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  #61  
Old 13.05.2011, 10:25
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Why is china buying spanish debt? They bought for more than 25billions euros.
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  #62  
Old 13.05.2011, 10:32
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

They are diversifying their Currency Risk portfolio, as Dollar is loosing its value and EUR just might be the next universal currency.

Also all those Euros notes printed as part of Quantitative Easings need a home, somewhere offshore not to cause inflation on the continent.

I mean all those notes they printed, they didnt give them to the poor who were gettign their homes and assets repossessed, but to the same banks who were repossessing them?!

EU is also reconsidering countries on its Preferential Trade status, which means some countries which were on there before will no longer be there, like Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Russia but some new countries.

Imports from Libya still enjoy preference status, i.e. you dont have to pay Customs duty for importing them. So much for the war with Ghaddafi
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  #63  
Old 14.05.2011, 04:56
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How about getting rid of Greece? It's just causing problems all the time...
Who should take over that territory ?
-
Albania ?
Macedonia ? to the pleasure of old King Philipp II ?
Bulgaria ? getting it full access to the Med !
Turkey ? allowing Turkey swiftly into the EU

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Why is china buying spanish debt? They bought for more than 25billions euros.
Spain had a relatively minor banking problem but a MAJOR real-estate crash domestically. But Spain, quite unlike Greece, has a real economic base. And so, to invest in Spanish debts is investing into the future. They possibly also will invest or already have invested in Portugal and Ireland. And so, pave their way to become a REAL world power.

Such things are interesting. A former banker just on Thursday explained to me what was done wrongly by the Swiss National Bank. The problem is that they started intervening two or three months too early, at a moment when the Euro in reality was OVERvalued against the CHF, and stopped when they ought to have started. The timing therefore is important. And the Chinese experts possibly get their timings quite correctly

Last edited by jrspet; 14.05.2011 at 05:07. Reason: Merging of successive posts
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  #64  
Old 14.05.2011, 05:13
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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T
EU is also reconsidering countries on its Preferential Trade status, which means some countries which were on there before will no longer be there, like Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Russia but some new countries.
-
Saudi Arabia only has to join the main part of the Arab World, ranging from Morocco to Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, and then will be part of the Mediterranean Partnership. As the KSA major export however is oil, there is no real urgency for them.

Russia in the longer term, just like Turkey, will become a major member of the E.U., and so, such a Bilateral thing would just be a step in the right way

Brazil, in spite of its size, and in spite of its membership in many organisations of the Americas, in reality is ISOLATED in Latin America, culturally and linguistically. As old Germany Chancellor Helmut Schmidt said "50% of the economy is psychology". And then you get the picture.

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Imports from Libya still enjoy preference status, i.e. you dont have to pay Customs duty for importing them. So much for the war with Ghaddafi
-
Libya in political terms still is ONE country. And this means that the anti-Khaddafi rebels in Cyrenaika NEED this preferential status, even if the Khaddafi dominated Tripolitania also, at least theoretically, profits from this status. In fact, beside the Cyrenaika, also most of the Fezzan is now on the side of the rebels. And the latest news show that the rebels succeed in getting more dominance even in part of Tripolitania.
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  #65  
Old 14.05.2011, 21:44
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Who should take over that territory ?
i reckon we should get switzerland to take over and run it.
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  #66  
Old 14.05.2011, 21:54
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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i reckon we should get switzerland to take over and run it.
Can you then live in Greece on a 120K chf budget per year?
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  #67  
Old 15.05.2011, 01:00
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Why is china buying spanish debt? They bought for more than 25billions euros.
as already posted " diversifying their Currency Risk portfolio"

Plus for use as a future bargaining chip - look what good guys we are!!
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  #68  
Old 16.06.2011, 21:30
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Greece isn't leaving the EUR anytime soon...even if they get kicked they will stick to it with their teeth.
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  #69  
Old 16.06.2011, 21:37
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Spain had a relatively minor banking problem but a MAJOR real-estate crash domestically. But Spain, quite unlike Greece, has a real economic base. And so, to invest in Spanish debts is investing into the future. They possibly also will invest or already have invested in Portugal and Ireland. And so, pave their way to become a REAL world power.

Such things are interesting. A former banker just on Thursday explained to me what was done wrongly by the Swiss National Bank. The problem is that they started intervening two or three months too early, at a moment when the Euro in reality was OVERvalued against the CHF, and stopped when they ought to have started. The timing therefore is important. And the Chinese experts possibly get their timings quite correctly
Reasons why the outlook for Spain is dim:
1.Debt is 270% of GDP
2. 1.6 million unsold properties -6 times worse than US (on a per capita basis)
3. Austerity and credit downgrades are usually a bad combo
4. Dim growth outlook
5. Greek-style protests that prevent austerity measures being implemented...
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  #70  
Old 16.06.2011, 21:45
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

Spain produces some very tasty food. Unlike some economies which changed fundamentally to enter crazy financial markets before the crash, Spain just grew stuff, produced wine, and had tourism.

Property prices went crazy and have now crashed, but eventually Spain will simply revert to living quite happily on what it did before. In other words, I don't think it's in a mess.
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  #71  
Old 16.06.2011, 21:54
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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According to latest news there are discussions to have greece leaving the euro zone.
Leave, and go where, exactly?

any currency they issue is going to be worth less than toilet paper...
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  #72  
Old 16.06.2011, 22:09
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Spain produces some very tasty food. Unlike some economies which changed fundamentally to enter crazy financial markets before the crash, Spain just grew stuff, produced wine, and had tourism.


.
This would play out perfectly had they kept their pisita. Tourism in Spain became comparatively pricier with the arrival of the EUR.
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  #73  
Old 16.06.2011, 22:10
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Leave, and go where, exactly?

any currency they issue is going to be worth less than toilet paper...
Greece is either going to emerge victorious -take on bailouts and change terms in their favour- or they're ready to take down the entire union if need be.
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  #74  
Old 16.06.2011, 23:02
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Spain produces some very tasty food. Unlike some economies which changed fundamentally to enter crazy financial markets before the crash, Spain just grew stuff, produced wine, and had tourism.

Property prices went crazy and have now crashed, but eventually Spain will simply revert to living quite happily on what it did before. In other words, I don't think it's in a mess.
Spain was also attractive for tourism because it was relatively cheap, especially compared to places like France and even Italy. Likewise (with some notable exceptions) Spanish wine is good enough but not really top notch. People really only drink it because it's better than the French, Italian etc wines its competing against in the same price class. Ditto for vegetables. Ditto for SEAT cars. Ditto for almost anything that comes out of Spain. And Spain is a lot more than just food and tourism. There is quite a lot of heavy manufacturing and engineering industry (especially, but not exclusively in the North) and quite a lot of what they make is exported because they still benefit from relatively low labour costs. That's why companies like Ford relocated a lot of their production there. But there are also Spanish engineering companies who have good know-how and technologies and are making good products - so it's not the price alone but having low proices definitely helps them export.

In the old days, Spain regularly kept its prices down by devaluing the Peseta. I remember the days that you could get a decent meal for 300 to 500 pesetas. In the final years before th Euro came in the same meal would have been 1000 to 2000. That was still about 10 Euros but those days are now gone too.

Becuase Spain is no longer able to devalue its currency it is slolwy becoming uncompetitive in industry, in agriculture, in tourism etc etc. Spain would gain massively from returning to the Peseta IMHO.
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Old 16.06.2011, 23:03
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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This would play out perfectly had they kept their pisita. Tourism in Spain became comparatively pricier with the arrival of the EUR.
It's still very good value. A meal out in parts of Spain hasn't really up in price over the last few years, whereas other destinations, such as Asia, have gone up quite a lot recently.

Most of the farmers sell direct to the restaurants, wines as well as meats, fruits and veg. This means they're able to keep costs quite low. Of course, once you get to imported stuff it's the same price as everywhere, but apart from property I don't think the Spaniards jumped on any particular bandwaggons that they have now fallen off of.

The Chinese aren't just "buying debt" they're also setting up many wholesale shops around the place (Costa Blanca is the area I know) and are selling all sorts of cheap household stuff at prices not to disimilar to what I've seen them for in Beijing.

Based on not a great deal of experience, admittedly, I think Spain's gonna do just fine. Property speculators got burnt (don't care) and there is corruption in some of the Comunitats (I think that's the right word, like canton) but it's all coming out into the open and most of it involved land which isn't worth much any more!

EDIT as I've just seen the above post: Two days ago I had a four course meal, with half a bottle of wine, all excellent local produce, for 10€. That included a 1€ tip. Of course, it wasn't the best wine, but it went OK with the food.
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  #76  
Old 16.06.2011, 23:05
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Greece is either going to emerge victorious -take on bailouts and change terms in their favour- or they're ready to take down the entire union if need be.
Guess it won't take us long to know what will happen, my assumption is the unless EU really revise their policies, Euro will collapse in matter of 2 years.

Honestly, i don't think Greece, Spain and Portugal are the biggest problem, USA, UK, France are the really big deal and no one really know when this will strike

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
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Old 16.06.2011, 23:35
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Guess it won't take us long to know what will happen, my assumption is the unless EU really revise their policies, Euro will collapse in matter of 2 years.

Honestly, i don't think Greece, Spain and Portugal are the biggest problem, USA, UK, France are the really big deal and no one really know when this will strike

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
To tell you the truth, the entire global economy is extremely fragile. China has its problems as well;only a few countries are exempt. Why Greece is important though it represents a mere 0.05% of world economy is that it can trigger the downfall of all those countries you mentioned and more...just like Lehman brought down almost every major bank with it in 2008.
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  #78  
Old 16.06.2011, 23:37
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Greece is either going to emerge victorious -take on bailouts and change terms in their favour- or they're ready to take down the entire union if need be.
and that's the trouble. it actually makes more sense for them to threaten to go down and take everyone with them, than to endure more pain in the form of budget cuts ...
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  #79  
Old 17.06.2011, 00:04
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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i reckon we should get switzerland to take over and run it.
Switzerland on the Mediterranean


and a neighbour of Turkey


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Old 17.06.2011, 00:08
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Re: Greece discussing leaving the Euro Zone (Spiegel Online)

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Leave, and go where, exactly?

any currency they issue is going to be worth less than toilet paper...
but
A) of course worth less as toilet paper is useful
B) THIS toilet-paper will need to be financed by the E.U. !
C) Greece still will be a European country
D) Greece will prove not to be able to print the new banknotes
E) Germany will do the print and deliver free of charge
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