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  #41  
Old 31.05.2011, 21:39
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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Sure, the cops may have gotten a bit rought but he was being a narcissistic a**hat. And a coward. Notice he didn't try to go dancing around the Vietnam Memorial.
you do realize that he was a Marine and served a tour (under whatever capacity)? which is more than i can say about myself.

As a former marine (him not me) i would think that the protest is both appropriate on a place meaningful for the freedom being infringed (as it seems that the judge ruling do not fall under "prior restraint").

The takedown was just wrong. I've seen this type of police work been done before, more grappling classes are needed to safely(for both policemen and suspect) subdue a subject.
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  #42  
Old 31.05.2011, 21:42
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

I'm in no way denying there aren't a few "bad apples". There are in every walk of life. In a public role, you're in the spotlight all the time, usually with an audience just waiting for you to mess up, but hey, after all they do volunteer to do the job, no one's forced them.

The problem with a role like that is, that in most situations you're "damned if you do, damned if you don't do something". By default, you're in the middle of 2 sides who want/need/expect different responses at the same instance (Not in your example, I admit)

The unfortunate thing is that that first experience you mention above will no doubt have provided you with a really bad impression that's hard to alter.
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  #43  
Old 31.05.2011, 22:06
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

I don't see why the police or servicemen need more respect than any normal person. Sure the job is tough but a lot of people's jobs are essential for our lives who get zip. Doctors, nurses....they get bugger all respect nowdays so its definitely not a police specific thing. And if every policemen and women are like the ones I know from my mates back home, they chose that job to gain respect, not to earn it. I know a bloke in the Australian army that goes out and fights in the ghan, risking his life and refuses to help his dying mother and sister who takes care of her.

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  #44  
Old 31.05.2011, 22:17
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

Of course they don't allow dancing!

Haven't y'all seen Footloose?
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  #45  
Old 31.05.2011, 23:20
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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right, between an american and a brit, it's the former with the chip.
Absolutely. Glad we can agree.

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  #46  
Old 01.06.2011, 07:15
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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i cud'nt believe this happened in US for dancing.
social media is a great tool for advocacy and for encouraging broad participation in causes, including the worldwide fight against corruption.
It didn't happen because they were dancing. It happened because they were deliberately causing a disturbance (to provoke a response) in a place where you're supposed to be quiet and respectful to other people.

As far as the US being a police state - that's a bit pathetic. Sure. People are regularly snatched from the streets in the US, taken to secret cellars to be raped, beaten and cattle prodded, and never seen or heard from again.

If the police have violated the rights of these protestors then I assume we'll see the next video of them in court being award huge amounts in damages?

As far as the police in general are concerned, I've had contact with the police in a number of countries. The worst was the UK - where there is a dumb kind of "I'm just doing my job according to how I'm measured". The best was here - after serious littering allegations. Where the police are absent, criminality and criminal gangs rule. I'd prefer the police, with all their faults, on the whole.
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  #47  
Old 01.06.2011, 08:45
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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I don't see why the police or servicemen need more respect than any normal person.
It is fairly simple actually. The police and/or servicemen while on active duty are actually representing the state/crown/government when performing their duties.

This means that they, as representatives of y/our government, are deserving of respect and also gives them the right, in effect, to order you around. It does, however, also mean that they are publicly (to some extent) accountable for their actions, and are usually judged more harshly than "civilians" when failing in their duties.

A simple example is when they don't follow procedure in an arrest and a criminal - who is guilty - gets off on a technicality because the officer didn't do x, y or z, before, during or after the arrest.
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  #48  
Old 01.06.2011, 09:34
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

Mods have to do something when people are trolling Jefferson's memorial.
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  #49  
Old 01.06.2011, 11:08
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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It is fairly simple actually. The police and/or servicemen while on active duty are actually representing the state/crown/government when performing their duties.

This means that they, as representatives of y/our government, are deserving of respect and also gives them the right, in effect, to order you around. It does, however, also mean that they are publicly (to some extent) accountable for their actions, and are usually judged more harshly than "civilians" when failing in their duties.

A simple example is when they don't follow procedure in an arrest and a criminal - who is guilty - gets off on a technicality because the officer didn't do x, y or z, before, during or after the arrest.
Of course, I'm not discounting they have an important role to play and are heavily scrutinised. But none of what you described deserves anyMORE respect to a normal citizen. And as I mentioned before, doctors have an equally difficult public job to work and can get sued and jailed for difficult situations as well. Part of this "I want more respect that a normal citizen" act is part of the reason why there are bad apples imo

For example, I deal with people on face value (obviously this can be difficult at times, i can be judgemental at times I suppose). If someone (ie. a policeman) is being rude to me for no particular reason in the name of their job, then they deserve my respect? Ive met a few cops who are perfectly able to deal with people in a perfectly civil manner, but they all seem to be a little older. I have the feeling that the way they are trained nowdays has a lot to do with it.
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Old 01.06.2011, 11:40
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

At least we still can dance at swiss , even the police will protect us to get very serious dance !
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  #51  
Old 01.06.2011, 11:54
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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At least we still can dance at swiss , even the police will protect us to get very serious dance !
Switzerland
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  #52  
Old 01.06.2011, 12:14
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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Of course, I'm not discounting they have an important role to play and are heavily scrutinised. But none of what you described deserves anyMORE respect to a normal citizen.
Either we just simply disagree or you missed my point. Active/on duty police officers are not "normal" citizens - they are the executive or active (if you will) arm of the government/law, as such act with the full (in theory!) weight of the government behind them. That is not the case for Drs/nurses/firemen etc.

If an officer tells you to move, then theoretically they don't need to explain themselves - they have it in their power to make a judgement and ask you to act (e.g. if there is a bomb, or traffic issue etc.) and you are required to comply. They can, if they deem it required, shoot you. Now that is an extreme example, for sure, and there are all sorts of protocols and reviews in place to stop this from happening randomly, but the point is that they have this power.

The theory is that with such power comes responsibility and respect from the citizenry (on the basis that only "special/responsible" people should have such power). Now, we can debate whether all officers - i.e. the individuals involved - are indeed worthy of "respect", but the position itself, IMO, remains an important one, which is worthy of respect.

Much like, so I've heard, ridiculing the office of the President of the USA is a no-no, but ridiculing the individual Presidents is fair game.
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  #53  
Old 01.06.2011, 13:32
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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At least we still can dance at swiss , even the police will protect us to get very serious dance !
oh yeah?

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/culture/...ml?cid=7330700
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  #54  
Old 01.06.2011, 14:24
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

I agree that *some* cops are pigs, but I think the guys in the video got precisely the response they were hoping for (from the cops). I even noticed that one of the "dancers" was wearing a t-shirt that simply said "DISOBEY," which seems incredibly immature to me. It reminds me of kids I went to high school with that claimed to hate authority but never really had much of anything intelligent to say to back up their stance. They just seemed to think it was "cool" to despise authority.

This video seems like just another lame publicity stunt to me. And what's worse is that they didn't even seem to be protesting against anything in particular. And if they were, they should have made it more apparent.
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Old 02.06.2011, 12:41
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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[COLOR=black]
The theory is that with such power comes responsibility and respect from the citizenry (on the basis that only "special/responsible" people should have such power). Now, we can debate whether all officers - i.e. the individuals involved - are indeed worthy of "respect", but the position itself, IMO, remains an important one, which is worthy of respect.
Yeah I'll disagree with you (each to their own experiences I guess).

I guess my main gripe is that a job which requires very little prior expertise or intelligence (i.e. any man and his dog is allowed to do it) gets a higher amount of respect that they actually deserve (imo obviously), proportional to other "normal" citizens. Just because they hold positions in so-called "dangerous or important jobs". Its a massive cop out (pun unintended). I've always believed that everyone has something that they are talented at, and they should pursue that path. Doesn't matter what job you do and what power you hold, you should respect that individual. \end rant
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  #56  
Old 02.06.2011, 13:00
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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Yeah I'll disagree with you (each to their own experiences I guess).

I guess my main gripe is that a job which requires very little prior expertise or intelligence (i.e. any man and his dog is allowed to do it) gets a higher amount of respect that they actually deserve (imo obviously), proportional to other "normal" citizens. Just because they hold positions in so-called "dangerous or important jobs". Its a massive cop out (pun unintended). I've always believed that everyone has something that they are talented at, and they should pursue that path. Doesn't matter what job you do and what power you hold, you should respect that individual. \end rant

I realize that I'm probably completely missing your beef but... when was the last time you saw rampant video of a doctor, a teacher, a nurse, a dentist, a..a..a..... you get the point... to the same extent you see videos of police officers behaving in a way that seems to be contrary to their directive?

When was the last time you saw people purposefully going into a doctor's office, or to their dentist, or to their school principal, or, or or or... to the same extent we see examples of people purposefully behaving in ways which are near guaranteed to provoke police / peace officers?

I think the problem is that (some) people seem to respect police LESS than the others because they know there will be some uproar about the officers seeming to behave poorly. People purposefully provoke them in order to cause such a scene.

What I mean to say, isn't that people who behave thus "deserve" to have whatever the police care to dish out but rather that the police deserve to be viewed without prejudice because we KNOW, especially now, that some people DO go out of their way to provoke such a response... and keep at it until they get it.

In this way, I believe you (and those idiots who are "dancing" at the Jefferson Memorial) are failing to give the police the respect that they
deserve. Even further, the citizens of your community deserve your respect and among the ways to show that you respect your community is to respect the folks who uphold the law and keep the peace.
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  #57  
Old 02.06.2011, 13:13
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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I realize that I'm probably completely missing your beef but... when was the last time you saw rampant video of a doctor, a teacher, a nurse, a dentist, a..a..a..... you get the point... to the same extent you see videos of police officers behaving in a way that seems to be contrary to their directive?
Been in a court room recently? Doctors can get sued for the most ridiculous things that a lot of the time have no bearing on their standard of care. Nurses get attacked all the time in hospital ERs and yeah hear bugger all about it. Its not just cops who get the bum rap

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What I mean to say, isn't that people who behave thus "deserve" to have whatever the police care to dish out but rather that the police deserve to be viewed without prejudice because we KNOW, especially now, that some people DO go out of their way to provoke such a response... and keep at it until they get it.
Completely agree. The police need as much respect as everyone and if someone provokes them (which yes is against the law) or commits crimes then I have no problem with their actions. Its their job.

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In this way, I believe you (and those idiots who are "dancing" at the Jefferson Memorial) are failing to give the police the respect that they
deserve. Even further, the citizens of your community deserve your respect and among the ways to show that you respect your community is to respect the folks who uphold the law and keep the peace.
How am I not respecting the police? I said I respect EVERYONE in the community. Im respecting EVERYONE regardless of if they are a cop or not. I have not even said whether I agree with the actions of the cops or whatever the hell the inital post was about. Tbh I havent even seen the video. I was replying to a point made earlier and thus explaining my point in latter posts
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  #58  
Old 02.06.2011, 13:22
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

If it is disrespectful to dance, hug and kiss at such a monument, isn't also disrespectful to wear shorts??
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Old 02.06.2011, 13:38
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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Been in a court room recently? Doctors can get sued for the most ridiculous things that a lot of the time have no bearing on their standard of care. Nurses get attacked all the time in hospital ERs and yeah hear bugger all about it. Its not just cops who get the bum rap
I do not dispute that doctors and nurses (and everyone else, in their own way) have problems with people treating them poorly and filing suits for various reasons, BUT how often have you heard of a group of people purposefully going to a doctor's office in order to cause trouble? Most times I can think of people doing anything like that it is folks who are in the pro- or anti-abortion groups at clinics in which the procedure is either performed or vehemently refused.

People don't sue doctors or cause them grief "just because"... they do it because they feel like they were somehow wronged themselves.


I'm sorry for the rest, for I had somehow misunderstood you to be down on the police for some reason. They have a tough job, they are sometimes intentionally provoked by people who wouldn't have any problem killing them, themselves or someone else. They have bad days and good days, just like you or I or even Dr. Smith. The difference is that usually if we (or Dr. Smith) is having a bad day, some idiot doesn't record it and post it on the internet, conveniently cut / edited to show us in the worst way possible, as if we're behaving poorly toward an "innocent" bystander.



AbFab... what does wearing shorts have to do with it? AFAIK there isn't a "dress code" posted on that monument, but I believe there is some indication of what sort of behavior is expected.

As that and many other monuments (around the world) tend to be visited while folks are on vacation, I'd be surprised to see folks dressing up as if they were going to a funeral when they visit it. I dunno about you but I certainly dress "comfortably" when I'm traipsing around a city looking at historical points of interest.
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Old 02.06.2011, 14:56
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Re: Arrested for dancing, hugging and kissing....in the US!!

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AbFab... what does wearing shorts have to do with it? AFAIK there isn't a "dress code" posted on that monument, but I believe there is some indication of what sort of behavior is expected.

As that and many other monuments (around the world) tend to be visited while folks are on vacation, I'd be surprised to see folks dressing up as if they were going to a funeral when they visit it. I dunno about you but I certainly dress "comfortably" when I'm traipsing around a city looking at historical points of interest.
Oh dear. The police were in shorts - that was my point...
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