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  #41  
Old 31.05.2011, 18:13
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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What do you think?
I think that egyptians still have a long way to go before women and facts are respected.
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  #42  
Old 31.05.2011, 18:14
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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I think that egyptian still have a long way to go before women and facts are respected.
Maybe you're right and this is in many other countries in the world, though what is happening recently have nothing to do with this and it's pretty obvious it's a major campaign against the army
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  #43  
Old 31.05.2011, 18:20
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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I think that egyptians still have a long way to go before women and facts are respected.
How would you suggest Egyptians go about achieving this?
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  #44  
Old 31.05.2011, 18:22
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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How would you suggest Egyptians go about achieving this?
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  #45  
Old 31.05.2011, 18:35
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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It's good to be a mod: you can post whatever you like, even if it is completely non relevant to the thread.

Unless you imply that it's ok to rape as long as you seem to be Anti Israel.
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And the balance is ? How many rapes per border crossings is fair ? How many molested kids per charity work ?

Note that the Egyptian army allows only women to travel Visa free from Gaza - now we know why.
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I think that egyptians still have a long way to go before women and facts are respected.
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How would you suggest Egyptians go about achieving this?
I hate it when people bring in Logic into any sensible discussion.

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  #46  
Old 31.05.2011, 19:05
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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Proof that the military transition government is not all bad

Egypt Opens Rafah Crossing: This Is What Democracy Looks Like

Robert Naiman

There was a slogan on the streets of Seattle: "This is what democracy looks like." You can't love democracy and denigrate protest, because protest is part of democracy. It's a package deal.

Likewise, you can't claim solidarity with Egyptian protesters when they take down a dictator, but act horrified that the resulting government in Egypt, more accountable to Egyptian public opinion, is more engaged in supporting Palestinian rights. It's a package deal.

On Saturday, at long last, the Egyptian government "permanently opened" the Egypt-Gaza passenger crossing at Rafah. A big part of the credit for this long-awaited development belongs to Tahrir. It was the Tahrir uprising that brought about an Egyptian government more accountable to public opinion, and it was inevitable that an Egyptian government more accountable to public opinion would open Rafah, because public opinion in Egypt bitterly opposed Egyptian participation in the blockade on Gaza.

In addition, opening Rafah was a provision of the Fatah-Hamas reconciliation accord brokered by the Egyptian government -- an achievement facilitated by the fact that the post-Tahrir Egyptian government was more flexible in the negotiations with Hamas that led to the accord.

Mubarak had a deal with the U.S. government: I obey all your commands on the Israel-Palestine issue, and in exchange, you shut your mouth about human rights and democracy. Tahrir destroyed this bargain, because it forced the U.S. to open its mouth about human rights and democracy in Egypt, regardless of Egypt's stance on Israel-Palestine. When it became clear to Egypt's rulers that subservience to the U.S. on Israel-Palestine would no longer purchase carte blanche on human rights and democracy, there was no reason to slavishly toe the U.S. line on Israel-Palestine anymore.

The Mubarak regime also had a domestic motivation for enforcing the blockade: it saw Hamas as a sister organization of Egypt's then semi-illegal opposition Muslim Brotherhood, and it saw enforcing the blockade as a means of denying Hamas "legitimacy," figuring that more "legitimacy" for Hamas would mean more "legitimacy" for Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, thereby threatening Mubarak's iron grip on Egypt's politics.

But of course post-Tahrir developments in Egypt threw that calculation out the window: the post-Mubarak government in Egypt has reconciled with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is a de facto partner in the present interim government, and is expected to do well in September's parliamentary elections. It would be absurd for the Egyptian government to try to isolate the Muslim Brotherhood by trying to isolate its sister Hamas, when the Muslim Brotherhood is de facto part of the Egyptian government and the role of the Brotherhood in running Egypt is likely to increase.

There are other considerations. Egypt's government has seen how Turkey's influence in the region has grown dramatically as a result of its "no problems with neighbors" policy. Now Egypt is saying: "I'll have what she's having," and moving to normalize relationships in the region, just as Turkey has done.

The opening of the Rafah passenger crossing will mean that women, children, and the elderly from Gaza will be able to travel freely to Egypt and, through Egypt, almost anywhere else in the Arab world. Adult men will have to get Egyptian visas, a process that currently can take months.

But -- although it is virtually certain that some will try to claim otherwise -- the opening of Rafah does not mean that the siege of Gaza is over.

Rafah is a passenger crossing, not a cargo crossing, as AP noted in reporting on the opening of Rafah. Gaza's cargo crossings are still controlled by the Israeli government.

The Israeli human rights group Gisha reports that since 2005, "goods have not been permitted to pass via Rafah, except for humanitarian assistance which Egypt occasionally permits through Rafah."

In general, the Israeli government does not allow construction materials (cement, steel, and gravel) into Gaza. Since January, about 7 percent of what entered monthly prior to June 2007 has been allowed in for specific projects.

The Israeli government prevents regular travel for Palestinians between Gaza and the West Bank, even though according to the two-state solution which is the official policy of the U.S., Gaza and the West Bank are supposed to be one entity.

Exports from Gaza are generally prohibited by the Israeli authorities.

Palestinians in Gaza cannot farm their lands in Israel's self-declared "buffer zone" along the northern and eastern borders with Israel, estimated to contain nearly a third of Gaza's arable land.

The Israeli government does not allow Palestinian fishermen to fish beyond three nautical miles from Gaza, although under the Oslo Accord, they are supposed to be able to fish for 20 nautical miles from Gaza.

Thus, more pressure is needed on the Israeli government -- and the U.S. government, which enables Israeli policies in Gaza -- to lift the blockade.

And that's why it's so important that another international flotilla is sailing to Gaza in the third week of June, to protest the blockade. It's time to open all the crossings, not just Rafah.

Link
I could have written that! The only thing that I don;t totally agree with is that it was partly Obama's speech in Egypt on human rights that accelerated things. I am suspicious about one ting though to do with Wall Street, Muslim banking and the influence of China. But have to go out so I will try to research and piece it together later.
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  #47  
Old 31.05.2011, 19:46
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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How would you suggest Egyptians go about achieving this?
Egyptians should move away from Honour based society to a Respect based one.

Honour is a fragile things - which depends on flimsy things such as Hymens and dubious military "Achievements" and is the cause of much bloodshed and violence.

Honour evades those who actively seek it and can be taken away, Respect doesn't.

Once Egyptians respect themselves, their women and their neighbours they will be on the right track.
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  #48  
Old 31.05.2011, 19:56
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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Egyptians should move away from Honour based society to a Respect based one.

Honour is a fragile things - which depends on flimsy things such as Hymens and dubious military "Achievements" and is the cause of much bloodshed and violence.
As long as Israel continues to be the sole cause of all evil, the world remains a simple place because nobody else will ever need to accept any responsibility and under those conditions respect and initiative remain essentially meaningless concepts.

When the protests began I was happy because it showed people realising that they could control their own destiny rather than always blaming others (be it Israel, or evil dictators, or the colinial past or whatever other excuse lends itself). Now where has that spirit gone?
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  #49  
Old 31.05.2011, 23:31
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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Tokyo metro is well known also for all types of sexual harrasment like groping (chikan). The women only passenger car is not specific to Cairo.

But I guess there are some people who are addicted to arab/muslim bashing when they find the opportunity to do it.

Those cars are at night when men are drunk. hell in Switzerland they have parking spaces for women only that have cameras on them in parking garages.

That being said, you can't compare Japan to Egypt. I've lived in Japan, and have a friend working in Egypt, a good friend.

Japanese men don't harass women on the streets who are not "covered", they don't chase Western women down the street like they are raw meat, there are no honor killings in Japan, there is no forced arranged marriage in Japan. Japanese women are discriminated against from a Western perspective, but that's another topic, and I would argue some Japanese women do not want to live like what they see as the life of a Western woman, they are more traditional (on average).

That being said there is A LOT of daylight between the life of women in Egypt and Japan. A lot. Compare drunk Japanese men coming back from some company happy hour behaving badly to 100% sober Egyptian men hanging out on the streets in mid-day is not a very good comparison.
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  #50  
Old 31.05.2011, 23:35
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

Do you really think that western women are chased down the streets all over Egypt? Why is it such a popular holiday destination for western tourists?

Do western tourists like to harassed and chased down the street?
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  #51  
Old 31.05.2011, 23:45
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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Do you really think that western women are chased down the streets all over Egypt? Why is it such a popular holiday destination for western tourists?

Do western tourists like to harassed and chased down the street?
Something about pyramids...pretty much...and riding camels across the dunes...
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  #52  
Old 31.05.2011, 23:52
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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Something about pyramids...pretty much...and riding camels across the dunes...
Women get chased down the streets just so they can see some pyramids? I thought women had more self respect for themselves.
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  #53  
Old 01.06.2011, 00:03
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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As long as Israel continues to be the sole cause of all evil, the world remains a simple place because nobody else will ever need to accept any responsibility and under those conditions respect and initiative remain essentially meaningless concepts.

When the protests began I was happy because it showed people realising that they could control their own destiny rather than always blaming others (be it Israel, or evil dictators, or the colinial past or whatever other excuse lends itself). Now where has that spirit gone?
No one is putting the blame on Israel, it's the Israelis who need to mind their own business once and for all, that's it.
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  #54  
Old 01.06.2011, 01:10
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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(...)

That being said there is A LOT of daylight between the life of women in Egypt and Japan. A lot. Compare drunk Japanese men coming back from some company happy hour behaving badly to 100% sober Egyptian men hanging out on the streets in mid-day is not a very good comparison.
comparing all egyptian men to DSK or Clinton as sex obsessed depraved people is also not a very good comparison. Your story about men chasing western women as raw meat is simplistic if not just a sign of ignorance. Considering how some western men chase raw meat in Thailand, Dominican Republic, Kenya, Russian, Brasil and other sex tourism destination does not give any moral authority to judge others.
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  #55  
Old 01.06.2011, 01:14
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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comparing all egyptian men to DSK or Clinton as sex obsessed depraved people is also not a very good comparison. Your story about men chasing western women as raw meat is simplistic if not just a sign of ignorance. Considering how some western men chase raw meat in Thailand, Dominican Republic, Kenya, Russian, Brasil and other sex tourism destination does not give any moral authority to judge others.
I guess some people think these shameful act coming from Western men is acceptable as they're far more superior than Egyptians / Arabs
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  #56  
Old 01.06.2011, 04:00
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

in comparison to Libya and Syria there is little in the news about Bahrain.

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So far no Bahraini woman has reported being raped while in detention. Middle-aged men have reported being threatened with rape, and young men have reported being raped.

There is much, much more to this woman's story — details that simply cannot be divulged at this time. One of her relatives is still in jail, and she is terrified for her children.

Analysts in the region say this is the first time in the wave of protests sweeping the Arab world that large groups of women have been targeted for going against the government.

Bahraini human rights groups say hundreds of women have been detained in recent weeks. Most were released. Dozens are still being held. One female journalist reportedly was beaten so badly she can't walk. Authorities have vowed to investigate.
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/31/136818...ains-crackdown
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  #57  
Old 01.06.2011, 09:42
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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I guess some people think these shameful act coming from Western men is acceptable as they're far more superior than Egyptians / Arabs
You are only inferior if you think you are, nobody esle can make you feel inferior.

It is only acceptable in the Western media, Eastern media already portrays Westerners are decadents who are willing to bare and pimp their women for commercial benefit.

The unsaid fact about all these revolutions in Middle East and elsewhere is the people are actually pissed off with this imposed Western arrogance. For now they are going after the symbols of Western dominance i.e. imposed dictators. Soon they will be after the bases and the personnel too, will like a deja vu of Iranian revolution.

Money and well being is good, but to some people dignity and honour is more important and there comes a time when nothing else would matter. It would become all so easy especially for people who believe "God is the only master of their fate and nobody else"

Question for the West to think about is: Corrupt people from the East, when they get caught out, they flee towards the West and get asylum along with their wealth and live the rest of their life in luxury. Where would the corrupt Western leaders flee to? Hmmm... time to get Police State!
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Old 01.06.2011, 16:13
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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You are only inferior if you think you are, nobody esle can make you feel inferior.

It is only acceptable in the Western media, Eastern media already portrays Westerners are decadents who are willing to bare and pimp their women for commercial benefit.

The unsaid fact about all these revolutions in Middle East and elsewhere is the people are actually pissed off with this imposed Western arrogance. For now they are going after the symbols of Western dominance i.e. imposed dictators. Soon they will be after the bases and the personnel too, will like a deja vu of Iranian revolution.

Money and well being is good, but to some people dignity and honour is more important and there comes a time when nothing else would matter. It would become all so easy especially for people who believe "God is the only master of their fate and nobody else"

Question for the West to think about is: Corrupt people from the East, when they get caught out, they flee towards the West and get asylum along with their wealth and live the rest of their life in luxury. Where would the corrupt Western leaders flee to? Hmmm... time to get Police State!
here in the US so much is being publicized about the victims in Syria and Libya, the Syrian boy (Hamza) now has his own Facebook page and comment from Hilary Clinton. However there is hardly anything about Bahrain. This will cause mistrust and instability. The elephant in the room is Saudi Arabia and women's rights there.

In the meantime,western banks are losing business to Islamic banking. Even westerners are investing in Islamic banks because they believe them to be a safer option. Surely business follows the banks? Western businesses cannot afford to lose Saudi business. China may own much of the US but so does Saudi Arabia. China seemed to be building a string relationship with Qatar but now Qatar has ruled that they will only allow Muslim banks, not western bans that offer Muslim services. The Qatari national bank is doing well even Egypt is up

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EGYPT

* The measure .EGX30 gained 0.5 percent to 4,958 points.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74921B20110510

I am still trying to work this all out, but find it very interesting. Crimes against humanity occur in all countries, but the choice of which to publicize and which not is politically and business oriented.
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  #59  
Old 01.06.2011, 16:48
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

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In the meantime,western banks are losing business to Islamic banking. Even westerners are investing in Islamic banks because they believe them to be a safer option.
Isn't the very concept of islamic banking a misnomer because Islam does not allow interest to be charged and Islamic banks are using a devious constructs around that but at the core they're just putting the Western banking system with all its good points and bad in a perfumed burka and calling it an islamic banking sytem. Any reasonably aware Muslim can see through it.

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Surely business follows the banks? Western businesses cannot afford to lose Saudi business.
Tha's what they also said about Ghaddafi as they continued to kiss his feet while he was kicking them in the teeth. But things can change very quickly and today people do business with Ghaddafi at their own peril. The Saudi hegemony may not be as rock solid as it thinks either and their arrogance may yet turn around to haunt them.

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China may own much of the US but so does Saudi Arabia. China seemed to be building a string relationship with Qatar but now Qatar has ruled that they will only allow Muslim banks, not western bans that offer Muslim services. The Qatari national bank is doing well even Egypt is up.
If the Saudis think they can outsmart the Chinese they may have a surprise coming.
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Old 01.06.2011, 16:50
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Re: Women Victimized in Revolutions: a Tahrir Square Virginity Test Experience

Answering Hoppy is like expecting Mowvich to accept that Israel is not conspiring to steal the Nile from Egypt. useless.
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