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Old 22.06.2011, 13:36
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Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

A Lufthansa jumbo jet speeding toward takeoff was forced to a screeching halt on a Kennedy Airport runway to avoid a catastrophic collision with an EgyptAir plane that made a wrong turn into its path, sources told The Post.

"Cancel take off! Cancel take off plans!" yelled a frightened air controller who saw that the Munich-bound Lufthansa Airbus A340 was headed toward a collision with an Egypt Air Boeing 777 at around 6:50 p.m. Monday.

"Lufthansa 411 heavy is rejecting takeoff," the pilot radioed back.


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Old 22.06.2011, 13:54
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

Lucky escape . . .
Actually an aborted take-off is one of, if not THE highest stress/load imparted on an aircraft structure.

Reminds me of my emergency stop - during my driving test . . . I wonder if the pilot said to the co-pilot `Now, when I tap my clipboard on the console, I want you to . . . `
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Old 22.06.2011, 13:59
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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Lucky escape . . .
Actually an aborted take-off is one of, if not THE highest stress/load imparted on an aircraft structure.

Reminds me of my emergency stop - during my driving test . . . I wonder if the pilot said to the co-pilot `Now, when I tap my clipboard on the console, I want you to . . . `
...imagine a small Egyptair jet has run out onto the runway in front of you...
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Old 22.06.2011, 14:18
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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...imagine a small Egyptair jet has run out onto the runway in front of you...
A 777 is not that small
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Old 22.06.2011, 14:27
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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A 777 is not that small
Well I guess it does not matter if it was a big jet, small jet or just an airport vehicle (that has happened before!) - the procedure is the same and the pilots are trained for it - just not very pleasant for the passengers . . who would be all belted up in any case.
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Old 22.06.2011, 14:35
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

Just remember, the world's deadliest airline disaster (excluding 11/9) happened on the runway.

Wikipedia reference-linkTenerife_disaster
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Old 22.06.2011, 14:45
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

....and . . what is your point?

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Just remember, the world's deadliest airline disaster (excluding 11/9) happened on the runway.

Wikipedia reference-linkTenerife_disaster
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Old 22.06.2011, 14:53
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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....and . . what is your point?
That just because a plane is still on the ground, doesn't mean that should a disaster occur, it'll be any less deadly than if it were 10 miles up.
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Old 22.06.2011, 15:04
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

That is true - but in this case the correct procedure was carried out and no-one was hurt.
Look, I will tell you what probably happened –
There was an unfortunate mistake (happens all the time) resulting in an aircraft either due to ground control error or pilot error, straying onto a runway as another aircraft was coming in to land.
It seems that the correct emergency procedure was successfully carried out and no-one was hurt.

Now, on that aircraft the passengers would not have known it was coming – unlike a long out of control fatal dive to the ground during which they would endure the ultimate terror.
In this case, as they were safely strapped in (except those tw*ts who think aircraft cabin safety does not apply to them) and would have suddenly been subject to extreme braking forces and possibly loud reverse thrusting noise.
The average take off speed of a 747 (all depends on loading of course) is about 180mph.
Source - http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/performance/q0088.shtml


There may be a small amount of passengers who were mildly traumatized at the time (and they will `get over it` to coin that stupid EF phrase) but most of them will proudly tell their mates `I was involved in an aborted take-off`.
The crew will be proud that they successfully carried out the emergency procedure and will benefit from the experience of the `real thing`.
Their fellow pilots will benefit from their experience too, as they will report it as a near miss.

The aircraft and engine manufacturers may get useful recorded data analyzing stresses to the aircraft structure and engine components.

It was an unfortunate near miss . . and everyone is okay . . oder?

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That just because a plane is still on the ground, doesn't mean that should a disaster occur, it'll be any less deadly than if it were 10 miles up.
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Old 22.06.2011, 15:07
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

If that is the case is the plane then grounded for checks or is it back to the end of the queue and take off as normal?

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Actually an aborted take-off is one of, if not THE highest stress/load imparted on an aircraft structure.
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Old 22.06.2011, 15:38
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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If that is the case is the plane then grounded for checks or is it back to the end of the queue and take off as normal?
If the aborted take-off is due to a warning signal on the aircraft or another failure on that aircraft - then it`s disembarkment of passengers and back to the hangar.
In this case, as it was due to outside influences, then I would think it would be a full pre-flight check and then a new take-off slot - but then I am only assuming that.
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Old 22.06.2011, 17:35
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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If that is the case is the plane then grounded for checks or is it back to the end of the queue and take off as normal?
The answer is - it depends on the nature of the rejection. If the rejection is based on minor technical glitches (or other planes intruding, or ATC ordering a reject), and once off the runway the glitches are solved then the crew is allowed to perform another take-off, sans pre-flight, taking into account the brake cooling period. This provided of course the fuse plugs on the tires haven't melted and the plane can still move on its own.

If it's a major glitch (engine vibration, loss of hydraulics etc etc) then it's back to gate and everybody off.

I don't think you get anywhere near 2.5g deceleration in an RTO, but I might be wrong...
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Old 22.06.2011, 18:02
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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If that is the case is the plane then grounded for checks or is it back to the end of the queue and take off as normal?
Agree with Shorrick`s better than mine explanation.
Regarding the high stresses incurred due to this incident - well aircraft structures, like cars, are designed with safety factors and just as a car enduring an emergency stop procedure - that would be the highest loads (short of impact damage) that the aircraft would expect to see during standard flight cycles (of which aborted take-off is one that is considered during load calculations).
So although it`s high, it does not mean that it`s on the limit and so it would not necessarily entail structural ground checks.
For other aircraft that are designed to fly extreme flight cycles (like military or stunt aircraft) then the stresses from steep in-flight turns would be considerably higher . . . but then they are designed for that!.
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Old 22.06.2011, 18:40
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Re: Lufthansa & Egypt Air near miss at JFK

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If that is the case is the plane then grounded for checks or is it back to the end of the queue and take off as normal?
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The Airbus A340 vacated the runway at taxiway H. The crew reported hot brakes and had the brakes checked out by emergency services.

....

The Lufthansa A340 was able to depart again about 2 hours later and reached Munich with a delay of 1:45 hours. The Egyptair B777 departed New York about 75 minutes later and reached Cairo with a delay of 40 minutes
http://avherald.com/h?article=43e82b1d&opt=0
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