Americans: Foreigners who want to talk politics - boring, annoying or harmless? - Page 11

st2lemans · #**201** 31.08.2011, 13:58

	Quote:	hoppy
	every time my daughter picks up a copy of Cosmo I groan

I would too.

Playboy is much better!

Tom

#**202** 31.08.2011, 15:24

	Quote:	st2lemans
	I would too. Playboy is much better! Tom

I thought it was Playgirl for the ladies?

#**203** 31.08.2011, 15:36

[QUOTE=ARandomUsername;1321742]

	Quote:
	Maybe. Stats? I can only give you one data point, which is that my wife, who does roughly the same job as I do, earns significantly more. And it really doesn't matter to me.

There are seven posts after my post- all by men 6 critiquing my post. On thanks from a woman, Nil- thank you Nil

If you want statistics here

	Quote:
	Even today, 30 years after the principle of equality of men and women was enshrined in the constitution, women earn on average 20 per cent less than men with the same qualifications.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=30457844

The women's demonstration in July on equal pay obviously didn't register with you.

	Quote:
	Men would hate to be treated like sex objects, I'm sure. Right guys?

I think so:

Sex For Tuition: Gay Male College Students Using ‘Sugar Daddies' To Pay Off Loan Debt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_938155.html

bigblue2 · #**204** 31.08.2011, 15:38

shouldn't you be cooking your husbands dinner now?

#**205** 31.08.2011, 15:46

	Quote:	bigblue2
	shouldn't you be cooking your husbands dinner now?

He likes to cook, I pressure washed the deck yesterday, now after a Dr annual check-up, I have to repaint it, while he goes bike riding.

Anyway, sorry for taking the topic of track.

I wasn't sure where to ut this but if you are interested in the US operation in anti-terrorism, this is interesting, I hope it isn't blocked in CH.

'The man who knew'

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ows/knew/view/

simon_ch · #**206** 31.08.2011, 16:05

That's not statistics Hoppy, that's just a poorly researched newspaper article. It disregards actual work experience (not just qualifications) and time spent at work, hence the big difference. As as far as I know most salary differences come from too a shallow look at qualifications (only formal requirements like education), but I am more than happy to be proven wrong.

amogles · #**207** 31.08.2011, 16:32

	Quote:	Peg A
	I think it's unfair to lump Saudi Arabian culture all into one pile. Not everyone is the same, not everyone is accepting of what we hear about what goes on there. Do the women have the same freedoms we do? No, but our women also do not have the same protections either.

Often overprotection, however well intentioned, can be an impediment to freedom.

#**208** 31.08.2011, 16:35

	Quote:	simon_ch
	That's not statistics Hoppy, that's just a poorly researched newspaper article. It disregards actual work experience (not just qualifications) and time spent at work, hence the big difference. As as far as I know most salary differences come from too a shallow look at qualifications (only formal requirements like education), but I am more than happy to be proven wrong.

I'm in a hurry, have to go out in, the meantime will this do?

	Quote:
	According to Save the Children, in 2010 women in the United States earned, on average, 62% of what men earned, a ratio that makes the United States tied for fifty-sixth (with Switzerland) in that category. Mozambique ranks first, with women earning 90% of what men earned.

http://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/...in-womens-pay/

#**209** 31.08.2011, 16:41

[QUOTE=hoppy;1322044]

	Quote:	ARandomUsername
	There are seven posts after my post- all by men 6 critiquing my post.

Good grief

	Quote:
	If you want statistics here http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=30457844

Thanks. Not sure if it's true or not, it's only a claim by swissinfo as opposed to any kind of independent study, but if the claims are true then I'm rather shocked but not really surprised. And as has been pointed out, basing the claim (or indeed salary) purely on qualifications isn't really ideal.

	Quote:
	The women's demonstration in July on equal pay obviously didn't register with you.

No. Why would it? People are constantly moaning about one thing or another.

	Quote:
	I think so: Sex For Tuition: Gay Male College Students Using ‘Sugar Daddies' To Pay Off Loan Debt http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_938155.html

I'll look at that at home, if you don't mind. I'm not sure why male prostitution is news though.

amogles · #**210** 31.08.2011, 16:42

	Quote:	hoppy
	As a woman I am now at an age where I will no longer be considered promarily as a sex object, at first I feared that I would be on the scrapheap, but now I find it so liberating, I am free-er and happier than I ever was before.

Judging by the degree to which you repeat that statement and the general pent-up anger that emanates from your posts, I have some doubt as to the accuracy of that statement.

amogles · #**211** 31.08.2011, 16:45

	Quote:	simon_ch
	That's not statistics Hoppy, that's just a poorly researched newspaper article..

you mean to suggest there are other types of articles on Swissinfo?

simon_ch · #**212** 31.08.2011, 16:56

	Quote:	hoppy
	I'm in a hurry, have to go out in, the meantime will this do? http://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/...in-womens-pay/

No sorry, that won't do.

There is no question that men earn more than women. But if men work more, are more career-, money driven and constitute the largest amount of business owners, inventors then that's due to choice and preferences and entirely up to the men/women themselves.

But if, and that's the real question, women with equal qualifications, work experience, track records and time spent working earn significantly less across all sectors it really is a problem and institutionalised inequality, but for that I am yet in need of statistics.
The only women in my company (v large) that earn less than men for the same position are the ones who disregarded my advice to barter for higher salaries, but anectotal evidence isn't worth much anyway.

#**213** 31.08.2011, 20:28

	Quote:	amogles
	Judging by the degree to which you repeat that statement and the general pent-up anger that emanates from your posts, I have some doubt as to the accuracy of that statement.

It is funny that when women become assertive they are accused of irrational anger, that time of the month, menopausal hormones, hysteria etc. In Iran women get assertive and sometimes angry, but it is not seen as unfeminine. I guess they like their women feisty
My husband loves it, whenever anything needs sorting it out he sends me in as his attack dog. It didn't go down well in Switzerland though, they always wanted to talk to the man of the house.

I just upset a medical waiting room full of people because I had the receptionist talk to the insurance company on the phone to prove that they were trying to bill me for co-payments when there was no co-payment. Before the calls I announced to the whole waiting -room what I was doing to apologize beforehand if I raised my voice above the level of the TV, but as the receptionist left me with no other option this is what I would have to do. Consequently after the receptionist admitted their mistake, those waiting phoned their insurance companies.

Actually, I've mellowed somewhat and yes I am happy, very happy, honestly

Now a randomamuser
thougth that it would be OK for him to post this:

	Quote:
	Men would hate to be treated like sex objects, I'm sure. Right guys?

But not for me to post this in response

	Quote:
	Sex For Tuition: Gay Male College Students Using ‘Sugar Daddies' To Pay Off Loan Debt http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_938155.html

This reminds me of a party I once held about 20 years ago, where the guys were talking about women n a sexually derogatory way, so I asked if they would like to see some really hot naked bodies. They all started guffawing with excitement; kind of a male bonding thing. So I threw them my sister's collection of Playgirl, which they pounced on with eager until they realized what they really were.

#**214** 31.08.2011, 20:45

	Quote:	simon_ch
	No sorry, that won't do. There is no question that men earn more than women. But if men work more, are more career-, money driven and constitute the largest amount of business owners, inventors then that's due to choice and preferences and entirely up to the men/women themselves. But if, and that's the real question, women with equal qualifications, work experience, track records and time spent working earn significantly less across all sectors it really is a problem and institutionalised inequality, but for that I am yet in need of statistics. The only women in my company (v large) that earn less than men for the same position are the ones who disregarded my advice to barter for higher salaries, but anectotal evidence isn't worth much anyway.

WEll this is the situation

	Quote:
	Even where organisations value the contribution women make, norms and customs may mean that skilled, female employees are not paid as much as their male counterparts (Dex et al 2000). From across Europe there is evidence of within occupation pay differentials in jobs from painters (Clarke et al 2005:168) to solicitors (Wass and McNabb 2005).

And this is what is being done in Switzerland:

	Quote:
	They have to show that the wage differentials in their firms are due to “objective” factors like education, vocational skills etc. and not a result of discrimination. Given that a firm has an unexplained gender wage gap of more than 5% (which is the limit which was defined as there is always some imprecision), the Federal Office may advise the firm to investigate further the factors which contribute to the wage gap, or may exclude the firm from the tender process and future contracts etc. This instrument has been in use since 2005, it was modified several times and is actively used by the Swiss authorities. The Equal EGGE – European Network of Experts on Employment and Gender Equality issues– Fondazione Giacomo Brodolini 15 Opportunities Office of Switzerland is entitled to do the analysis for the Federal Office for Public Procurement. The wider implementation of the LOGIB system in Germany is currently under discussion. Whereas the German Ministry for family, seniors, women and youth wants to keep the instrument voluntary in order to make firms sensitive towards gender wage gaps, the German Minister for labour and social affairs is working for a solution more like that in Switzerland, which means using the Federal regulations on public procurement to strengthen the legal obligations. The Minister wants to create a Federal office responsible for equal pay within the Federal agency for anti-discrimination which could use the LOGIB-instrument, and the right for work councils to collect all information about wages and pay components and to demand the use of LOGIB. However, this approach is planned in conjunction with other measures and the minister points to the fact, that the wage gap due to low wages in certain sectors and industries needs to be tackled by a minimum-wage regulation. Author: Friederike Maier (German Expert to the EGGE Network)

http://www.lex.unict.it/eurolabor/do..._gap_Feb10.pdf

So they admit it exists, but they are trying to address it.

#**215** 31.08.2011, 21:24

WTF has any of this feminist bollocks got to do with the thread?

#**216** 31.08.2011, 21:46

	Quote:
	WTF has any of this feminist bollocks got to do with the thread?

Feminist issues are highly political! Tick a box:

Americans: How do you feel when foreigners want to discuss politics with you?
It's nice that they are interested, and I welcome the opportunity to talk about my country.
I find it ill-mannered and annoying.
I find it amusing, and rather enjoy baiting them.
I tolerate it with good humour, although I'd rather talk about other things.

marton · #**217** 29.09.2011, 23:29

Oh dear, cannot help laughing - Ah Michele Bachmann – here's a clip of her blaming the "Arab spring" on Barack Obama because of his undermining of Israel.

Of course he did make this statement some months after the Arab Spring had already started.....

marton · #**218** 06.10.2011, 21:57

oh well that is a relief
"Sarah Palin finally admits she will not run for the White House in 2012, effectively ending her career as a political contender"

But I guess most people were expecting this.

#**219** 12.10.2011, 12:26

What do you do when American visitors insist on talking about politics!

a/ tell you that Sarah Palin is the bee's knees and a great candidate with very clever ideas- but just a bit loud and has a slightly unfortunate turn of phrase

b/ that Obama is absolutely and totally responsible for the current crisis - irrespective of the fact said crisis is affecting most of the developed world.

c/ and then tell you that Obamination (their choice of name) is a Muslim and not born in Hawai at all - and is a terrorist plant to destroy the US. I'd reea that **** before, but they ACTUALLY believe that to be true and hope he and his wife and family will soon be bumped off so SP can take over and miraculously put the country and the economy back in ship shape in no time.

Russkov · #**220** 12.10.2011, 12:31

I'm surprised people like that actually travel.