Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 28.06.2011, 14:18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 56
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
azurboy has made some interesting contributions
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

There's a lot of noise around Greece, and they're in big trouble, but looking at the numbers and the magnitude, when the US get into the spotlight....


Greece USA GDP/capita 27,844 47,275 Pop 11m 308m Public debt 470bn 14000bn Budget def -35bn -1294bn unemp 16.20% 9.10%


Debt/capita 42k 45k Deficit/Capita 3.2k 4.2k
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 28.06.2011, 14:24
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,712
Groaned at 118 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 2,140 Times in 942 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

To be fair it is not just the US but most of Europe. If I ran my household finances in the same manner I would probably be locked up. I'm not hopeful that anything will change for the good in the short term.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 28.06.2011, 14:26
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zrich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,180 Times in 738 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

The US needs a fiscal conservative who is socially liberal. The cuts
are going to be painful at times, but they are necessary for long-term
prosperity.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank HollidayG for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 28.06.2011, 14:50
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,540
Groaned at 204 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
The American debt has always been growing and people have always been predicting that something bad was going to happen. Since then it has continued to grow and the predictions have also continued. Today the debt is still growing and guess what? People are predicting something nasty is going to happen

Some time back in the 1970s, Richard Feynmann said:

There are 10^11 stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But its only a hundred billion. Its less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers.

So you are in denial
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:45
Lejoker's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 576
Groaned at 20 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Lejoker has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
There's a lot of noise around Greece, and they're in big trouble, but looking at the numbers and the magnitude, when the US get into the spotlight....


Greece USA GDP/capita 27,844 47,275 Pop 11m 308m Public debt 470bn 14000bn Budget def -35bn -1294bn unemp 16.20% 9.10%


Debt/capita 42k 45k Deficit/Capita 3.2k 4.2k
US, Japan, Canada, Australia, Nigeria etc can monetize; Greece cannot. It has no control over its monetary policy whatsoever.

Last edited by Lejoker; 28.06.2011 at 16:30.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:46
Lejoker's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 576
Groaned at 20 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Lejoker has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
The US needs a fiscal conservative who is socially liberal. The cuts
are going to be painful at times, but they are necessary for long-term
prosperity.
US needs VAT coupled with some serious austerity measures & that big deficit will go away.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:58
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
Seriously?! I'd love that! Where do you get the corn syrup/molasses? My recipe needs those...maybe I can also steal your recipe?
Corn syrup. Really? I don't the the whoopie pie inventors used corn syrup & don't use it for anything! I'll look up my recipe & send it to you. I'm in BOS now. Do you want me to send you anything? with in reason. I'm not sending you a pottery barn couch! :P

Quote:
View Post
US needs VAT coupled with some serious austerity measures & that big deficit will go away.
And they also need to raise income tax on the rich, stop some of the ridiculous subsidies to big business & plug the loop holes that allows corporations to send their profits overseas and not get taxed.

Mostly they really need to re-haul the system. But as was said way above, politicians are only worried about getting reelected and not fixing anything. There is some serious myopia in the US.
__________________
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 28.06.2011, 18:15
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
Corn syrup. Really? I don't the the whoopie pie inventors used corn syrup & don't use it for anything! I'll look up my recipe & send it to you. I'm in BOS now. Do you want me to send you anything? with in reason. I'm not sending you a pottery barn couch! :P
It's for the marshmallow creme as I make that myself instead of using marshmallow fluff (which also isn't around these parts...is it?). It's from Two Fat Cats in Portland. Face-stuffingly good. I imagine the pumpkin with cream cheese filling in the autumn will be much easier to make.

I would love a nice cool breeze off the Cape right about now. I'm more of a C&B kinda home furnishings girl. You are lovely to offer, though, thank you.

Quote:
View Post
And they also need to raise income tax on the rich, stop some of the ridiculous subsidies to big business & plug the loop holes that allows corporations to send their profits overseas and not get taxed.

Mostly they really need to re-haul the system. But as was said way above, politicians are only worried about getting reelected and not fixing anything. There is some serious myopia in the US.
I figured we were f-ed when SNL started in with scathing humour on Obama less than 1 year into his term. It's all more of the same and all it seems any of them are doing is lining their pockets and securing their parachutes. It makes me worry that if the bottom falls out if there will be some serious violence. Crazy times.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank poptart for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 28.06.2011, 18:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

It is not just the USA that is screwed but Western Europe as well.

It is not a case of your US person being in "Denial" but more a case of being ignorant and not giving a hoot until it effects them personally.
I see most younger people more concerned about their Iphone4/Android/Smartphone and their Facebook accounts than what is really going on.
They do not realise that there will be no pension or health care for them when they need it in about 20 years time.

They don't see that China, is in effect, becoming an empire by putting their country customers into debt with them (USA and Western Europe) and moving into continents (Africa etc) to extract their resources for their benefit and control of the world.
If the West thinks that it can just invent and design things and get China to make them for next to nothing; it has huge problems coming.
The Chinese are becoming great innovators themselves and the USA cannot keep up with them but instead use their services even in their own country:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ped-to-US.html
Chinas next economic move will be to buy some Western Brands in order to market its own products as those brands.

China doesn't give a hoot about patents, copyright and thee will always be customers willing to buy their copies:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/8...-tells-PM.html

If the West think they can survive in the long term playing Financial Markets which is basically what they have been doing for the last 20 years then the Chinese correctly can ridicule them. The Chinese are quite capable of manipulating the markets themselves as their government has been printing their own money for years as well and that is the reason that they were able to screw the USA so fast. Bought commodities/raw materials in US dollars, printed their own money to pay the workers to make finished goods export/sale to the West that they would never be able to compete against obviously. The West virtually stopped manufacturing preferring to buy cheap but always improving Chinese goods.

The West may as well learn Mandarin and get ready to work (be slaves) to the Chinese and it could be argued that we deserve it.
__________________
I do not have friends..........I have contingent liabilities
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Cashboy for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 28.06.2011, 19:15
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,650 Times in 18,688 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Despite being born and raised in New England, and having lived there for half my life, I have never had (nor seen) a Whoopie Pie, and even had to look up what it is!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 28.06.2011, 19:33
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,712
Groaned at 118 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 2,140 Times in 942 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Considering the thread has moved on to discuss whoopie pies I guess it proves the point. Denial it is then.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank nigelr for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 28.06.2011, 20:39
Cbass's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 130
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 149 Times in 71 Posts
Cbass is considered knowledgeableCbass is considered knowledgeableCbass is considered knowledgeable
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

By the way excellent article from the BBC. I read it yesterday and it really got me thinking about the US debt crises, since I currently live in the US. The article touched on some subjects that I think are very important in analyzing the US debt situation.

One issue that the article does leave out are state debt liabilities. Many states (California, New York, Illinois, New Jersey) have extremely high debt liabilities with additional debt to be added on because of entitlements, state pension liabilities and social spending programs (Medicaid) issued by the state that will be incurred in the future. State debt is held separately from federal debt and in some states (New York) the state government has created governmental authorities and municipalities that have the capability of issuing their own debt that is held separately from state debt.

The consequences of paying off the interest of this debt have been increased regulations that trigger more taxes, force smaller businesses out of the state, and decreased budget allocations for educational purposes, heath care and security(police etc). I write interest because many states are constantly refinancing their debt pushing maturity further down the line. In addition, most of the states with higher debt figures suffer from some of the highest unemployment figures (California). While states try to combat high unemployment they are scaring away businesses through high rates of taxation and are instead dolling out increased social welfare program expenditures that keep the unemployed barely above water financially. Obviously this is not a sustainable model of governance.

Politically, within many of the states there are a lot of big promises that are made during each campaign with regard to fixing the budget deficit, but a lot of the ideas get bogged down in political debate that often result in some sort of compromise by both parties that includes a lot of earmarks and does not appropriately address the problem. This has been a problem on the federal level as well. (example Obama extending estate tax cuts in order to gain continued unemployment insurance).

Although the state deficits in each respective state pale in comparison to the overall federal deficit what makes me particularly worried about the state and federal debt situation is how engrained debt has become as part of governmental policy. When politicians and policy makers face a fiscal problem they do not want or know how to deal with they just issue more debt, leaving the future generation on the hook. There is no institution that meaningfully controls how debt is spent in this country.

For a breakdown in who owns US federal debt please see: http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_..._Debt?slide=16

Last edited by Cbass; 28.06.2011 at 21:16. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Cbass for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 28.06.2011, 21:09
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
Despite being born and raised in New England, and having lived there for half my life, I have never had (nor seen) a Whoopie Pie, and even had to look up what it is!

Tom
What, was your mom a tree hugger or something? They even have them at Whole Foods these days.... It's like the world's most perfect food for kids as it is two cake-like cookies with a marshmallow filling between them. Freshly baked, there are few more perfect treats on earth. I made a gingerbread version with a gingered filling last christmas and I made a lot of friends. It's both the form and the function that make them so incredible.

And, yes, Yanks are in denial about the debt as, I think if everyone really understood what was going on, there'd be rioting in most of the major coastal cities.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 28.06.2011, 21:30
Lejoker's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 576
Groaned at 20 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Lejoker has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
Mostly they really need to re-haul the system. But as was said way above, politicians are only worried about getting reelected and not fixing anything. There is some serious myopia in the US.
Nicely put. The current US tax system is unsustainable.

Quote:
View Post
It is not just the USA that is screwed but Western Europe as well.
Sadly, Japan makes the list too; they have been reckless with their finances for the past 20 yrs.
The best performing economies in my opinion? Gulf countries i.e. oil producers. They earn X amount of $$, spend way less, borrow none, and end up with surpluses. Their governments invest their savings & so do their individuals who also save & reinvest...
But I guess it'll get to them one day, you'll see Kuwaitis borrowing money from the bank to buy laptops, ipods & ipads they don't need.

Quote:
View Post
Despite being born and raised in New England, and having lived there for half my life, I have never had (nor seen) a Whoopie Pie, and even had to look up what it is!

Tom
Same here, what on earth is a whoopie pie??
__________________
a m'est gal
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 28.06.2011, 21:35
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,650 Times in 18,688 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
What, was your mom a tree hugger or something?
Hardly, I guess they just never made it to CT or VT.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

It has a lot to do with declining tax revenues on the richest (1%) Americans. I tend to agree with Robert Reich on this.



As for the rest of it, I don't know if people are in denial, I know a lot of people are scared because the middle class seems to be dissappearing. Politicians are pontificating rather than working together - this is a real dissappointment to me. Buch of losers on both sides - but who wants to be a politican? And the uS is spending too much money on defense abroad, leaving not enough money for infrastructure and social programs....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:28
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
Hardly, I guess they just never made it to CT or VT.

Tom
Wow, maybe we need to have a whoopie pie party or something. The only thing that would make them more perfect is if they came on a stick.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
Wow, maybe we need to have a whoopie pie party or something. The only thing that would make them more perfect is if they came on a stick.
Or with whoopie cushions.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 29.06.2011, 05:14
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
It's for the marshmallow creme as I make that myself instead of using marshmallow fluff (which also isn't around these parts...is it?).

You don't need corn syrup. You can use sugar syrup which is sugar and water. But if you really want corn syrup you can get it at American Market or you can use golden syrup at the British market or you can use glucose which you can get at the Asian stores. I use sugar and water unless I have golden syrup around.


Quote:
View Post
Despite being born and raised in New England, and having lived there for half my life, I have never had (nor seen) a Whoopie Pie, and even had to look up what it is!

Tom
Apparently it's a MA & PA Amish thing.



As for the debt issue (must stay on topic) my last comment on this is "Let them eat whoopie pies".

Last edited by miniMia; 29.06.2011 at 05:28.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 29.06.2011, 09:50
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Quote:
View Post
The best performing economies in my opinion? Gulf countries i.e. oil producers. They earn X amount of $$, spend way less, borrow none, and end up with surpluses. Their governments invest their savings & so do their individuals who also save & reinvest...
It's maybe easier to balance a budget in a police state where leaders are not accountable to their people and the police can lock up and torture dissidents. The absence of a free press is very convenient for a government that likes to sweep things under the carpet. Many of the Gulf oiligarchies may have a shock coming as they move to proper democracy.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turkish politician fined over genocide denial Pashosh Swiss politics/news 38 26.03.2010 15:41
Supplemental Insurance Denial India Insurance 11 22.09.2008 17:41
Debt in UK jq957 Finance/banking/taxation 15 17.07.2008 05:18
Appealing Permit Denial English Teacher Permits/visas/government 13 03.02.2007 19:06


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0