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  #81  
Old 27.05.2011, 19:19
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

Greece and Spain seem to have been spending more than they take in. To save themselves from bankruptcy it only seems logical that the countries cut their spending. So what are the protesters exactly protesting about and what exactly do they wanna be done differently?
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  #82  
Old 27.05.2011, 19:56
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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You can't be serious... a country can't just default on its international obligations.. not only would be morally questionable but it would simply mean there is no way it could refinance its debt meaning highway to bankruptancy.
Retirement age to 67 for everyone (like those who are bailing them out like Germany), heavy handed fight against corruption and drastic cuts in the overblown public sector. It is going in the right direction currently, but the EU certainly doesn't trust the Greek govt. too much.
Why can it not default on its International Obligations?
Do these countries, banks etc. have charges on anything? I don't think so.
I actually believe that Greece, Ireland etc would be better off just defaulting.
I also believe that Ireland, Greece and Portugal are all waiting for each other to go bust to see what happens.
Anyway, when Spain goes down the pan in November 2011 that will be the end.
I also cannot see the reason that the other members are so keen to protect these countries remaining in the Euro. I would actually argue that if we could go back three years, the governments would probably not have nbailed the banks out as they have done. Perhaps somebody can give me a logical reason?
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  #83  
Old 27.05.2011, 20:03
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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I want to know who has the $14.3 trillion, exactly? It must be somewhere, surely?
maybe some of it is here
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  #84  
Old 27.05.2011, 22:40
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Greece and Spain seem to have been spending more than they take in. To save themselves from bankruptcy it only seems logical that the countries cut their spending. So what are the protesters exactly protesting about and what exactly do they wanna be done differently?
Maybe they are hungry?
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  #85  
Old 27.05.2011, 22:49
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Today
$= 0.85xx chf
euro= 1.21xx chf

I think the ecb & SNB are just spectators like the rest of us
Now
$= 0.84xx chf
euro= 1.21xx chf
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  #86  
Old 27.05.2011, 22:58
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Maybe they are hungry?
Yeah but what is the alternative to what is being done?
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  #87  
Old 27.05.2011, 23:13
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Yeah but what is the alternative to what is being done?
pass
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  #88  
Old 27.05.2011, 23:21
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

the CHF is going to keep appreciating until it is hit by an earthquake, tsunami or a tornado.

Picture this:
$= .70chf
Eur= .85 chf

What would you do??
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  #89  
Old 27.05.2011, 23:24
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Why can it not default on its International Obligations?
The international obligations are owed mainly to European banks -namely French. How will they feel? imagine all the write offs on their balance sheets err
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  #90  
Old 28.05.2011, 14:34
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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The international obligations are owed mainly to European banks -namely French. How will they feel? imagine all the write offs on their balance sheets err
AND ?

What is the difference between that and a company being knocked by a customer going bust?
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  #91  
Old 28.05.2011, 15:13
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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AND ?

What is the difference between that and a company being knocked by a customer going bust?
They're too big to fail. They're the skeleton of modern economies; market panic, and a run on the ultra-safe money market funds, threatening cash flows to all businesses. It's a free-market bug. --I am being sarcastic

The difference: this time, the ECB can push with austerity measures as the one in debt here is an EU government. You obviously couldn't do this with a non-EU country or a regular customer.
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  #92  
Old 28.05.2011, 16:05
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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They're too big to fail. They're the skeleton of modern economies; market panic, and a run on the ultra-safe money market funds, threatening cash flows to all businesses. It's a free-market bug. --I am being sarcastic

The difference: this time, the ECB can push with austerity measures as the one in debt here is an EU government. You obviously couldn't do this with a non-EU country or a regular customer.
Lets see what happens to Greece BUT I believe that Greece will go bankrupt in the end and be out of the Euro.
I actually do not understand what the big fuss is about having Greece in the Euro.
As I have already said; Spain will be gone by November 2011 and I am now expecting Italy to go in 2012 and end up pulling out of Euro. Italy will be a country Parmalat situation probably.
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  #93  
Old 28.05.2011, 18:08
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Lets see what happens to Greece BUT I believe that Greece will go bankrupt in the end and be out of the Euro.
I actually do not understand what the big fuss is about having Greece in the Euro.
As I have already said; Spain will be gone by November 2011 and I am now expecting Italy to go in 2012 and end up pulling out of Euro. Italy will be a country Parmalat situation probably.
Probably. Club Med isnt really fit for a monetary union with the rest of the EU. But then so is BElgium & some others. It's either a fiscal union with a one european government or else it wont work. Even if it is prolonged for decades.

Bis fuss about Greece: its psychology. If one member exits or is forced out it conveys that the EU is cracking.
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  #94  
Old 28.05.2011, 18:18
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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What i was replying was that if Greece defaulted, what would stop the other "pigs" plus others doing the same bringing an ugly end to eurozone , incidentally, as predicted by more than one a few years ago.
If Greece defaults and leaves the Eurozone, I don't see why this should bring any kind of ugly end to the Eurozone.



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You can't be serious... a country can't just default on its international obligations.. not only would be morally questionable but it would simply mean there is no way it could refinance its debt meaning highway to bankruptancy.
1. I don't see the point in raising moral questions when we talk about banks. I remind you they are the same kind of people that took billions of bailout money and next year paid out millions of bonuses to their top management....
I want Greece to stop paying back the money it owes to private financial institutions, at least until the economy starts functioning again.
And I really hope this will make them stop lending money to Greece forever in the future. This would be the only way to make sure that Greek politicians won't spend more than what the country can afford.
As a Greek I love my country, and the best thing that can happen to my country would be its total ban from financial markets.
Unfortunately this is not gonna happen. Just see how Argentina is borrowing money again.
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  #95  
Old 28.05.2011, 18:57
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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I want Greece to stop paying back the money it owes to private financial institutions, at least until the economy starts functioning again.
Those institutions are EU banks. Their governments do not want them to lose money and go back to them for bailouts. When the IMF bails out Greece, the bailout comes with an interest rate of 5.2% but still lower than the market's 17%. It also comes with a set of instructions on what to do & when to do it.

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And I really hope this will make them stop lending money to Greece forever in the future. This would be the only way to make sure that Greek politicians won't spend more than what the country can afford
There is no stopping until EU banks recover their cash or even some of it, orif something bigger happens.
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  #96  
Old 28.05.2011, 20:23
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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If Greece defaults and leaves the Eurozone, I don't see why this should bring any kind of ugly end to the Eurozone.


1. I don't see the point in raising moral questions when we talk about banks. I remind you they are the same kind of people that took billions of bailout money and next year paid out millions of bonuses to their top management....
I want Greece to stop paying back the money it owes to private financial institutions, at least until the economy starts functioning again.
And I really hope this will make them stop lending money to Greece forever in the future. This would be the only way to make sure that Greek politicians won't spend more than what the country can afford.
As a Greek I love my country, and the best thing that can happen to my country would be its total ban from financial markets.
Unfortunately this is not gonna happen. Just see how Argentina is borrowing money again.

That is _very_ diffficult.
Nobody would lend them money again - for a very long time.
(Actually, that's the case already, given the interest rates Greece would have to pay if the IMF and Europe wouldn't help)
Part of the money is actually owed to Greek people.
The Greeks themselves are withdrawing € from their own banks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13577853

Is this the beginning of the end?

Either way, the bill for a couple of decades of mismanagement is very huge - and it's being presented right now.
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