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Old 08.07.2015, 00:27
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Tonight's press conference after the euro group meeting does not sound positive for Greece, example from Merkel " Greece has not yet done enough to start negotiations about a new bailout programme:"
And this, in reference to the new Greek finance minister not coming to the meeting with any kind of plan:

"I have the strong impression there were 18 ... ministers of finance who felt the urgency of the situation and there is one ... who doesn't feel the urgency of the situation," Belgian Finance Minister Johan Van Overtveldt said.

Source
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  #362  
Old 08.07.2015, 00:34
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Italy is a huge industrial nation which is easily turned around with a little will - just look what Mario Monti achieved in 6 months... only shame is that Italians didnt vote him to retain the position... could really be a force in Europe again.
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  #363  
Old 08.07.2015, 00:36
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Found a post this afternoon:
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?...9&cid=50057373

Eye-watering.

And people complain about taxes in Bern ;-)
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  #364  
Old 08.07.2015, 00:45
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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And this, in reference to the new Greek finance minister not coming to the meeting with any kind of plan:

"I have the strong impression there were 18 ... ministers of finance who felt the urgency of the situation and there is one ... who doesn't feel the urgency of the situation," Belgian Finance Minister Johan Van Overtveldt said.

Source
the extent to which the Italians continue to gush optimistic about a situation that is clearly FUBAR makes me wonder what the Italians will ask for if the EU accommodates another rescue of Greece.

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  #365  
Old 08.07.2015, 14:41
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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the extent to which the Italians continue to gush optimistic about a situation that is clearly FUBAR makes me wonder what the Italians will ask for if the EU accommodates another rescue of Greece.

Compared with Greece Italy is in a splendid situation
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  #366  
Old 09.07.2015, 09:36
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Found a post this afternoon:
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?...9&cid=50057373

Eye-watering.

And people complain about taxes in Bern ;-)
Let me paste the text here because there are many posts there and people may be too lazy to look for the one you were referring to.
This post explains perfectly why Greeks who feel creative and want to achieve something are forced to leave the country.
If we all agreed to go back and save the place, we would have some tiny chance of success, but most probably the establishment would kill us (not physically but morally and emotionally) before we even started.

This is why I think we must all agree that Greece cannot be part of the Eurozone, but rather a poor, cheap, beautiful destination for our summer holidays.

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I'm tired of listening to this. Let me tell you what happens when you're 100% legal and declare everything up to the last penny you get as a software developer. In 2012 I had 100,000 Euros income paid 86,000 Euros spent on taxes (income tax with surprisingly different brackets than last year, "temporary" property tax, "temporary special contribution" 4% on the total turnover, mandatory social security, 55% of your current income tax as downpayment for next year). The year before I made 74,000 Euros and paid "only" 50,000 or thereabouts. In return I got: no schools, no roads, no pension, more taxes, more family members depending on me to live. The more you work the less you make (unless you have an ever-shrinking business). Crazy? That's the Greek tax brackets for you. Meanwhile: I have to pay for my own hospital plan because in case I get sick I have to notify the public insurance carrier 15 days in advance of emergency surgery (no kidding!) or 3-4 months before booking an appointment with a doctor. I have to get an additional, expensive pension plan on top of the 350 Euros per month I am currently paying as mandatory social security because there will be no money when I'm 67 years old or have worked 40+ years to get the minimum pension of 700 Euros (nominal; actual payment after taxes and mandatory social security is around 480 Euros). I also need to set aside money to get the kids I'm planning on having to a private school because there are no teachers (not even substitutes) half of the time in the public schools.
If you are wondering why people tax evade you have to first ask the questions: 1. how much does the state take in taxes and 2. what does the state offer for the money it takes from its citizens? If the answers are "most of your money" and "not that much at all" respectively it doesn't take a genius to see why you get an endemic tax evasion for free.
Anyway. After three years of battling the system I gave up and moved away. My last tax filing in Greece was 2014 for my income in 2013. I am owed a 13,000 Euro tax return since August 10th, 2014. Of course it's NOT credited. And we're talking about money I have paid as a tax downpayment to the state since August 2013. They hold my money hostage for 2 years and they won't give it to me. Also, don't make the mistake of asking whether there's an interest rate for those two years. Don't be silly. There's not! Adding insult to injury I'm still a Greek tax citizen which means I get to pay taxes for the dividends I'm paid from my company abroad. Don't be ridiculous, of course they are NOT offset by the money the Greek state owes me! I have so far paid another 40+ thousand Euro taxes in these two years where the Greek state owes me the 13,000 Euro tax return.
I understand all this sounds alien to you. Why so much taxation, why no services in return, why the state isn't punctual in paying back. Beats me, brothers and sisters. I have concluded that one must be outright insane to try and do business if they're born in Greece.

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  #367  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:15
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

All the southern countries evade paying their taxes if they can and have done so for decades. If they hadn't have done so perhaps the tax brackets might not be so high in the first place.

And anyway if you think that's bad my OH's grandfather was paying 19 shillings and 6 pence tax for every 20 shillings (a pound) earned in the UK during WWII - 99.25%. Now that's eye-watering. Rates didn't really drop too much until Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister.
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Old 09.07.2015, 11:24
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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All the southern countries evade paying their taxes if they can and have done so for decades. If they hadn't have done so perhaps the tax brackets might not be so high in the first place.

And anyway if you think that's bad my OH's grandfather was paying 19 shillings and 6 pence tax for every 20 shillings (a pound) earned in the UK during WWII - 99.25%. Now that's eye-watering. Rates didn't really drop too much until Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister.
UK has always had tax bands, so that was only on the top slice of income. I suspect it was investment income which had a 15% surcharge.

The highest UK tax rate ever was introduced by Roy Jenkins in 1968, the maximum rate payable was 136%. With exchange controls you could not leave the UK & take your money with you.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 09.07.2015 at 12:01.
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  #369  
Old 09.07.2015, 12:46
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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UK has always had tax bands, so that was only on the top slice of income. I suspect it was investment income which had a 15% surcharge.

The highest UK tax rate ever was introduced by Roy Jenkins in 1968, the maximum rate payable was 136%. With exchange controls you could not leave the UK & take your money with you.
That wasn't a tax on income though, but unearned income.

"These penal rates were imposed on high earners during the 1968 economic crisis as a special income tax levy for one year only on "unearned income" or savings and investment returns."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...king-pips.html

But yeah, Greece has still got a way to go to match that.

And, from the Telegraph article, something for all spendthrift goverments to remember: "Cutting top-rate taxes to 40 per cent actually increased the revenue generated because people were less encouraged by the unfairness of the system to find ways to avoid paying."
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  #370  
Old 09.07.2015, 13:13
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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my OH's grandfather was paying 19 shillings and 6 pence tax for every 20 shillings (a pound) earned in the UK during WWII - 99.25%.
No, that's 97,5%.

Tom
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  #371  
Old 09.07.2015, 13:18
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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The highest UK tax rate ever was introduced by Roy Jenkins in 1968, the maximum rate payable was 136%. With exchange controls you could not leave the UK & take your money with you.
Which is why it was the golden age of banking for the Isle of Man.
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  #372  
Old 09.07.2015, 13:40
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Which is why it was the golden age of banking for the Isle of Man.
At the time, rich Brits who had foreign earnings squirrelled them away in a numbered bank account in Switzerland, & could draw the money when abroad. Funny that SBC & UBS had branches in most capital cities , long before the exchange of information & pre money laundering restrictions.
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Old 09.07.2015, 13:49
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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At the time, rich Brits who had foreign earnings squirrelled them away in a numbered bank account in Switzerland, & could draw the money when abroad. Funny that SBC & UBS had branches in most capital cities , long before the exchange of information & pre money laundering restrictions.


I am sorry but I do NOT see anything funny. SBV and SBG, the UBS of today and the SKA/CS needed to have branches in major cities around the globe in order to facilitate international trade and to assist the export industry
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  #374  
Old 09.07.2015, 14:28
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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No, that's 97,5%.

Tom
Never was particularly good at math - or arithmatic as they called it in my day!
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  #375  
Old 09.07.2015, 14:38
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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I am sorry but I do NOT see anything funny. SBV and SBG, the UBS of today and the SKA/CS needed to have branches in major cities around the globe in order to facilitate international trade and to assist the export industry
Well you come from a country where tax evasion is not a criminal offence, 20 years ago turning up at a Bank in CH with 10,000,000 in cash did not even raise an eyebrow. If you wanted to change a numbered account without a trail because a family member found out about an account, you would draw cash & walk across the road.
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  #376  
Old 09.07.2015, 14:41
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Never was particularly good at math - or arithmatic as they called it in my day!
In my day they were even so bold as to call it arithmetic.
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  #377  
Old 09.07.2015, 14:45
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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This is why I think we must all agree that Greece cannot be part of the Eurozone, but rather a poor, cheap, beautiful destination for our summer holidays.
Albania and Turkey already are fulfilling this function.
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  #378  
Old 09.07.2015, 14:50
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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No, that's 97,5%.

Tom
No, that's 97.5%.

Phil :P
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  #379  
Old 09.07.2015, 15:23
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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No, that's 97.5%.

Phil :P
Are those imperial percents or decimal percents?
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  #380  
Old 09.07.2015, 15:58
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

While the UK tax structure is interesting, its discussion/debate is dragging this a bit off-topic...perhaps the UK system needs its own thread?
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