It means, we are talking about womens rights in Saudi. It means, let's hear what a Saudi woman has to say on the subject, not some bloke from.... where are you from?

The "mutaween" Vs our wonderful legal system.

The one who release regularly criminals such as Marc Dutrouc's wife. The one who was already jailed for similar crime, got released early. Then started again letting 2 girls die of starvation while she could save them.

Nice.

Again, i'm not defending brutish justice like "mutaween" but I think we should have a look at our legal system prior to give any critics elsewhere.

"However saying "yeah but it's just in public that they can't show their faces" is an apologist remark."

Of course this is not what I said. Are you always this patronizing and dismissive of other people's opinions?

I said women can show their faces but not in public. I have been to many dinner parties with Saudi men and women at homes where the women were showing their faces and expressing strong opinions.

They can't they are not allowed to have a computer.

This is a public talkboard and I am discussing this subject about women's rights. What has where I come from got to do with it? Why are you being so rude?

I would like to make an observation, but this is not a mediation attempt.
I understand why ChateauX wrote the way he did, I think the problem is this.
We all know the bedouin mentality of the ruling elite in the royal kingdom of Saudi, we also know of the frustration of the younger generation who are struggling to live in a hypocrisy filled way of life in the name of their religion. we know about the abuse since generations of women and foreign workers in the country.
However why does it still exist? Because nobody did anything about it and welcomed with open arms the Saudi people into western society for their wealth and their oil.
If Chateau X writes that he thinks their society is fair, its like a child that was never taught right from wrong and so assumes its all ok.
Is not the hypocrisy with us for not saying, you mistreat your people like that then youre not welcome here, instead of behaving like a drooling hotel manager on the right bank in Geneva on the first day of July?
For those that care, I have been to Saudi Arabia many times. I am equally guilty therefore of setting aside my principles in pursuit of business.

Im astounded you somehow think this is okay. To be clear, you think that the fact that women are allowed to show their faces and express opinion at dinner parties but not allowed to show their faces in public, is perfectly reasonable ?

I'm not saying its ok. What I'm saying is that what goes on in public is quite different to what goes on in private in Saudi.

Did you know that Saudi has one of the most flourishing gay scenes in the world? In private you can do what you want and no one, not even the Mutaween, can touch you, not even homosexuals.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...e-closet/5774/

Yeah but it seems like you are defending it. You mentioned before the giving of public money to Libyan rebels. Well, I think that's a pretty noble thing to do. You also mentioned the British expenses "scandal". After reading this thread I want to go out and buy all those ministers a Lexus, so thankful am I that I get to be a British citizen rather than Saudi.

a lot of them are willing to do so. Because they've been educated to think like that and they think it's right.

Example: if Sahia (fake name) would not hide her face in public places she would feel like Paris Hilton, or amy winehouse or other ed up.

Who would like to feel like them?

YES BUT IT'S ILLEGAL. The government is desperately trying to decapitate every homosexual they can find. Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Do you have even the slightest idea why they are not allowed to show their faces in public?
Chill, I just answered your post.

I did not mean to condone or approve of women's status in Saudi Arabia I meant to draw attention to the fact that the place is not all bad. I also meant that our own society sees women in a strange way or why else would they inject their heads with poison (botox) or place plastic jellies in their breasts. Whilst things are far from perfect they are at least headed slowly in the right direction...

From http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article396218.ece in an article published today:

Saudi women 'gaining ground after long struggle'

RIYADH: The late introduction of women’s education in Saudi Arabia has not limited their ability to make considerable gains and rights.

On the local front, Saudi women have been able to reach official decision-making positions in a number of ministries.

...Although Al-Abideen has made a long list of rights that have not yet been achieved, she said many successes were attained. She recalled that a number of Saudi women were well positioned locally and internationally. She mentioned in this regard Thuraya Obaid of the UN Population Fund and Lubna Olayan, who is a renowned investor in the international financial markets.

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No you were being rude.

Dear Pot,

bite me.

bestus,
the kettle.

I'm defending against easy critics and try to encourage our own self criticism prior to stand as "lesson givers" to the other countries/cultures.

Money to Lybian Rebels? You have your opinion.
It's a DEMOCRACY, power to the people. I think the french citizen should be asked for such "donations" from their own hard money, especially on those hard times.
Also yeah because Lybians are bad. Funny a year or two ago, our own "politicians" where best friends with Khadafi, inviting him, paying him huge things in the name of France. Now that the public opinion turned it's the enemy? How convenient.

British Expense scandal? what's so noble about it?
That hundreds of thousands of British citizen have no job while politicians retard who sworn to serve their country actually abuse it?


The point is not to be against British or Saoudians, or to chose a side.
It's to have a constructive self criticism look about ourselves.

Which seems very difficult although providing critics against other countries seems much easier.

Illegal yes in public. "Desperately" no. Did you read that article I posted?

You don't know where they're headed. With one hand the royal family gives women some rights, and with they other they close 200 student newspapers. The royal family releases not one iota of their grip on power. But congrats for buying into the "media hype" which I what I was accused of doing.

This is a public talkboard so you'll get people on here you won't agree with. There's really no need to be so rude.

Did you meet some saudi girls when they get out of their country? I did.

Believe me, they wear clothes that would make Paris Hilton look like a religious sister.