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Old 17.05.2011, 09:03
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Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

The Greek headache looks like getting worse with some observers now saying that the greek government has simply run out of money and therefore will have to cease payments to public sector etc.
Without wanting to paint a catastrophic scenario, I can`t see a solution to this problem as politically within Europe, I don`t see how any economy has either the strength nor will to add funds. I would say we could be very fortunate to live in Switzerland.
Anybody got any bright ideas ?
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:20
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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The Greek headache looks like getting worse with some observers now saying that the greek government has simply run out of money and therefore will have to cease payments to public sector etc.
Without wanting to paint a catastrophic scenario, I can`t see a solution to this problem as politically within Europe, I don`t see how any economy has either the strength nor will to add funds. I would say we could be very fortunate to live in Switzerland.
Anybody got any bright ideas ?
i think the only feasible option is default or at min restructuring of Greek debt. That is not to be seen as a bad thing...has happened before and countries recover quite quickly and are in the game shortly after.

More worrying is the US debt of $14.3 trillion. I'm surprised there is no wider panic related to this. The only way to keep going is to raise the debt ceiling and that will be a hard battle but still how much more will US need to borrow? there has to be a bottom somewhere right? imagine what happens to World economy (yes CH as well) when this does happen...
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:26
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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i think the only feasible option is default or at min restructuring of Greek debt. That is not to be seen as a bad thing...has happened before and countries recover quite quickly and are in the game shortly after.

More worrying is the US debt of $14.3 trillion. I'm surprised there is no wider panic related to this. The only way to keep going is to raise the debt ceiling and that will be a hard battle but still how much more will US need to borrow? there has to be a bottom somewhere right? imagine what happens to World economy (yes CH as well) when this does happen...
Default is one thing and I agree about the US debt ceiling although they are already saying that they expect a solution (print more) to come last minute. The Greek problem if I understand it now,is that aside from default on repayment of debt, they cannot maintain expenditure either as they have not respected their obligations on liquidation of state assets, so the country risks coming to a grinding halt. Thats the main problem as the whole civil service fails and the private bank lenders get hit with a massive default.
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:29
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

I'm still wondering how they screwed up such a beautiful country.

So many assets (sun, sea, food, sea strong position, etc...)
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:32
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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I'm still wondering how they screwed up such a beautiful country.

So many assets (sun, sea, food, sea strong position, etc...)
14 month salarys instead of restricting public sector pay, massive borrowing compared to income and looking behind and seeing europe there to bail them out.
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:36
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Default is one thing and I agree about the US debt ceiling although they are already saying that they expect a solution (print more) to come last minute. The Greek problem if I understand it now,is that aside from default on repayment of debt, they cannot maintain expenditure either as they have not respected their obligations on liquidation of state assets, so the country risks coming to a grinding halt. Thats the main problem as the whole civil service fails and the private bank lenders get hit with a massive default.
from what I read is the DE does not want to lend more money without a major change in the conditions of the additional package. They are right...why continue with a non-working plan?ECB wants to continue with the failing plan. Then some say that any tampering with the Greek austerity could mean a bigger disaster than Lehman collapse.

So I think there will be some sort of a restructuring that will need to happen...it is unlikely that Mr. Trichet will allow for the other option which is Greece getting out of Euro zone.
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:42
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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from what I read is the DE does not want to lend more money without a major change in the conditions of the additional package. They are right...why continue with a non-working plan?ECB wants to continue with the failing plan. Then some say that any tampering with the Greek austerity could mean a bigger disaster than Lehman collapse.

So I think there will be some sort of a restructuring that will need to happen...it is unlikely that Mr. Trichet will allow for the other option which is Greece getting out of Euro zone.
DE is saying no change to current terms of the bailout before 2013 and the 500 bln fund is in place as they feel this would be a total loss of credibility (ie euro meltdown)
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:47
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

just received this opinion:-


Meanwhile we have a new development in the Greek debt situation, with
(according to EU's Juncker last night) European finance ministers for the
first time floating the idea of talks with bondholders over extending
Greece's debt-repayment schedule. Europe would consider “reprofiling”
Greek bond maturities as part of a package including stepped-up sales of
state assets and deeper spending cuts, Juncker says. We have viewed a
reprofiling, conducted in a 'voluntary' way via a debt exchange and which
would not be classified as a credit (CDS) event as close to 50:50 likelihood
in our scenario analysis of the Greek debt situation. While there is a
concern that a reprofiling will be viewed as a tacit admission by
policymakers that an eventual formal debt restructuring is probably
inevitable and expect that this could weigh on the euro, we do not see
significant damage done if reprofiling does indeed occur. We way learn a
lot more during the course of today. For now expect the early week lows on
EURUSD near 1.4050 to hold though we do see 1.4000 as vulnerable in the days
ahead. Data wise we get ZEW today, with the current situation reading seen
rising to 87.5 from 87.1 but economic sentiment and business sentiment both
softer.

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Old 17.05.2011, 09:50
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

I want to know who has the $14.3 trillion, exactly? It must be somewhere, surely?
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:50
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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DE is saying no change to current terms of the bailout before 2013 and the 500 bln fund is in place as they feel this would be a total loss of credibility (ie euro meltdown)
to be exact DE wants to "gently" modify via light restructuring without affecting principal and coupon payments but extending bond maturities
ECB and other countries are not hot about this idea.

Portugal and the rest might need to face the restructuring as well. Obviously continued lending to the PIG's will only delay the inevitable once again.
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:51
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

Well, some countries will have to provide foot soldiers in the current wars and future wars in the making.

What can be better candidates then debt ridden countries with high unemployment.
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:54
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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I want to know who has the $14.3 trillion, exactly? It must be somewhere, surely?
$1 trillion is held by China....800-900 bilion by Japan...

here is a better breakdown...in real time

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:54
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

think it was Mark Twain who said something like
"If you owe a bank a thousand bucks then they own you
If you owe a bank a million bucks then you own them"

The loans to Greece are now too large for them to be allowed to fail regardless of rights & wrongs & regardless of whether the Greek Govt. is correctly doing their agreed actions.
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:56
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Well, some countries will have to provide foot soldiers in the current wars and future wars in the making.

What can be better candidates then debt ridden countries with high unemployment.
reminds me of a country on the other side of the ocean..hmmm...which is it
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:58
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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think it was Mark Twain who said something like
"If you owe a bank a thousand bucks then they own you
If you owe a bank a million bucks then you own them"

The loans to Greece are now too large for them to be allowed to fail regardless of rights & wrongs & regardless of whether the Greek Govt. is correctly doing their agreed actions.
Maybe Marton but my point was, who will stop them falling? The UK taxpayer? the German barely out of their own recession? the Dane, the Spaniard? Any government that continues to plough money into Greece doesnt need to work on its next election campaign.
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Old 17.05.2011, 09:59
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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$1 trillion is held by China....800-900 bilion by Japan...

here is a better breakdown...in real time

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Nice link - I thought China had about US$ 3 trillion?
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Old 17.05.2011, 10:03
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Nice link - I thought China had about US$ 3 trillion?
nah...rest is spread nicely between the rest..I think Russia has a few hundred bil as well...but who counts or wants to be bothered the hundreds of billions when we deal in trillions now
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Old 17.05.2011, 10:04
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Maybe Marton but my point was, who will stop them falling? The UK taxpayer? the German barely out of their own recession? the Dane, the Spaniard? Any government that continues to plough money into Greece doesnt need to work on its next election campaign.
Good points & I agree
I am not saying they will not fail but if/when they do then the whole euro system could likely crash down with them so people/banks/govts will take desperate measures to stop any failure.
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Old 17.05.2011, 10:05
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

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Maybe Marton but my point was, who will stop them falling? The UK taxpayer? the German barely out of their own recession? the Dane, the Spaniard? Any government that continues to plough money into Greece doesnt need to work on its next election campaign.
heard that France and Germany are the economic powerhouses of Europe..too bad the two countries do not agree on a lot between themselves.
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Old 17.05.2011, 10:36
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Re: Is 300 billion Euros enough for a normal lifestyle... in Athens?

Any ideas? asked GG...

I think at times like these a country must look inwards and invest in manufacturing. It is hugely expensive but provides jobs and over time the country can haul itself up again.

If you can manufacture white label goods, clothes etc that everybody needs then that is a start. Over time more people get employed and can afford to buy what they make etc, and the country becomes more self sufficient.

I'm an engineer/musician and not an economist so I'm sure there are a million theories why this doesn't work, but to me it makes sense. (that's why I'm not an economist probably :-) )
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