be a "flood" of people selling eurozone sovereign bonds (issued from most countries) today.
Best description I heard of the euro situation recently is "like watching a slow motion train crash".

Luckily the euro & CHF are pegged together so we can all participate in losing money

Gold is now CHF52K+ per kilo; wish I had a larger percentage of my assets in gold - but I foolishly thought CHF was a safe haven!
A low exchange-rate of the € against the $ is good for the export industry and the inbound tourism on which most countries here around depend. And this means that we all are pegged together to participate in making money.

In practical terms, the price of a A350 now drops to below the price of a B787 and this means business to European industries. When the CHF-€ PEG gets raised to 1.30 (at the latest after mid-December) this will bring back lost customers around the globe.
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  #184  
Old 20.11.2011, 12:33
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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So the solution supported by the non-elected EU officials for Italy & Greece is to replace their elected leaders with non-elected leaders.

Now if I was a conspiracy theorist....
Now Italy has a new prime minister & cabinet; not one of them was democratically elected by the people. Strange world
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  #185  
Old 20.11.2011, 21:41
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Now Italy has a new prime minister & cabinet; not one of them was democratically elected by the people. Strange world
BOTH got approved by democratic votes in parliament and this IS "democratically elected". I mean, neither the Head of State nor the Prime Minister is elected by the people in Britain or Germany or Spain. It is just the leaders of the largest party in parliament who gets appointed to form the new government. And in Switzerland, the members of both chambers of parliament and the members of Cantonal and Municipal governments and parliaments are elected by the people directly, but the Federal government is elected by the united congress of both houses of parliament
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  #186  
Old 21.11.2011, 00:01
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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BOTH got approved by democratic votes in parliament and this IS "democratically elected". I mean, neither the Head of State nor the Prime Minister is elected by the people in Britain or Germany or Spain. It is just the leaders of the largest party in parliament who gets appointed to form the new government. And in Switzerland, the members of both chambers of parliament and the members of Cantonal and Municipal governments and parliaments are elected by the people directly, but the Federal government is elected by the united congress of both houses of parliament
In all the cases you quote they are selected from people who were elected to Parliament (or equivalent).
In the case of Italy (& likely Greece) they just dragged people off the street into the roles, they have no democratic legitimacy. They never stood up before the people and explained their views & policies and got voted in.
And if the people do not like what they are doing the people have no possibility to vote them out.
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  #187  
Old 02.12.2011, 17:54
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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In all the cases you quote they are selected from people who were elected to Parliament (or equivalent).
In the case of Italy (& likely Greece) they just dragged people off the street into the roles, they have no democratic legitimacy. They never stood up before the people and explained their views & policies and got voted in.
And if the people do not like what they are doing the people have no possibility to vote them out.
If one can believe the newspapers the role of Italian Agricultural Minister has been offered to the wrong person due to a mix up over names!

Anybody understand how the new European fiscal union will work?

I mean the threat to punish countries who do not meet the fiscal requirements; if a country does not achieve required savings how will a fine help? It just adds to the problem, not to the solution??
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  #188  
Old 28.06.2012, 13:27
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

As it seems the leaving of euro zone for Hellass is just matter of time.

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Mr. Rasmussen said he was sure that Greece would remain a strong and “highly valued ally” within NATO even if it dropped out of the euro zone or even the European Union.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47776055.../#.T-wwmZJJK31
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  #189  
Old 29.06.2012, 00:11
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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As it seems the leaving of euro zone for Hellass is just matter of time.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47776055.../#.T-wwmZJJK31
As soon as they find somebody who finances a new Greek currency, they may do so.
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  #190  
Old 19.01.2013, 00:34
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

According to the papers today the IMF are saying Greece will need another few Billions more than was thought; circa 10Bn.

I suppose they will find a way to kick the can down the road again??
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  #191  
Old 04.01.2015, 12:11
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Finally Merkel is ready to see Greece leaving the eurozone if Alexis Tsipras wins the general elections. The Grexit is seen as bearable.

Some politic fiction: what if Greece leaves eurozone and is better off?
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  #192  
Old 04.01.2015, 14:05
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Finally Merkel is ready to see Greece leaving the eurozone if Alexis Tsipras wins the general elections. The Grexit is seen as bearable.

Some politic fiction: what if Greece leaves eurozone and is better off?

That would be stretching a bit. Greece is importing about 2 bil EUR more than it's exporting and it's more than obvious that a dead cheap drachma would bring huge problems. Oil might be cheap, but it's not that cheap. Same for a lot of medicine and even food. (Greece used to be a highly agricultural economy, but Right-wing farmers wanted EU subsidies and ended up working just for them).


An exaggerated picture of empty supermarkets, dry fuel pumps, and empty medicine shelves was sold to the Greek public in 2012 before the last election, and people went for the "safe option" of the memorandum supporting parties.

Now they are tired and are listening to promises of a pre-2010 Greece, a Greece that has proven unsustainable by any measure and completely destructive for its own population in the long-term.


The problem with the Greeks is that we have been trained with 30 years of PASOK policies which is "hire everyone, give benefits to everyone, retire everyone, and we'll see how we'll get the money". They hired people and grew an enormous public sector in exchange for undying loyalty to "the party".

Please have a look in a baptism of a child with the face of Andreas Papandreou all over the freaking church.

That worked well in the 90s, and when the EU was pouring money to help Greece develop. A lot of money that went to infrastructure dripped down to the rest of the economy and everyone was happy. Then in the 2000s banks were giving away money because real estate was booming like hell (because of all the dripped down money). You could get loans for 120-130% of the property's value because the bank was expecting rising prices and that it couldn't lose.


When someone looked at the numbers and the music stopped, everyone was SOL. Now money doesn't flow from the heavens and it's obvious that people don't like that. It's not to say that Greeks are lazy or something, the Greece private sector is an f-ing slave trade and people are working their asses off. The problem is that the slaves have to support a huge state and it's obviously impossible. The people in the public sector believe they deserve their positions and don't want to get fired, and fight to the nail to keep corrupt institutions that just employ people just so they can receive salaries, and the people in the private sector are sick and tired of paying insane taxes so the former can keep their positions.



Cue a guy that promises everything will be fine and we'll tell the EU to go f themselves, to gullible people that are either clinging to a miserable state of things that sustains them without actually contributing much, or to desperate people that are being driven to the ground by stupid taxes and don't see any actual reforms that might actually help take the economy to a healthier, less-communistic status.


Sorry about the rant and the long post, but I wanted to vent
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  #193  
Old 06.01.2015, 03:34
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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That would be stretching a bit. Greece is importing about 2 bil EUR more than it's exporting and it's more than obvious that a dead cheap drachma would bring huge problems. Oil might be cheap, but it's not that cheap. Same for a lot of medicine and even food. (Greece used to be a highly agricultural economy, but Right-wing farmers wanted EU subsidies and ended up working just for them).


An exaggerated picture of empty supermarkets, dry fuel pumps, and empty medicine shelves was sold to the Greek public in 2012 before the last election, and people went for the "safe option" of the memorandum supporting parties.

Now they are tired and are listening to promises of a pre-2010 Greece, a Greece that has proven unsustainable by any measure and completely destructive for its own population in the long-term.


The problem with the Greeks is that we have been trained with 30 years of PASOK policies which is "hire everyone, give benefits to everyone, retire everyone, and we'll see how we'll get the money". They hired people and grew an enormous public sector in exchange for undying loyalty to "the party".

Please have a look in a baptism of a child with the face of Andreas Papandreou all over the freaking church.

That worked well in the 90s, and when the EU was pouring money to help Greece develop. A lot of money that went to infrastructure dripped down to the rest of the economy and everyone was happy. Then in the 2000s banks were giving away money because real estate was booming like hell (because of all the dripped down money). You could get loans for 120-130% of the property's value because the bank was expecting rising prices and that it couldn't lose.


When someone looked at the numbers and the music stopped, everyone was SOL. Now money doesn't flow from the heavens and it's obvious that people don't like that. It's not to say that Greeks are lazy or something, the Greece private sector is an f-ing slave trade and people are working their asses off. The problem is that the slaves have to support a huge state and it's obviously impossible. The people in the public sector believe they deserve their positions and don't want to get fired, and fight to the nail to keep corrupt institutions that just employ people just so they can receive salaries, and the people in the private sector are sick and tired of paying insane taxes so the former can keep their positions.



Cue a guy that promises everything will be fine and we'll tell the EU to go f themselves, to gullible people that are either clinging to a miserable state of things that sustains them without actually contributing much, or to desperate people that are being driven to the ground by stupid taxes and don't see any actual reforms that might actually help take the economy to a healthier, less-communistic status.


Sorry about the rant and the long post, but I wanted to vent

Interesting. But who would finance a new currency ? Greece cannot afford to launch a new currency


Let Greece adopt the Swiss Franc.This would keep the exchange rates of the CHF at a good Level. The SNB could sell some currency deposits with a profît. Switzerland could purchase some Greek Islands and integrate them as Swiss Cantons


Just imagine the new names
- Chernossisos = Kanton Chernosie(n)
- Rhodos = Kanton Rodensie(n)
and those formerly Greek Cantons making Greek nr 2 or 3 in Switzerland
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  #194  
Old 06.01.2015, 22:32
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Interesting. But who would finance a new currency ? Greece cannot afford to launch a new currency


Let Greece adopt the Swiss Franc.This would keep the exchange rates of the CHF at a good Level. The SNB could sell some currency deposits with a profît. Switzerland could purchase some Greek Islands and integrate them as Swiss Cantons


Just imagine the new names
- Chernossisos = Kanton Chernosie(n)
- Rhodos = Kanton Rodensie(n)
and those formerly Greek Cantons making Greek nr 2 or 3 in Switzerland
If Greeks were to sell some islands, I am sure they can get better price from another country
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  #195  
Old 06.01.2015, 22:40
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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If Greeks were to sell some islands, I am sure they can get better price from another country
Problem is that ownership of land is often not 100% clear.
Or it belongs to the (orthodox) church...

Selling that old airport was difficult enough, AFAIK.
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  #196  
Old 06.01.2015, 23:27
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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If Greeks were to sell some islands, I am sure they can get better price from another country
I thought Greeks were supposed to be good salesmen. Surely selling a couple of islands that aren't even theirs to Frau Merkel shouldn't be a problem for them. They can start off with Mallorca (which is basically German anyway), and then maybe even sell Helgoland (which is also somewhat German) before moving on to Elba and Saint Helena (useful for disposing of unwanted dictators, so much more romantic than shooting them in bunkers).
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  #197  
Old 07.01.2015, 20:32
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Problem is that ownership of land is often not 100% clear.
Or it belongs to the (orthodox) church...

Selling that old airport was difficult enough, AFAIK.

offtopic BUT
- do you mean Hellenikon ?
- and if yes, WHO is the buyer ?
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  #198  
Old 07.01.2015, 20:57
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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offtopic BUT
- do you mean Hellenikon ?
- and if yes, WHO is the buyer ?

Yes, however you are correct in that I was mistaken.
The Airport is not sold yet, but it can apparently sold now:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/flu...a-1001735.html

As so often, it's old Greek money and an Arab-Chinese investment group....

Earlier report:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/athens-ghos...enikon-1455991


Castle in the sky:
http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/economy/art...y-and-tomorrow

;-)
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  #199  
Old 08.01.2015, 03:02
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Yes, however you are correct in that I was mistaken.
The Airport is not sold yet, but it can apparently sold now:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/flu...a-1001735.html

As so often, it's old Greek money and an Arab-Chinese investment group....

Earlier report:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/athens-ghos...enikon-1455991


Castle in the sky:
http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/economy/art...y-and-tomorrow

;-)

Thanks for the Information. I on visits there loved Hellenikon Airport for aircraft photography. Yes, there were restrictions but I simply mingled among the crowd. I indeed would have loved Hellenikon to stay in civil aviation, but what can we do. Whatever , the Location is superb, and only Greeks could block Investments of billions for no real reasons at all


************************************************** *******************


Interesting is to see that the Rub-al-Khali area west of the airport along the seaside apparently also belongs to the airport area ---- and I hope that the Arab -- Chinese snobs want to have a kind of VIP airfield
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  #200  
Old 12.06.2015, 01:12
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

IMF quits Greece talks amid ‘air of unreality’ as deal unravels

So, it's for real this time?
Haven't heard any rumors or leaks about Greece printing their own money.
Yet.

Greece has done well over the last months - sucked every €-Cent it could out of the ECB (via ELA) which Greek citizens swiftly moved to bank accounts in Germany, France and Switzerland at rates that would be alarming even if the circumstances weren't what they are - while at the same time it suckered the other states into taking in all the debt (after the last hair-cut, Greek debt held by private western banks and other investors mostly got nationalized to ECB and other national banks by way of the ECB just buying up those loans).
Now, whatever the EU does they'll leave a lot of money on the table.
And they're clearly pondering just calling it quits - but nobody knows what comes after that. Because most likely, civilization as we know it and which is already showing its cracks in Greece's everyday life, will probably take a break for some time, which will lead to a lot of people from Greece with EU passports turning up in the rest of Europe. And maybe even more people without any passports, using the "open gate" to try their luck at the dream called "Europe".

I've recently seen on the homepage of a hotel on some Greek island that the hotel touted its dependency on local farmers and producers, sourcing between 80 and 100% of meat, vegetables, fruits etc. from its own neighborhood.
They have some smart people there ;-)
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