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  #21  
Old 17.05.2011, 10:38
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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$1 trillion is held by China....800-900 bilion by Japan...

here is a better breakdown...in real time

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Nice link. Where do you see the split of held debt per country?

Can someone explain in simple words what "restructuring" the debt means for Greece ?
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  #22  
Old 17.05.2011, 10:38
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Any ideas? asked GG...

I think at times like these a country must look inwards and invest in manufacturing. It is hugely expensive but provides jobs and over time the country can haul itself up again.

If you can manufacture white label goods, clothes etc that everybody needs then that is a start. Over time more people get employed and can afford to buy what they make etc, and the country becomes more self sufficient.

I'm an engineer/musician and not an economist so I'm sure there are a million theories why this doesn't work, but to me it makes sense. (that's why I'm not an economist probably :-) )
It works in a scenario where the country does not already have massive debt exposure, but who will invest in manufacturing in a country that will tax anything that moves right up the ying yang in order to repay its debt?
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  #23  
Old 17.05.2011, 10:52
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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It works in a scenario where the country does not already have massive debt exposure, but who will invest in manufacturing in a country that will tax anything that moves right up the ying yang in order to repay its debt?
Well of course you have to default first or ask for a 25 year payment holiday, then you're not bothered about foreign investors.
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Old 17.05.2011, 10:54
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Can someone explain in simple words what "restructuring" the debt means for Greece ?
Debt "restructuring", in simple terms would be something like, you have debt on one credit card and you move the balance to another credit card which offers you discounted interest rate for initial few months and then goes up astronomically after that.

The debt still remains, but just some more people make money on "admin charges."

For Greece, it would mean help them and ease the repayment pressure in a short term i.e. postponing the inevitable till the responsible people have moved elsewhere withtheir savings, enjoying a luxurious life and the next (Socialist) government can deal with it.
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Old 17.05.2011, 10:54
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle...in Athens?
Based on the taxi driver who tried to charge me €150 for a €7 trip... probably not...
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  #26  
Old 17.05.2011, 10:55
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Well of course you have to default first or ask for a 25 year payment holiday, then you're not bothered about foreign investors.
Yep , unfortunately that 25 yr payment holiday is our pensions - will you wait 25 yrs for your pension ?
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Old 17.05.2011, 10:57
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Yep , unfortunately that 25 yr payment holiday is our pensions - will you wait 25 yrs for your pension ?
Probably work until the day I die anyway, what difference does it make?
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  #28  
Old 17.05.2011, 10:57
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Nice link. Where do you see the split of held debt per country?

Can someone explain in simple words what "restructuring" the debt means for Greece ?
per country split i read elsewhere...shows the high level stuff only
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  #29  
Old 17.05.2011, 11:02
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Probably work until the day I die anyway, what difference does it make?
If you would kindly sign here.........
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  #30  
Old 18.05.2011, 13:23
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

I would say that the EC Central Bank / EC Parliament; The IMF and all the governments of the West are living in some kind of fantasy.
With the debts[ it is more like pass the parcel around in that if a country/big bank defaults; someone else is going to get hit with debts and as everyone has been totally dishonest, actually do not know where they will stand when they are hit.
Spain will be gone by November 2011; that is pretty much a certainty.

The people of Germany are not going to accept to pay for basically poor management /government cock-ups. They already had a 5% tax surcharge for the re-unification of East Germany.

I would look at the situation like this.
Imagine you are at home paying all your bills on time and driving your family VW Golf, doing DIY on the weekends and going on a holiday once a year on a package deal and have put money aside for hard times.
Your neighbour however is driving a big Mercedes; boasting how they have been on three holidays in 5 star hotels and that they have just been to New York for a shopping weekend have vthe full Sky satellite package and a 50" LED TV.
Then somebody knocks on your door and tells you that you neighbours are actually in debt and skint and that you have a duty to help them out of their financial dilemma.
Would you want to help your neighbour out?
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  #31  
Old 18.05.2011, 13:31
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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I would say that the EC Central Bank / EC Parliament; The IMF and all the governments of the West are living in some kind of fantasy.
With the debts[ it is more like pass the parcel around in that if a country/big bank defaults; someone else is going to get hit with debts and as everyone has been totally dishonest, actually do not know where they will stand when they are hit.
Spain will be gone by November 2011; that is pretty much a certainty.

The people of Germany are not going to accept to pay for basically poor management /government cock-ups. They already had a 5% tax surcharge for the re-unification of East Germany.

I would look at the situation like this.
Imagine you are at home paying all your bills on time and driving your family VW Golf, doing DIY on the weekends and going on a holiday once a year on a package deal and have put money aside for hard times.
Your neighbour however is driving a big Mercedes; boasting how they have been on three holidays in 5 star hotels and that they have just been to New York for a shopping weekend have vthe full Sky satellite package and a 50" LED TV.
Then somebody knocks on your door and tells you that you neighbours are actually in debt and skint and that you have a duty to help them out of their financial dilemma.
Would you want to help your neighbour out?

if all the cr@p they own would be used as collateral at 50% of the market value and the interest rate high enough sure ...
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  #32  
Old 18.05.2011, 13:48
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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if all the cr@p they own would be used as collateral at 50% of the market value and the interest rate high enough sure ...
Perhaps the Greeks should put up their islands as collateral for the loans just like the banks would want/demand from us when we borrow.
Hang-on though; isn't this the whole idea of the EC parliament; to take control of Europe for themselves?
And to think that most of the MEPs are actually failed politicians (Kinock family comes to mind) and yet they appear to be running the show and can't even account (no audit report of finances) for their parliament finances.
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Old 18.05.2011, 13:52
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Perhaps the Greeks should put up their islands as collateral for the loans just like the banks would want/demand from us when we borrow.
Hang-on though; isn't this the whole idea of the EC parliament; to take control of Europe for themselves?
And to think that most of the MEPs are actually failed politicians (Kinock family comes to mind) and yet they appear to be running the show and can't even account (no audit report of finances) for their parliament finances.
Talking of islands, is it just a coincidnece that all the countries which are in economic and financial crisis (PIGS) are in a way frontier Countries of the Europe? Plenty of islands to setup outposts and bases?

Did I outsmart myself there?
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  #34  
Old 18.05.2011, 15:25
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Talking of islands, is it just a coincidnece that all the countries which are in economic and financial crisis (PIGS) are in a way frontier Countries of the Europe? Plenty of islands to setup outposts and bases?

Did I outsmart myself there?
The point is that its we are damned if we do and damned if we don`t. Thats why its a pr excercise on selling the idea of a "reprofiling" of the greek debt which makes my blood boil. This tosser thinks he can repeat the "subprime" effect with a "reprofiling" and that we are stupid enough to swallow it. If people have to be hung from the streetlamp, then its w@nkers like him that need to go first.
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Old 18.05.2011, 15:29
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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14 month salarys instead of restricting public sector pay, massive borrowing compared to income and looking behind and seeing parents there to bail them out.
With a slight alteration to your quote Grumpygit ........Sounds much like a child with pocket money and no idea how to budget it...?
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Old 18.05.2011, 15:37
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

Yep, in as much as this child knew full well that no matter how much he spent, his parents would bail him out! As I said earlier, this situation will bring down several governments and is proof once more that the eurozone creation was built on a plethora of good intentions and zero common sense nor written rules.
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Old 18.05.2011, 15:39
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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The point is that its we are damned if we do and damned if we don`t. Thats why its a pr excercise on selling the idea of a "reprofiling" of the greek debt which makes my blood boil. This tosser thinks he can repeat the "subprime" effect with a "reprofiling" and that we are stupid enough to swallow it. If people have to be hung from the streetlamp, then its w@nkers like him that need to go first.
I would'nt say Im a financial guru (coz I know I am ) but one thing is common sense. All the worlds "restructurings" and all the worlds "reprofilings" and "quantitative easings would not make the debt go away, in Greece or elsewhere. All that it is doing is just buying more time and inflating the debt snowball even more, consequently.

Its like extending the game of musical chairs, everyone hoping to prolong it till they have passed the parcel to the next person as it is not something you want to be holding on to.

Last edited by Wasted; 18.05.2011 at 15:51.
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Old 18.05.2011, 15:43
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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I would'nt say Im a financial gury (coz I know I am ) but one thing is common sense. All the worlds restructurings and all the worlds "reprofilings" and "quantitative easings would not make the debt go away, in Greece or elsewhere. All that it is doing is just buying more time and inflating the debt snowball even more consequently.

Its like extending the game of musical chairs, everyone hoping to prolong it till they have passed the parcel to the next person as it is not something you want to be holding on to.
I totally agree. My problem is that they think we are too stupid to understand
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Old 18.05.2011, 15:47
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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I totally agree. My problem is that they think we are too stupid to understand
Certainly in most countries; people don't understand or want to understand.
As long as for example in the UK; they can watch East Enders; they don't give a hoot until it is too late.

Saying that; China has also been (QE) printing money for years to pay for labour for expansion and building its infrastructure; it is just a case of it not being publicised.

With regard to Greece; it is probable that what is happening in Greece will spread across Europe:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12204029
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Old 18.05.2011, 15:48
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Certainly in most countries; people don't understand or want to understand.
As long as for example in the UK; they can watch East Enders; they don't give a hoot until it is too late.

Saying that; China has also been (QE) printing money for years to pay for labour for expansion and building its infrastructure; it is just a case of it not being publicised.
I watch Eastenders too
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